iPhone 4 Antenna Issue - If we fuel it, they will come. Cha-ching.

[Geckotek]

Just to answer a couple of comments directed at myself.

1) Yes attenuation is the issue and yes it is a limitation of all devices which relying on RF. I have bolded the section which really relates to the issue here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attenuation



Your hand is essentially a “Material” in that context.

Almost correct, attenuation is ONE of the issues and all phones suffer from it. It doesn't often cause dropped calls, but can.

As exhibited with the Samsung Galaxy S, it can be achieve with your finger.

Although that’s not really the issue in my opinion, it’s that if you use the iPhone in a manner which means your hand covers the left side of the phone you can cause attenutation (Affecting left handed people most, by simply holding it how they normally would). This is something which can be replicated with most mobile phones, as this is the limitation of the technology available.

Incorrect, the issue you describe here is detuning. The reason there are 3 breaks that are not equidistant is that there is some major science behind the length and resistance of an antenna. When that antenna is encased in plastic inside the phone, it's performance is not degraded by detuning, only by attenuation. BUT, when you place the antenna outside the phone as exposed metal, you have just made it highly susceptible to detuning (as well as attenuation) by contact with human skin.

While a portion of this has been blown slightly out of proportion, the detuning aspect has not at all. In areas where AT&T signal is already low, detuning is a big issue and will cause dropped calls. Or, as I experienced Sunday, my friends were unable to surf the web until I told them "don't hold it like that".

I'm not a fanboy and I'm not an iPhone hater. But anybody that denies the existence of this issue that is (for the most part) unique to the iPhone 4 is completely blind. It seems that there may be other new phones like the Galaxy S that suffer from detuning. If that is the case, it needs to be addressed.

At the very least, every manufacturer will now be thoroughly testing for detuning going forward.

 

[harcosparky]

Here's the bottom line, for those who are impaired. You just don't built a phone with a metal antenna that can be de-tuned just by holding the phone.

It's a design flaw that anyone with common sense and half a cell can understand. Get over yourself.

I'm betting that RF Design Engineering with an emphasis on Microwave isn't in your background!

 

[AndyDel]

I read the entire thing, but I must admit the post sort of rambles on. It was a decent read, but just how you are mentioning that Engadget, Gizmodo, and all these other Tech-News websites are biased and have impartial ideologies you are contradicting yourself because you have proposed that you are all for Apple in a transparent manner.

If you wanted for people to agree with you, then you would have had to have some against Apple as well, rather than having every point you have displayed scrutinize the journalists.

Once again, just my opinion.



And may I ask, which post did you read? Cause those are the Cliff Notes to a different story, pale.

Problem is my issue is with the journalists and their approach to the situation, not the issue itself. Reason why i started my post as i did.

Does the iPhone 4 have attenuation issues? Yes
Do most other phones exhibit the same behavior? Yes
Is this a well known limitation of technology available today? Yes

Nothing above is in dispute, the problem is that while it’s an issue for the iPhone 4.. It’s been an issue for mobiles phones for years.

So then it becomes about the media over stepping the mark, dosing the story in petrol to fuel traffic and ultimately generate a higher profile which will lead to increased revenue. Then also to perhaps settle the story, against a company who is pretty smug when it comes to it’s products. Whether Apple are arrogant, smug or just the devil reincarnate. It doesn’t mean the context of the issue should change to suit a bent journalists agenda.

That’s not what I want to see in news, that attitude has generally been considered what’s killed the reputation of news.

 

[Geckotek]

Does the iPhone 4 have attenuation issues? Yes
Do most other phones exhibit the same behavior? Yes
Is this a well known limitation of technology available today? Yes

Nothing above is in dispute, the problem is that while it’s an issue for the iPhone 4.. It’s been an issue for mobiles phones for years.

Once again, your problem is that you are not telling the whole story.

Does the iPhone 4 have detuning issues? Yes
Do most other phones exhibit the same behaviour? No (although it seems the Galaxy S may)

 

[samcraig]

I think you’re missing the point somewhat.

...

I haven't missed anything. Apple got caught. And whether or not other companies have the same issue doesn't matter. They DIDN'T get caught.

