iPhone 6 Said to Feature Sony's 13-Megapixel Exmor IMX220 Camera Sensor

[TallManNY]

You're kidding right? Sony won't be selling phones at a loss. If this was the 'old' Sony then nothing would surprise me, but not the new Sony...

They very well might be selling them at a loss. I assume there are significant R&D expenses. I also assume that iPhone 6 will very popular. Like significantly outperforming the current already record expectations. If I'm right, then iPhone is going to dominate the high end market significantly more than it does now. If that is the case, Sony will be left doing price cuts or watching phones sit on shelves. I think it is hard to make money selling a nice smartphone for $300. Basically I think iPhone 6 and iOS 8 together are going to be a game changer in the smartphone and computer industry.

But maybe they can make money off this phone off of fairly low volumes. Of course I don't really know.

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Thank you. Clearly this is a balance between MP and sensor size. I may be in the extreme minority here, but I would like to have more MP (*some form of optical zoom would be preferred - but seemingly impossible). I don't want MP for MP sake, but to be able to zoom without dramatically reducing the picture quality seems like a legitimate request.

I don't really have any information on how much zoom/crop capabilities increase with 13 MP over 8 MP, but seems like a logical step forward. Keeping dynamic range and low light performance at the status quo (5S) to improve "zoom." Maybe that's fairy tale thinking but it makes sense to me. Anyone have a better grasp of that concept?

Zooming increases the effect of your hand's shake. The form factor already prevents us from bracing this camera against our head, so there is already a lot of hand shake in the pictures. Zooming is just going to make that worse.

All said, to most people it is probably is never worth the trade off for better low light pictures since that is often the most challenged shooting environment. And yet it is a common shooting environment.

 

[BeamWalker]

I would like to sea a bigger Sensor for sure, but don't really care for more Megapixels. 8MP is a nice sweetspot and would give you aliasing free 4K Video which is something that would be much more exiting to me than more MP for Photo.

 

[tzeshan]

The picture I took in 2011 with iPhone 4 looks better than the iPhone 5 camera I am using. It has better low light pictures. And the sensor is made by a US company called Omnivision.

 

[iolinux333]

I would just like the camera to have good lens of glass, large and well ground. It makes all the difference. It won't happen though. Oh well.

 

[MentalFloss]

all those saying how pixels don't matter, well they do matter but like everything it depends what your doing. For your average photo people are right, a larger censor and the amount of light that reaches it will give you a far better result, though increased pixel sizes can benefit macro photography and post cropping.

What is the advantage for macro photography?

And yes, you can crop your image and get an 8MP picture out of a 13MP picture. However, the idea behind croppable pictures is that you still get a decent quality out of the cropped picture that would allow you to view the picture on a sufficiently large display or print it in a larger format. If the picture has a terrible quality to begin with, then cropping will only make it worse.

It's quite possible that the 8MP picture that you crop out of a 13MP picture is worse than just taking the picture with an 8MP sensor and framing it correctly to begin with.

 

[Mildredop]

Nice, hopefully the sensor is big enough to work well in lower light situations. Pixels matter less then sensor size.

Actually it's the pixel size that's important for sensitivity.

 

[Zer0nium]

How is that possible that someone that says stuff like this has the money to buy a galaxy s5, iPad, macs, etc.? I find extremely frustrating.

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Cameras on phones advanced with tremendous pace. The camera on the "old" iPhone 5s most slaps (all things considered) the camera of every smartphone there is, be it small or bigger margins.. The camera of that Lumia takes ages to take and process a nice picture, and the phone itself is worse than garbage.

Besides, the simple fact that you could the iPhone's camera "mediocre" invalidates everything you said. You could said that the camera on the iPhone 4 is mediocre compared with the lumia 1020, but you shouldn't generalize to "iPhone".

The iPhone has the best overall camera. People that are impressed with MP numbers and over saturated (and wrong) colors think otherwise.

In no way am I defending the Lumia as a phone, because yes - it's absolute ****. However, the camera on said phone - does deserve a tip of the hat. Sure, generalizing iPhone as one device was wrong of me.

My point does stand though - Apple used to set the standard and everyone else copied, but now - it's kind of staying up with the front end, but not necessarily surpassing it by leaps and bounds.

 

[iAshley]

The module pictured is 6.8mm in depth. I'm really hoping they choose one that fits entirely within the phone casing.

I can see something like this being used to allow different focal lengths or zooms, I'm not an expert so I don't really know much about it but it seems this could be a direction they take.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/V570/V570A.HTM

Looks like they're turning the camera module on its side and using mirrors to direct the image onto a sensor, not really sure though.

