iPhone 5se is Apple's way of avoiding a "free" iPhone 6 in the Fall

[Andres Cantu]

Spring 2016 line-up:

$449.99 - iPhone 5se
$549.99 - iPhone 6
$649.99 - iPhone 6s

Fall 2016 line-up:

$449.99 - iPhone 5se
$549.99 - iPhone 6s
$649.99 - iPhone 7

Notice how the iPhone 6 would have been sold for "free" (or $449.99) in this coming Fall, but Apple obviously knows that would cause major cannibalism (since the average consumer only cares about the 4.7" screen) for the iPhone 7. Therefore, by releasing the iPhone 5se (or whatever it may be called), they can use it as an excuse to discontinue the iPhone 6 this Fall, much like they discontinued the iPhone 5 for the 5c (since it was cheaper to produce and they wanted people to opt for the 5s and not the otherwise cheaper 5).

Even if the iPhone 5se is "delayed" until the Fall, they would still go with that line-up.

 

[bufffilm]

I'm not following...the 6s will be bumped to #2 when the 7 comes out. No reason for the 6 after that.

 

[Andres Cantu]

I'm not following...the 6s will be bumped to #2 when the 7 comes out. No reason for the 6 after that.

The 6 would otherwise be #3, but the 5se will prevent that.

 

[bufffilm]

The 6 would otherwise be #3, but the 5se will prevent that.

The 6c will probably have 2gb RAM, don't really see Apple selling the 6 w/1gb RAM at that point. And anyone stupid enough to buy it, should be shot as a dumb-as*.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

makes sense

 

[VideoBeagle]

but the 5S(e I assume) is a different form factor and it would seem to make sense to keep such on the market for people who want that rather than the two bigger models..

 

[killhippie]

I cant look at the name without seeing 5see not 5s (e) Horrible name. it will fit a market that people need, phone to use one handed and that fits in a small pocket, but Apple need to drop the price point enough to make it worth buying. I'm a wheelchair user and I dread taking my 6s out of my pocket as one handed use wise it's not that friendly, and I have large hands.

 

[colorfuel]

iPhone 5S users that have been holding off since 6(S) for an upgrade to their 4" device are going to feel a little abused for an (1+1/2 year old) A8 to replace their A7. Sure if you dont know how to change the battery on your own, its ok. Otherwise there is virtually no reason to upgrade to an iPhone 5SuckerEdition.

Since I dont use Applepay/NFC they are going to have better arguments than that measly A8 to convince me to upgrade to a 5SE instead of going for a used and cheaper 5S. Like substantially increased battery life or 2GB Ram.

 

[maflynn]

The iPhone 5c was the low end at one point, and whether you call the new one 6c, 5se, or what have you, it will be the low end. Personally, I doubt it will be called the 5se, as the name implies a much older design and chipset. Just my $.02

 

[Closingracer]

The 6c will probably have 2gb RAM, don't really see Apple selling the 6 w/1gb RAM at that point. And anyone stupid enough to buy it, should be shot as a dumb-as*.

Or perhaps some people just don't give a care in the world for 2gb?

 

[bufffilm]

Or perhaps some people just don't give a care in the world for 2gb?

As if that mattered to Apple.

Bottom line, you get what you get and you're going to like it...Apple has spoken.

Maybe they will keep the 6 as a cheap phone (#4) to bring up the rear. Makes no difference to me.

 

[Andres Cantu]

As if that mattered to Apple.

Bottom line, you get what you get and you're going to like it...Apple has spoken.

Maybe they will keep the 6 as a cheap phone (#4) to bring up the rear. Makes no difference to me.

I highly doubt that. In fact, I bet they're already regretting having kept the iPhone 6 in the middle of the line-up since it's cannibalizing the 6s more than the 5c did the 5s. If they wanted to avoid that, they should have released the so-called "5se" last Fall along with the 6s. It would have taken the place of the iPhone 6 and the 5s would not have been discontinued until this Fall.

They know that a greater percentage of people want the larger 4.7" screen, so they will keep that feature at a premium for as long as they can.

 

[bufffilm]

I highly doubt that. In fact, I bet they're already regretting having kept the iPhone 6 in the middle of the line-up since it's cannibalizing the 6s more than the 5c did the 5s. If they wanted to avoid that, they should have released the so-called "5se" last Fall along with the 6s. It would have taken the place of the iPhone 6 and the 5s would not have been discontinued until this Fall.

They know that a greater percentage of people want the larger 4.7" screen, so they will keep that feature at a premium for as long as they can.

One thing we haven't seen from Apple is do they want to pursue the lower end market?

In that sense there might be some reasoning for keeping the 6, although I agree with you that they will probably end it when the iPhone 7 comes out.