And it's very easy to blame the media. You're not the first or last. But the media didn't create the issue. They didn't fire back responses to customers and issue a public letter stating there wasn't an issue. They initially JUST reported that an issue existed. Then it spiraled.

You want to blame the media - go ahead. But they didn't act in a bubble. The media didn't fabricate any story.

Analogy - a pizza place has a rat problem. There are people who write into the paper and call their local tv station to complain. When the customers ask the pizza place what they are going to do about their rat problem - they say "it's not a problem. and all restaurants have rat problems."

Then the press goes after this restaurant. You want to suggest they are being unfair? That they should report both sides? What's the other side. The restaurant has a rat problem. A problem they know of yet want to shove it off as being a non issue.

Is the media responsible for showcasing every restaurant that has a rat problem in the interest of fairness? No.

Apple's worst enemy here was none other than Apple.

 

[AndyDel]

Almost correct, attenuation is ONE of the issues and all phones suffer from it. It doesn't often cause dropped calls, but can.

Incorrect, the issue you describe here is detuning. The reason there are 3 breaks that are not equidistant is that there is some major science behind the length and resistance of an antenna. When that antenna is encased in plastic inside the phone, it's performance is not degraded by detuning, only by attenuation. BUT, when you place the antenna outside the phone as exposed metal, you have just made it highly susceptible to detuning (as well as attenuation) by contact with human skin.

While a portion of this has been blown slightly out of proportion, the detuning aspect has not at all. In areas where AT&T signal is already low, detuning is a big issue and will cause dropped calls. Or, as I experienced Sunday, my friends were unable to surf the web until I told them "don't hold it like that".

I'm not a fanboy and I'm not an iPhone hater. But anybody that denies the existence of this issue that is (for the most part) unique to the iPhone 4 is completely blind. It seems that there may be other new phones like the Galaxy S that suffer from detuning. If that is the case, it needs to be addressed.

At the very least, every manufacturer will now be thoroughly testing for detuning going forward.

Attenuation or Detuning - Regardless of which is more to blame or how what causes more impact than the other, that really isn't the point i'm making or even the issue itself.

Heres the issue.

- Person A grabs iPhone with his left hand
- Person A drops a call
- Person A decides to use a Samsung Galaxy S
- Person A drops a call

Whether it's attenuation or detuning that causes the call to drop, it's irrelevant. It's that the called dropped, since both phones exhibit the same behaviour the cause is your hand and the effect is the dropped called.. While the problem may be deeper than that when coming to a solution, it's makes no different to the user whether attenuation or detuning did it.

Although i'm not an expert on attenuation or detuning, i've seen no research done by anyone to accurately pin-point the impact of either on the iPhone. What i have seen though is a handful of current top end smartplaces behaving in the same way as the iPhone 4, and since that's the issue itself.. It seems rather pointless arguing over attenuation or detuning.

Separate to all that, my post was made to discuss not the issue itself but the part sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and TechRadar played in fiasco.

 

[samcraig]

Separate to all that, my post was made to discuss not the issue itself but the part sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and TechRadar played in fiasco.

You mean fiasco for Apple. Like I wrote above - Apple played it's part. They are not an innocent here. But again - blame the media. Clearly you think they are 100 percent to blame.

 

[Reluctant Adept]

Apple created a phone that has a design flaw which affects everyday performance and use.

Apple refuses to make good on fixing the design flaw and uses deflection to say they are not to blame.

Cute. So if I can get everyone upset about the fact that their cars stop running if they don't put gas in them, can we just call that a design flaw and demand that the auto industry fix it?

It's not a design flaw, it's a design constraint. The physical laws of the universe prevent anyone creating a device that is unaffected by the problems everyone is complaining about and somehow want Apple to magically fix.

 

[dmorris01]

I'm betting that RF Design Engineering with an emphasis on Microwave isn't in your background!

No, it's high power FM transmission. But if we were betting, you'd win.

I'm betting your background is fanboy?

You don't have to be an "RF Design Engineer with an emphasis on Microwave" to understand the issue. Similarly, you don't have to be a real estate agent to sell a house. Or a master chef to bake a cake.

 

[AndyDel]

You mean fiasco for Apple. Like I wrote above - Apple played it's part. They are not an innocent here. But again - blame the media. Clearly you think they are 100 percent to blame.

