iPhone 4S 1080p Gb/Hour requirements?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by akm3, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. akm3 macrumors 68020

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    #1
    Does anyone know or can make an educated guess on how much storage space the iPhone 4 will require for each hour of 1080p footage?
     
  2. AdrianK macrumors 68020

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    #2
    iPhone 4 does 720p @ 10mbit/s Baseline H264. 1080p is double the res so in-keeping with 720p we could expect 20mbit/s.

    The the A5 would allow for more efficient encoding; if Apple uses Main (or High) on the 4S they could probably keep the same bitrate that they're currently using without any sacrifice in quality.
     
  3. BornAgainMac macrumors 603

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  4. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    #4
  5. Peace macrumors Core

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    #5
    This is typical recording usage when the audio is set to AC-3 which the iPhone4S doesn't use. It uses stereo.
     

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  6. AdrianK, Oct 9, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2011

    AdrianK macrumors 68020

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    #6
    I understand what you did, but it seems very convoluted. All that matters is the bitrate, which we don't know, but assuming the bitrate:resolution ratio remains the same, we're looking at a bitrate of ((1920*1080)/(1280*720))*10 = 22.5mbit/s (168.75 mb/minute).

    Recording of what? That table doesn't make much sense. It suggests that the bitrate should not be adjusted to accommodate for an increase/decrease in resolution.
     
  7. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    I wouldn't say convoluted, the math is all there to see. A video is nothing more than a bunch of still photos taken rapidly. That's what I added up.

    My estimate for the iPhone 4 last year was pretty much dead on using the same formula, so If anything my calculation will probably be under by a couple of MB / min. Probably closer to 180 MB/min in actual usage.

    Only a 5 more days to go to find out for sure :D
     
  8. AdrianK macrumors 68020

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    #8
    I do understand what you did. Originally, you guessed the compression ratio just like anyone could have guessed the bitrate *shrug*

    Your calculation for the 4S is more complex that it needs to be, you used a compression ratio as your constant for quality instead of the 720p bitrate which takes more steps.
     
  9. xStep macrumors 68000

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    #9

    Interesting arguments for both your methods. Dizzy13 effectively arrives at a number based on an assumed compression percentage against the raw input. It doesn't account for the different frame types that make video "more than a bunch of still photos taken rapidly". Interesting and good enough for this thread.

    It will be interesting to see what bit rate Apple uses for their 1080p video. I'd be pleasantly surprised to see them go above 17Mbps, to 24Mbps. It will not be above 28Mbps since the AVC spec seems to cap out at that number.

    I wonder if Apple will kick up the audio bit rate and sample perhaps the sample rate.

    In a few days all will be revealed. ;)
     
  10. nateo200 macrumors 68030

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    #10
    I would rather have 60fps 720 than 1080...1080 is good but even on a DSLR it is pretty much overkill for anything casual...I could see 720p 60fps and 24fps with some nice zoom crop built in be more beneficial as well as making the 720 just better quality...good 720 is miles better than bad or even ok 1080. In time 1080 will become standard but I honestly think its overkill...
     
  11. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. I'm going of the normal compression ranges from 40:1 to 60:1. I stuck with 60:1 based on the last years iPhone 4 which was right around 60:1. I basically ignored the audio, since that doesn't make a huge impact percentage wise on the overall number, especially with 1080p video.

    Of course depending on what you are shooting the compression wouldn't be constant and the video could be more than 180 MB / min, but I assume that will be very close to the average video.
     
  12. HobeSoundDarryl macrumors 603

    HobeSoundDarryl

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    #12
    But as usual when this kind of argument is made, you are assuming that going to 1080p involves a bunch of tradeoffs... yet no such tradeoffs are posted. While...

    ...how do you know that it will automatically be bad or OK 1080? Why don't we just flip the same statement: "good 1080 is miles better than bad or even OK 720" The assumption is the same one just flipping which resolution someone chooses to cast as good or bad. For that matter, good SD can be miles better than bad 720p or 1080p, but no one seems to argue for going back to SD quality as standard.

    We shouldn't assume that getting 1080p means getting "bad" 1080p. Maybe Apple decided that it's incarnation of 1080p would be so maxed out that it would leave nothing for the "bag of hurt": same resolution, max Mbps, max frame rate, etc... a true head-to-head BD picture quality competitor.