 

[minimo3]

With the elimination of 2 year contracts and phone subsidies there will be no more "free" phones nor the $0/$99/$199 price tiers. If the 5se is priced at $449 it will merely be a $18 per month finance option vs $27/month for the top tier device in 16GB guise

 

[JM]

Spring 2016 line-up:

$449.99 - iPhone 5se
$549.99 - iPhone 6
$649.99 - iPhone 6s

Fall 2016 line-up:

$449.99 - iPhone 5se
$549.99 - iPhone 6s
$649.99 - iPhone 7

Notice how the iPhone 6 would have been sold for "free" (or $449.99) in this coming Fall, but Apple obviously knows that would cause major cannibalism (since the average consumer only cares about the 4.7" screen) for the iPhone 7. Therefore, by releasing the iPhone 5se (or whatever it may be called), they can use it as an excuse to discontinue the iPhone 6 this Fall, much like they discontinued the iPhone 5 for the 5c (since it was cheaper to produce and they wanted people to opt for the 5s and not the otherwise cheaper 5).

Even if the iPhone 5se is "delayed" until the Fall, they would still go with that line-up.

I like your proposal, but If they did this then that would mean the 5se gets an A8 like the 6, not an A9.

I hate if that's all true because the 4" is again kicked to 2 year old tech (excuse me, 1.5 year old tech).

Edit: And for f***s sake, don't use whatever crappy 4" screen supplier that gave me vertical scan/interlace grey lines that f*** up my videos and anything blue.... AND gave me a yellow screen. Thanks.
[doublepost=1453577312][/doublepost]

I highly doubt that. In fact, I bet they're already regretting having kept the iPhone 6 in the middle of the line-up since it's cannibalizing the 6s more than the 5c did the 5s. If they wanted to avoid that, they should have released the so-called "5se" last Fall along with the 6s. It would have taken the place of the iPhone 6 and the 5s would not have been discontinued until this Fall.

They know that a greater percentage of people want the larger 4.7" screen, so they will keep that feature at a premium for as long as they can.

Yup. The 6 and 6s made no sense whatsoever. I was hoping they would release an updated 5s (hell, even a plastic one) at $550 so the 6s was the only option. September was so boring.

 

[guychicago]

My guess is we will see an A9 processor which is under clocked and running at around 1.4-1.5GHz. This will help with better battery life. It will also help bring the cost of production of A9 lower or if you believe the rhetoric on poor 6s sales, the chips can be directed to this 4" device.

 

[Zwhaler]

The 6c will probably have 2gb RAM, don't really see Apple selling the 6 w/1gb RAM at that point. And anyone stupid enough to buy it, should be shot as a dumb-as*.

You really think Apple wouldn't sell a phone with 1GB RAM? They care about money... that's why we still have 16GB entry and the 6 had 1GB RAM when it should have had 2.

 

[JM]

Or perhaps some people just don't give a care in the world for 2gb?

Yeah I don't care about 2GB of ram. The device works fine... But I have a 5s. If it's true that the 6 suffers because it has 1gb of ram, perhaps a 4" doesn't need 2 GB of ram? I don't know....

I just know the 5s does just fine with 1GB of ram. Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Andres Cantu]

Yeah I don't care about 2GB of ram. The device works fine... But I have a 5s. If it's true that the 6 suffers because it has 1gb of ram, perhaps a 4" doesn't need 2 GB of ram? I don't know....

I just know the 5s does just fine with 1GB of ram. Correct me if I'm wrong

I used to have a 5s (and a 6), and yes, they both suffer with the 1GB of RAM. The screen size has nothing to do with memory management. An under-clocked A8 with 2GB of RAM would be better than an under-clocked A9 with 1GB of RAM, but since they will probably continue to sell the 6 at a higher price, you can bet that this new 4" device won't have 2GB of RAM in it.

 

[JM]

I used to have a 5s (and a 6), and yes, they both suffer with the 1GB of RAM. The screen size has nothing to do with memory management. An under-clocked A8 with 2GB of RAM would be better than an under-clocked A9 with 1GB of RAM, but since they will probably continue to sell the 6 at a higher price, you can bet that this new 4" device won't have 2GB of RAM in it.

Would you be able to describe what suffers in the 5s with only 1gb of ram? The only thing I get that would improve with more ram is the amount of tabs that can be frozen for multitasking (including the amount of frozen Safari tabs).

 

[Andres Cantu]

Would you be able to describe what suffers in the 5s with only 1gb of ram? The only thing I get that would improve with more ram is the amount of tabs that can be frozen for multitasking (including the amount of frozen Safari tabs).

What you mentioned is true, but what was more noticeable to me was when going back in Safari. The 6s is able to stop websites from refreshing when going back due to the higher RAM while the 6 and 5s have to reload them more often.

 

[JM]

What you mentioned is true, but what was more noticeable to me was when going back in Safari. The 6s is able to stop websites from refreshing when going back due to the higher RAM while the 6 and 5s have to reload them more often.

