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Tort and contract actions are private law actions, through which only unlawful (i.e., illegal) acts or omissions can result in a judgment. If you did not violate the law, you cannot be held liable.

Please tell me you are not an attorney, or that you have tremendous malpractice coverage. Which law do I violate when I contract to sell you my car, for adequate consideration, and then breach the contract by selling it to your friend instead. For ease, you can assume that this takes place in any jurisdiction you are familiar with. Please, cite the relevant law. Hint: you're going to throw back a common law PRINCIPLE of contracts. It does NOT presuppose violation of a law, it is a principle under the law of k's.

To end this discussion on my end, this argument broke out of terminology. It is INCORRECT to say that a breaching party in a contract has broken the law. You can't just SAY it does, as no case in American jurisprudence goes so far as to say that. Are you just making up your own rules of guilt. Breaking a law = possibility of prosecution. Violating a contract = liability. Two very, very different concepts. One who is "liable" to someone doesn't "break a law." What law exists to govern jailbreaking iPhones or messing with pre-release software? if it was "illegal" to do so, guess what - NO NEED FOR THE DAMN NDA'S, IS THERE?
 
Now that I think of it, Apple didn't fight the EULA with Psystar, which was surprising. So Matticus, it must be that current EULA's are rather difficult to defend, as Apple would surely have gone for it.

As much as I like the legal discussion (I actually learned something, thanks zlonghorn and matticus), can we get back to breaking 2.0 firmware, which I hope is imminent so I can get my cheaper iphone from elsewhere than Belgium ;)
 
can we get back to breaking 2.0 firmware, which I hope is imminent so I can get my cheaper iphone from elsewhere than Belgium ;)

Sorry, get carried away sometimes. Waiting in line at the Apple store all day will hit a few nerves...

9to5mac.com posted this: http://9to5mac.com/iphone_unlocked

I'm just gonna wait for their tool to be available. Don't anticipate it should be long. Probably a few days at the most or someone else will beat them to it.
 

+2

No matter how much you guys argue (enlightening arguments by the way) hacking efforts will continue. It may not be as mainstream as it was but it will be there

If you unlocked your phone using pwnage you can easily upgrade to 2.0 by ctrl-loading the firmware in iTunes. Works like a charm with no problems. Of course you will no longer be unlocked but you can always revert with pwnage. But please bear this in mind: I did this with a pwnage unlocked phone using 1.1.4. I have no idea about other unlocking methods and I strongly suspect they will not work as well.

BTW I am running yesterdays 2.0 firmware and it works like a charm. And I already encountered activations errors and timeouts yesterday before today's deluge so I suspect their were buggy software issues and not just load issues.

Clarify do you have a legit AT&T iPhone tariff? because i'm curious to how the phone got activated or even worked after you used pwnage
 
Jailbreaking will get you screwed over in the end
just as a warning.


its just a waste of time now.

you will end up with effin bricks.
dont bother and enjoy the new 2.0 firmware.
 
However, where in first year contracts is a contract held to be analgous with law?
Open a first year contracts textbook to page 1. Read it. I happen to have Summers and Hillman handy. Let's see what it says:

"Among the types of law to be studied here are judge-made common law, statutes adopted by legislatures, and regulations made by administrators. Officials make all of these types of law. But most of the law in this field is not made by officials. It is made by private parties (with or without the aid of lawyers), and consists of the terms of their agreements, express and implied."

Contracts are law. The rest of your nonsensical post (not to mention the laughable ad hominem) therefore falls apart entirely. Still, for those reading the thread with interest, here goes.
It has the FORCE of law, you are correct, and is BOUND by law. HOWEVER, it is NOT law.
You do realize that what you just said is an impossible construction, I hope. If it has the force of law and is legally binding, it is, by definition, law.
Laws, by their definition, have to be passed by a body with the authority to do so.
Statutes must be passed by a duly authorized body. Law is much broader, encompassing statutes, common law, constitutional law, private law, and administrative law.
Please, tell me WHICH law breaking an NDA with Apple violates.
The law of contract. See e.g. Valco Cincinnati, Inc. v. N & D Machining Service, Inc., 24 Ohio St.3d 41, 48 (1986).
Another hint - if you can't come back with a SPECIFIC law (cite to the specific law, it HAS to be published and passed by a body if it is a law), it is a PRINCIPLE OF CONTRACTS.
A "PRINCIPLE OF CONTRACTS" is law. If it weren't, no court of law could apply it.
Courts hold that a defendant is "liable for breach of contract." Not breach of any specific law.
Naturally, because there is not necessarily a statute to cite. The law forbids a breach of an agreement. Illegal, as defined by Black's, 8th: "illegal, adj. Forbidden by law; unlawful". Not limited to: criminal, in violation of a statute, or any of the other bizarre concepts you advance.