    720p good enough for you? Great. Better hardware can usually easily handle lesser standards. If this camera can shoot 1920 x 1080 video it can probably easily handle (and continue to shoot) 1280 x 720 too. My 1080p camcorder has options for shooting at various resolutions, various bit rates, etc. Maybe this "camcorder" feature will too.

    Either way 1080p is probably the max standard for a long time to come. 720p while sharp is obviously sacrificing resolution detail that can be captured at 1080p. If one has the choice of both, why not enjoy that flexibility? If 720p is good enough, continue to shoot your own video at 720p. For those wanting 1080p, this may be a great enticement for them to buy this iPhone too. You win. They win. Apple wins.
     
  13. Consultant macrumors G5

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    #13
    iPhone 4S has gyro stabilization.
     
  14. jimbobb24 macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Video on 4S

    Can I shoot in just 720p. No way I want to fill my hard drive with 1080p videos from my camera - I am not ready for that. Glad to jump from my current phone but not all the way to 1080p.
     
  15. Peace macrumors Core

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    #15
    Yes. I know the table looked confusing but the question was how much space does a 1080P video take .

    From the table a 1080i with 5.1 audio takes about 5.7 Gb per hour. So I'd say a 1080P video with stereo will take about the same usage.
     
  16. xStep macrumors 68000

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    #16
    We'll know soon, when people get their new iPhone 4S and start telling us about the subtleties.
     
  17. KeithPratt macrumors 6502a

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    #17
    1080i video also takes up 600GB an hour and 75GB an hour and 12GB an hour and 2GB an hour. Which of these figures, if any, applies to the iPhone 4S? AdrianK's prediction was as good a guess as any.
     
  18. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    #18
    No way. That's about what the iPhone 4 720p does. I might be wrong with my guess, but this is way under.


    Just realized you said my way was more complex, but the better way takes more steps. ;)
     
  19. dizzy13, Oct 11, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011

    dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    #19
  20. Mac_Max macrumors 6502

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    There's nothing stopping them from keeping the video at 10Mbps. h.264 is a very good compression format and the 4s is a powerful phone. Also remember that it's a phone, not an XDCAM. You never had the things you loose by recording to a loss-y compression format like h.264, in the first place.

    Here's a sample of 10Mbps h.264 1080 video from someone's camcorder care of Youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAX0psrDdZM
     
  21. mmcook macrumors newbie

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    #21
    Anyone have an answer for this yet? I'd love to be able to scale down the video in certain situations to save some space..
     
  22. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    #22
    Confirmed size is about 180 MB / min and no you can't choose 720p, it's only 1080p.
     
  23. bniu macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    is there anything preventing apple from making an option of 1080p/720p/480p?

    I'd like to conserve some HDD space, 1080p is just a yawner to me. The jump from 480p to 720p was huge but the jump to 1080p doesn't seem like it's worth the huge disk space needed...

    just like 3 to 5 MPs was big but after 5, the additional benefits start to diminish...
     
  24. xStep macrumors 68000

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    #24
    No. I'm doing something similar with a time lapse app I'm writing. The back camera on my iPod touch can supply 720p video, but I have an option to use 480p instead. I'm not sure I should supply the option, but it would allow you to combine back camera footage with front camera SD footage or with older DV material. For now I'm leaving it in.

    Will Apple do such a thing. Doubtful, but give them feedback if you want it because I could see them supplying a settings option for it if enough people complain. I can't see them supplying an option on the actual camera screen though, or supplying a 480p option. They may reject the idea outright if they believe the further down sizing has negative issues.
     
  25. dizzy13 macrumors 6502

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    Yes... Apple is preventing Apple from making that an option :p

    Everything they do is to make it easier for users. So if an option isn't needed by 80% of people they wont' give it to anyone.

    If they ever did allow this, it would happen as xStep suggest, in the settings app for camera. "Record in 1080p - ( Yes | No )"


    I agree the jump from 480p to 720p is more dramatic than 720p to 1080p, but that's not a good reason not to move forward with technology. 1080p is still noticeably better than 720p if you have a good enough screen to watch it on.

    Also, remember, it's not just a better video camera (1080p) and more megapixel still camera (8MP), but a better lens and overall camera technology. Even if this 4S camera were 5MP, it would still blow the iPhone 4 camera away on overall quality.
     

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