That would be nice to have less refreshes, but the amount I see now is tolerable.

So yes, 2GB would be nice then, but I definitely am not holding my breath

 

[Closingracer]

Yeah I don't care about 2GB of ram. The device works fine... But I have a 5s. If it's true that the 6 suffers because it has 1gb of ram, perhaps a 4" doesn't need 2 GB of ram? I don't know....

I just know the 5s does just fine with 1GB of ram. Correct me if I'm wrong

I would love 2gb of ram but it's not a deal breaker

 

[Mac 128]

I highly doubt that. In fact, I bet they're already regretting having kept the iPhone 6 in the middle of the line-up since it's cannibalizing the 6s more than the 5c did the 5s. If they wanted to avoid that, they should have released the so-called "5se" last Fall along with the 6s. It would have taken the place of the iPhone 6 and the 5s would not have been discontinued until this Fall.

They know that a greater percentage of people want the larger 4.7" screen, so they will keep that feature at a premium for as long as they can.

I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here. While there may be some cannibalizing going on, the losses are being offset by something far more important -- Android and Samsung customers jumping ship to Apple. Dropping the 6 & 6plus $100 opens them up to a huge number of converts who were priced out during the first round. Apple customers are always going to opt for the flagship for the most part.

While I agree the "5se" may be introduced to keep the 6 from becoming the $499 phone, I do think Apple intends to offer the discounted 6 as the final blow to the cheap Android and Samsung markets -- drawing all the customers left who will jump platforms -- maybe at a new $500 price point. But make no mistake, next year, the 6 will be at the bottom. In the meantime, Apple may also be replacing the 5S early, because they want every phone sold in 2016 to be capable of Pay, and they can't count on cheap 5S customers buying an Watch to get it. How else will Apple live up to Wall Street analyists predictions of Apple making great strides during 2016? They can justify the R&D on updating a phone they are essentially "giving a way", by selling it in developing markets next year, like they did with the 4S.

But you speak of cannibalization as if only offering a cheap 4" phone won't cannibalize anything else. When in fact that out of the 40% or so of installed iPhone customers using a 5s or smaller, a sizeable portion are likely able to pay much more, and are holding out on upgrading for size alone. A decent upgrade for the 5S will result in a lot of those customers choosing size over features and Apple losing $100-200 on each purchase. With that in mind, they may very well offer a "6c" at the same time, which allows them to make more from those customers who can afford more, while keeping cannibalization to a minimum, and forwarding implementation of their services. Depending on the demand, that could lead to a mid cycle refresh of the 4" every year, and eventually 3 size model choices at every tier. Which in turn has every customer paying the maximum for what they would otherwise pay Apple for an iPhone.

 

[Andres Cantu]

I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here. While there may be some cannibalizing going on, the losses are being offset by something far more important -- Android and Samsung customers jumping ship to Apple. Dropping the 6 & 6plus $100 opens them up to a huge number of converts who were priced out during the first round. Apple customers are always going to opt for the flagship for the most part.

While I agree the "5se" may be introduced to keep the 6 from becoming the $499 phone, I do think Apple intends to offer the discounted 6 as the final blow to the cheap Android and Samsung markets -- drawing all the customers left who will jump platforms -- maybe at a new $500 price point. But make no mistake, next year, the 6 will be at the bottom. In the meantime, Apple may also be replacing the 5S early, because they want every phone sold in 2016 to be capable of Pay, and they can't count on cheap 5S customers buying an Watch to get it. How else will Apple live up to Wall Street analyists predictions of Apple making great strides during 2016? They can justify the R&D on updating a phone they are essentially "giving a way", by selling it in developing markets next year, like they did with the 4S.

But you speak of cannibalization as if only offering a cheap 4" phone won't cannibalize anything else. When in fact that out of the 40% or so of installed iPhone customers using a 5s or smaller, a sizeable portion are likely able to pay much more, and are holding out on upgrading for size alone. A decent upgrade for the 5S will result in a lot of those customers choosing size over features and Apple losing $100-200 on each purchase. With that in mind, they may very well offer a "6c" at the same time, which allows them to make more from those customers who can afford more, while keeping cannibalization to a minimum, and forwarding implementation of their services. Depending on the demand, that could lead to a mid cycle refresh of the 4" every year, and eventually 3 size model choices at every tier. Which in turn has every customer paying the maximum for what they would otherwise pay Apple for an iPhone.

So you believe a $500 phone is cheap-enough to make every Android user (since you mentioned "final blow") jump ship to iOS? I don't believe that in the slightest, especially with all the $99-$199 Android phones that are out there today.

With the current $549.99 iPhone 6 selling better than Apple had anticipated, they would have learned their lesson by the next time. A $449.99 iPhone 6 would further affect 6s and 7 sales this Fall, which is why I believe they won't offer the 6 after the 7 comes out.