In order to get damages, there must be an injury ("The violation of another's legal right, for which the law provides a remedy; a wrong or injustice.")--an injury requires an unlawful act. If you can't demonstrate an unlawful act on the part of the defendant, you are ineligible for any remedy at law--most importantly, damages.
Which law do I violate when I contract to sell you my car, for adequate consideration, and then breach the contract by selling it to your friend instead.
The law of contracts. It's not complicated.
What law exists to govern jailbreaking iPhones or messing with pre-release software? if it was "illegal" to do so, guess what - NO NEED FOR THE DAMN NDA'S, IS THERE?
You seem to be lost. The NDA exists to create legally-binding rules on the use of the software not present in statutory law. That's the whole point of the law of contracts.

Breach of contract is breach of a legal duty. It is ipso facto unlawful to breach a legal duty.

I'll call your bluff. Send me a Westlaw URL to anything that speaks to the contrary.
 
this is **** i cant wait for all off you to have nice apple BRICKS!

can no one appreciate the hard work people put into a product! and people wonder why networks are charging so much!:mad::mad::mad:

They will charge what they want anyways. Its competition.
 
It's funny watching these exchanges. I keep thinking of Dungeons and Dragons and character alignments and how so-called "Lawful Good" or even "Lawful Neutral" and "Lawful Evil" characters behave. They stick to "LAWS" regardless of morality, ethics or whom passed the laws, whether they're just laws or even representative laws in a country that supposedly espouses a representative form of government. The latter half of those three alignments represent the 'morality' or 'ethical' nature of a character (as opposed to the prefix which may also be either Neutral or Chaotic Good or Evil or just plain Neutral). The idea is that pretty much all beings can be described to generally fit into one of those alignment categories.

Here, I see one or more persons going on and on about 'laws' without ANY regard to whether those laws apply to someone's given country on here or not or whether or not such laws are just or even ethical or constitute fair representation (i.e. Were constituents consulted or were laws passed to favor lobbyists spending coin in an official's direction?) These considerations mean absolutely ZERO to someone of a "lawful" nature because a law can be perfectly EVIL in nature and it MUST be obeyed in their eyes.

On the other side, I see people arguing for purely self-interests (neutral evil) or against stupid laws that make little sense (neutral good). To them, laws should only be followed if deemed worthy of following, whether for all (good) or self (evil).

Finally, you have the chaotic categories which are unpredictable or overly emotional behavior whether of a good or evil sort. Fans (or the more common Mac term 'fan-boy') and even trolls all fit into this category.

The problem with all this is that none of these groups intrinsically agree with each other so they're going to be prone to argument. You'll virtually NEVER get someone of a Neutral Good alignment to agree (truthfully in nature at least) to follow a bad law, for example and you'll never convince a lawful person (whether good or evil) that laws should be disregarded if they're bad or unfair because to them, LAW (no matter whom made it; all the matters is they consider themselves UNDER it) is paramount and everyone and everything that doesn't follow that law is by definition a CRIMINAL, whether right or wrong ethically because NO ONE is ABOVE the law, no matter how ridiculous that law might be. They believe the laws must be changed, not disregarded, even if it's almost impossible to change those laws due to circumstances or a total lack of caring on lawmakers part to do anything about them.

Basically, I'm saying these arguments are trite because you can't win an argument when one side couldn't care less about a law, only ethics and the other side couldn't care less about ethics, only laws and the two are definitely not mutually exclusive.
 
Yeah! Lets all cheer the criminals who have no regard for Apple's intellectual property or the work put in by their staff. Hooray for flauting the law because you don't agree with it! I think speed limits are stupid too, i think i'll go drive 100 on the free way, look at me, i'm a hero! Whoo!

Jailbreaking is not even anywhere near breaking the law. This is an apple forum, your just pissed cause someone passed your slow american car. Germany is more efficient thanks to their autobahn maybe america should learn from them. Speed limits don't do anything.

by the way it's Flaunting.***

Ignorant people everywhere.
 
Yes... it is. It breaks the EULA with both AT&T and Apple. :mad:

It is virtually impossible to enforce a/an EULA. It is also not illegal to break it. A/an EULA is not a legal binding contract.

Finality of situation:

Unlocking is against AT&T's wishes, but is not illegal under the DMCA.
Jailbreaking is against Apple's EULA, but is not illegal.
Unlocking is formally against Apple's wishes, but it only matters because of AT&T's exclusivity.
Jailbreaking has little effect on AT&T (beyond VOIP), and thus they have no control over it.

Also, screw AT&T. Apple only stops it to keep up relations with the Phone Borg. Apple personally couldn't care less about AT&T; they're just a vehicle.
 