Poor analogy mate, since the limitation of owning a restaurant is not rats.

I think the Reluctant Adept puts the point across well

It's not a design flaw, it's a design constraint. The physical laws of the universe prevent anyone creating a device that is unaffected by the problems everyone is complaining about and somehow want Apple to magically fix.

I blame certain areas of the media for not approaching the situation fairly, impartially and giving a balanced view. Which has caused it to snow ball into an issue fair greater than it should of been, equally resulting in a loss of their journalistic integrity.

 

[Geckotek]

Attenuation or Detuning - Regardless of which is more to blame or how what causes more impact than the other, that really isn't the point i'm making or even the issue itself.

Heres the issue.

- Person A grabs iPhone with his left hand
- Person A drops a call
- Person A decides to use a Samsung Galaxy S
- Person A drops a call

Whether it's attenuation or detuning that causes the call to drop, it's irrelevant. It's that the called dropped, since both phones exhibit the same behaviour the cause is your hand and the effect is the dropped called.. While the problem may be deeper than that when coming to a solution, it's makes no different to the user whether attenuation or detuning did.

Although i'm not an expert on attenuation or detuning, i've seen no research done by anyone to accurately pin-point the impact of either on the iPhone. What i have seen though is a handful of current top end smartplaces behaving in the same way as the iPhone 4, and since that's the issue itself.. It seems rather pointless arguing over attenuation or detuning.

Separate to all that, my post was made to discuss not the issue itself but the part sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and TechRadar played in fiasco.

Wait....you said it happens to "most mobile phones" and now you are just listing the Galaxy S? Which is it? Most or just the iPhone and Galaxy S?

You've seen no research? Because you haven't looked for it. Let me help you with that. Here's an article from a well known antenna expert:
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/7/14/iphone-4-meets-the-gripofdeathinator.html

The part that these news agencies and blogs have played is to bring attention to the detuning issue that is causing people to drop calls. They are forcing the manufacturers to look more critically into this problem. Doesn't matter if more phones that just the iPhone 4 have the issue, attention needs to be raised and the issue needs to be addressed. Who cares if IN YOUR OPINION it got a little overblown.

you don't have to be a real estate agent to sell a house.

Actually, in some states you do.

 

[samcraig]

Poor analogy mate, since the limitation of owning a restaurant is not rats.

I think the Reluctant Adept puts the point across well



I blame certain areas of the media for not approaching the situation fairly, impartially and giving a balanced view. Which has caused it to snow ball into an issue fair greater than it should of been, equally resulting in a loss of their journalistic integrity.

Was Apple fair in their response? I ask honestly. At BEST they were honest by omission. They said it was a non issue. The fact is - as stated by themselves - that it is an issue - shared by many smart phones.

It might be a design constraint vs flaw. But Apple's design is a great catalyst of the constraint. They exploited it beyond other companies. That's why people are saying it's a flaw.

They DID try to circumvent physics. They also tried to deny that the laws even existed UNTIL they were caught.

You want to blame the media - yet we are all the wiser for what was uncovered, no?

 

[Jack Dangers]

Separate to all that, my post was made to discuss not the issue itself but the part sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and TechRadar played in fiasco.

I definitely got your point, it was very will written might I add.
It was really much to do about nothing, and unfortunately it got momentum during a slow news cycle.
I tend to agree that Apple and Co. botched this in a PR sense, but honestly it was blogs with axes to grind that harped on this issue for whatever reason (revenge, site hits, not to appear as an apple fansite). It really started to gather steam once the financial media started reporting on this with their "experts" saying a recall was imminent. There was a lot of manipulation going on last week in anticipation of today's earnings call.
Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the line between opionion (blogs) and and actual news reporting is blurring. I blame the 24hr news cycle and that rush to break the news first without fact checking (balloon boy).

 

[Geckotek]

Regarding the fact that Apple has taken the brunt of the bad media, let's look at this objectively.

Which phone has the largest world-wide sales?
Which phone with an exposed antenna was released first?
Which company denied that there was an issue at all?
Which company constantly gets the most press coverage?

So I'd expect that as other phones like the Galaxy S exhibit issues, the media will pick up on this. BUT, let's face it, Apple is the 800 pound gorilla and along with that comes the focus of the press....be it good or bad.