The app store doesn't have at some of the games I want. Poddle, iPhysics, and Parking Lot, so I'll be jailbreaking to get those.
 
It's not against the law to unlock a phone. At least in my country.

According to the DMCA, Apple could sue the jailbreaker authors if they SELL the app. Plus I think it's illegal to jailbreak your own device under that law.,
 
I'm not worried about the value of my old iphone selling on ebay. The new 3G only works under 3G networks. The old iPhone unlocked to use 2.0 will make it worth more than iphones still using 1.1.4 unlocked.

This is a good day for first gen iphones!

The above statement is simply untrue. The 3g MUST work in EDGE or AT&T couldn't sell it to MOST of the U.S.
 
What has happened to this thread

Jeeeeez! I came here to read about how to upgrade a jailbroken phone, not read an argument between a bunch of tards that have the constitution embroidered into their underpants argue with the people that actually belong in this forum....:mad:
 
Wasn't it Shakespeare who wrote .....

" First we kill all the lawyers .... "

In todays digital world that should be appended with .....

" ... and those pretending to be lawyers on internet forums ".

Now let's get back to freeing up IPnoe 2.0 for all the free people in the world!!!
 
Yeah, this isn't a forum for legal discussion on jailbreaking.

I tried to use pwnage 1.1 last night, and discovered it just errors out with some kind of "unrecognized format" error when it tries to open up a copy of the release 2.0 firmware in .ipsw format.

But it sounds like at least someone here is saying, if you first run pwnage on 1.14 firmware on your rev. 1 iPhone to get its boot-loader on there, and jailbreak said 1.14 firmware, THEN you can just let iTunes do a regular upgrade to firmware 2.0 and it will STAY jailbroken?


Jeeeeez! I came here to read about how to upgrade a jailbroken phone, not read an argument between a bunch of tards that have the constitution embroidered into their underpants argue with the people that actually belong in this forum....:mad:
 
Carrier name change on iPhone 3G

So on my first jailbroken iPhone, I used one of ericas apps to change my carrier logo from "AT&T" to "Verizon" :rolleyes: (obviously the phone was running on the AT&T network.

I backed it up and then used the backup to transfer to my new 3G iphone.

Well, wouldn't you know, none of the apps transferred, as exected, BUT the carrier still reads "verizon" .

So this might be interesting to a few, butnow I have no way of changing it !!!
 
Jailbreaking will get you screwed over in the end
just as a warning.


its just a waste of time now.

you will end up with effin bricks.
dont bother and enjoy the new 2.0 firmware.

Enlighten me, what will brick it?

I want to enjoy the new 2.0 firmware, but I'm still contracted to Orange and don't want to break that contract and have to pay the rest of my term (c.7 months of payments).
I want to access my company's exchange server and I will contribute to apple and its legitimate developers by buying apps. But I also want to still use open source software, a Terminal and keep my current provider too.

pwnage won't brick your iPhone, as long as you follow the instructions and use the right firmware ipsw. Apple wont brick it, if they do they are breaking the law themselves, that must amount to criminal damage.
 
It is virtually impossible to enforce a/an EULA. It is also not illegal to break it. A/an EULA is not a legal binding contract.
More than two decades of law disagrees with you on all three points.

Jailbreaking itself is not illegal. Depending on the means used and the indivuduals involved, a particular method of jailbreaking may be illegal under the DMCA, the UTSA, or the UCC. Individuals and companies have been sued successfully thousands of times for these violations, but it is a matter of interest of the rightsholder whether they choose to pursue it.

Apple is not likely to pursue individual users--they have no reason to and nothing to gain from doing so. They already deny warranty coverage to those who do not use the product as delivered to them; anything further would not be worth the time and money. They respond to exploits by patching their software, which results in mutual benefit. The developers are not selling iPhones or selling modifications as a business entity, and even if they were, the revenue would not be worth the cost in chasing, since the community largely rejects the sale of unlocks and applications.

Do not confuse lack of incentive to prosecute with lack of ability.
 
I tried to use pwnage 1.1 last night, and discovered it just errors out with some kind of "unrecognized format" error when it tries to open up a copy of the release 2.0 firmware in .ipsw format.

But it sounds like at least someone here is saying, if you first run pwnage on 1.14 firmware on your rev. 1 iPhone to get its boot-loader on there, and jailbreak said 1.14 firmware, THEN you can just let iTunes do a regular upgrade to firmware 2.0 and it will STAY jailbroken?

I'd like clarity on this as well
 
Tell me again, what is the point of jailbreaking 2.0? We now have official apps, its available in most countries and with some through multiple carriers, and T-Mobile in the states is even worse than AT&T. Its not like you can take your iPhone to verizon or Sprint.

also so that i can use my 1st gen iphone (at&T) in Canada under rogers and still have acces to the app store and such....
 
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