 

[dagomike]

Apple just wants it both ways. It wants countless million of free advertising/marketing for its announcements, but to wants be ignored when they screw up.

There is no fiasco. Apple built a system of hype via secrecy and limited access for covering and reading about the company. That knife cuts both ways and Apple needs to stop crying about it. Maybe next time it should just issue a press statement instead of putting on a media event.

 

[samcraig]

Apple just wants it both ways. It wants countless million of free advertising/marketing for its announcements, but to wants be ignored when they screw up.

There is no fiasco. Apple built a system of hype via secrecy and limited access for covering and reading about the company. That knife cuts both ways and Apple needs to stop crying about it. Maybe next time it should just issue a press statement instead of putting on a media event.

Agreed

 

[Geckotek]

I definitely got your point, it was very will written might I add.
It was really much to do about nothing, and unfortunately it got momentum during a slow news cycle.

Yeah, nothing else in the world going on....such as a major oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico, US troops dying in Afghanistan, Russian spies exposed in the US, 102 dead in Pakistan bombing....yeah...slow news cycle.

I tend to agree that Apple and Co. botched this in a PR sense, but honestly it was blogs with axes to grind that harped on this issue for whatever reason (revenge, site hits, not to appear as an apple fansite). It really started to gather steam once the financial media started reporting on this with their "experts" saying a recall was imminent. There was a lot of manipulation going on last week in anticipation of today's earnings call.
Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the line between opionion (blogs) and and actual news reporting is blurring. I blame the 24hr news cycle and that rush to break the news first without fact checking (balloon boy).

Axes to grind? Except for the arguable Gizmodo (I don't think they have an axe to grind, I think they accept that they took a risk and put themselves in the situation they currently find themselves in) who do you think has an axe to grind and why????

I'll admit that some fact-checking seems to be going out the window, but the this antenna issue has been sufficiently documented.

 

[samcraig]

And BOY does that Consumer Reports have an Axe to grind!!! WOW!

 

[Brazzan]

Although i'm not an expert on attenuation or detuning, i've seen no research done by anyone to accurately pin-point the impact of either on the iPhone.

Let me help you out then: AnandTech have published detailed signal loss information for a variety of test conditions.

Separate to all that, my post was made to discuss not the issue itself but the part sites like Engadget, Gizmodo and TechRadar played in fiasco.

The thing is, your original post relied on the theory that all phones have similar problems, from which you concluded that it was unfair to single out the iPhone 4.

That simply isn't so. Whilst all phones suffer from attenuation issues to an extent when the antenna is covered, the iPhone 4's problems are much worse than usual. For example, the IPhone 4 has a 20 dB signal loss , compared to the 2dB on the 3GS. For those who aren't familiar with dB, they're on a logarithmic scale, so this means the problem with the iPhone 4 is approximately 60 times worse than it is on the 3GS.

 

[Bluehinder]

Fancy yourself as a journalist? all I read throughout this post was "fan boy, fan boy, fan boy".

Tru dat.

 

[dagomike]

That simply isn't so. Whilst all phones suffer from attenuation issues to an extent when the antenna is covered, the iPhone 4's problems are much worse than usual. For example, the IPhone 4 has a 20 dB signal loss , compared to the 2dB on the 3GS. For those who aren't familiar with dB, they're on a logarithmic scale, so this means the problem with the iPhone 4 is approximately 60 times worse than it is on the 3GS.

Not only that, but the iPhone 4 antenna weakness is so localized, casual interaction with skin can kill the transmission. If the user doesn't quickly remove the contact, the call drops.

That's the difference between attenuation with the body with other phones and what we're seeing with the iPhone 4.

 

[Coukos34]

This unfortunately is not the case, to the point where it’s been proven otherwise by many people on youtube and other community members determined to do their own research. It’s just a shame we couldn’t rely on news outlets to be as principled and vigilant.

Sorry I don't agree. All those others are gripped around a certain area of the cellphone, not lightly touched by a finger. Funny how jobs wasn't able to show us that same behavior on another smartphone. I see you try to use big words to try and make your point somehow more valid. Doesn't work when you don't know what your talking about....

 

[i hate phones]

Cute. So if I can get everyone upset about the fact that their cars stop running if they don't put gas in them, can we just call that a design flaw and demand that the auto industry fix it?

It's not a design flaw, it's a design constraint. The physical laws of the universe prevent anyone creating a device that is unaffected by the problems everyone is complaining about and somehow want Apple to magically fix.

i'm sure you could if stepping on the middle of the gas pedal restricted the gas flow.

 

[Coukos34]

i'm sure you could if stepping on the middle of the gas pedal restricted the gas flow.

Good analogy

 

[AndyDel]

Wait....you said it happens to "most mobile phones" and now you are just listing the Galaxy S? Which is it? Most or just the iPhone and Galaxy S?

You've seen no research? Because you haven't looked for it. Let me help you with that. Here's an article from a well known antenna expert:
http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/7/14/iphone-4-meets-the-gripofdeathinator.html

The part that these news agencies and blogs have played is to bring attention to the detuning issue that is causing people to drop calls. They are forcing the manufacturers to look more critically into this problem. Doesn't matter if more phones that just the iPhone 4 have the issue, attention needs to be raised and the issue needs to be addressed. Who cares if IN YOUR OPINION it got a little overblown.

I wanted some time to read the article you posted, so back after loading up on some steak and creamy pepper sauced cooked by the wife. Trust me, when you're married to a vegetarian, steak is like winning the lottery and losing your virginity all over again.

I see no direct coloration made between "Attenuation" or "Retuning" - it's not even mentioned. It's simply stated as "touch sensitivity" - seeing a reduction in signal strength using a half grip and full grip.. Both types of grips have been illustrated to same the same signal reduction in most mobile devices.

Then you have the results of an iPhone 4 with a bumper - this only illustrates that RF travel better through plastic than they do directly through your hand. Leaving a slight gap to lessen the affects of the attenuation. I can see the point you're trying to make but i also see other mobile phones experiencing the same issues just the same.

Granted, i'm no expert on mobile antenna technology. Then again, even the expert in the article admites the flaws in his testing process. So until i see something concrete and tested in a controlled environment, i still feel this is a discussion best left until that time. Since i myself work in QA, i can tell you that a test environment is the first and most important part of performing V&V on anything.

I've been quite clear that most mobile devices experience the problem, i was simply using the Samsung Galaxy S as an example since it seems todays hot topic. Once again, feel free to pop onto youtube to see for yourself.

Regarding the fact that Apple has taken the brunt of the bad media, let's look at this objectively.

Which phone has the largest world-wide sales?
Which phone with an exposed antenna was released first?
Which company denied that there was an issue at all?
Which company constantly gets the most press coverage?

So I'd expect that as other phones like the Galaxy S exhibit issues, the media will pick up on this. BUT, let's face it, Apple is the 800 pound gorilla and along with that comes the focus of the press....be it good or bad.

So because a company is large, popular and receives a great deal of press coverage. It gives journalists license to abandon the ethics of a profession which have taken a serious battering in recent years, i don't think so. Either you just don't care that by in large our news coverage is being ripped to shreds by profit motivated journalism, or you're just blind to it.

If you look at it objectively:

- Company A make a product line which is the most popular
- Company B, C, D, E and F make less popular products within the same category
- A problem is discovered in company As product, this problem also occurs in company B, C, D, E and Fs products.

At this point, journalistic integrity takes a dive. Choosing to saturate their coverage on one company, knowing it will exacerbate the situation and lead to increased traffic. Rather than performing a comparison, giving their readership and honest and impartial look at the problem across the marketplace. God knows we've seen enough iPhone 4 vs HTC Evo vs Samsung Galaxy S face offs regarding reviews, didn't think it was important to also extend the same type of approach to this situation? No - because that might just of killed a story which escalated into a full on media event.. Which is no doubt, far more profitable. Or if not purely for profit, their own entertainment by exploiting their position of power and giving only a bias view of the events to make a dent in a company they would personally like to take a stab at.

The news has always been about finding out the truth, then exposing it. Even if that truth wasn't as sensational as it perhaps could be, it was still the truth and it had to be balanced so it didn't leave room for bias.

That sort of thinking seems to have been lost.. Even more disturbing, you don't seem to be as annoyed about that as i am. Especially when you consider what journalists used to stand for, or stood against when trying to expose a truly important story.