 

[MrXiro]

I hope everyone realises this and does not fall into the trap that 13MP is always better than 8MP. There's a lot more to it than that.

I like having a bigger crop area to work with though. So a 13MP will be better for me since I'll have more pixels to work with... essentially we'll get a cleaner digital zoom.

 

[dona83]

This is exactly what i don't want to happen. I want the best iPhone 6. But I don't want 5.5". if the 5.5" is gonna be their feature packed, flagship model I am going to be really pissed. And I don't care about MP's

I agree. Sony got it absolutely right when they packed the same internals into the Z1 Compact as they did with the Z2, which is why the Z1 Compact is one Android phone I would consider buying if I ever switched to the dark side. None of this having a smaller phone means you have a lesser experience crap like the Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini.

Apple should follow suit with Sony.

 

[Traverse]

I hope everyone realises this and does not fall into the trap that 13MP is always better than 8MP. There's a lot more to it than that.

I agree, but I don't think Apple will backtrack. I suspect that the sensor will at least be on par with the one in the 5S.

 

[Aniseedvan]

It'll make the 16gb storage even less compelling to have, assuming each photo size will increase by a significant margin....

My ip5 16gb is mostly full from video and snaps (having to move them all onto my Nas as I ran out of room)...

 

[apolloa]

Very few people have the hardware that can distinguish even between 720p and 4K. And by hardware I mean the bio-receptors that are installed at the front of your head, above the nose.

I just love how you have stated as a FACT that very few people can tell the difference between 4k and 720p!
Tell me, when did you last test everyone on the planet? To back up your generalisation statement.

And I bet that when Apple make a 4K recording or viewing device you will soon backtrack your statement and suddenly see the difference...

 

[Tech198]

13 is a pretty big deal..

Is Apple feeling the pain here that they need to keep pace with the competition ? Suddenly, Apple is not seeing the number of pixels is the only thing here...

I wonder where i could that idea from *looks at MR users*

 

[mdelvecchio]

i wonder if anybody will complain that apple is failing to innovate when they use vendor-supplied components? i think not. yet they do when it comes to certain acquisitions...strange.

 

[GhostRaider]

How come Macs don't have a 1080p webcam yet? Always wondered this. Shouldn't be hard to put one in.

 

[Tech198]

I dunno, this look good already :-

 

[akbarali.ch]

I don't care much about the pixel count. Most of the time one would shoot a photo using a phone with less than ideal condition, the lights would be harsh, hands would be shaky, sun would be in front instead of back. With all those situations its unto the software and hardware to makeup the loss and give out better looking photos. Whats the point of having 13MP crude, noisy, blurred looking photo, i'd rather prefer 5MP of clear shot.

If all those things are taken care of first, then lets move to 13MP, after more pixel are not bad either.

 

[harley3k]

While it is true that more MP does not automatically mean better photos, if you ever want to crop a photo, which is often the case when you don't have an optical zoom, then more Megapixels does help because your cropped image is still a nice size.

 

[fallenjt]

How do you know if this belongs to iPhone 6? Also, where does it say on the part about 13MP?

 

[DryHeave]

Fibonacci Numbers

Anybody else notice that the iPhone camera pixel counts have been increasing along an exponential curve fitting Fibonacci Numbers?
2 megapixels — iPhone 1 & 3G (2007–2008)
3 megapixels — iPhone 3GS (2009)
5 megapixels — iPhone 4 (2010)
8 megapixels — iPhone 4S, 5C, 5S (2011–2013)
13 megapixels — iPhone 6 (2014)

 

[bigpics]

In what world do you live in where Sony makes "by far the best cameras"?

They make a number of very competitive cams since buying Konica/Minolta. The thread's mentioned some. I'll add the ∝(Alpha) series.

You're kidding right? Sony won't be selling phones at a loss. If this was the 'old' Sony then nothing would surprise me, but not the new Sony...

They're trying - and clearly making an effort, having slashed other lines of business to concentrate on mobile. Still...

Apple and Samsung are still estimated to account for more than 100 percent of the smartphone industry's profits. That's because all other companies are either break-even, or they experienced losses. (July, 2013)

I completely agree that MP's aren't everything, and 8MP is just fine. But purely from a marketing standpoint the iPhone 6 really needs to leave 8MP behind!

Not all pixels - and not all algorithms for dealing with 'em - are created equal. It's generally acknowledged that with their tight HW/SW integration Appple makes better use of the CPU and RAM - and by all indications, the camera sensors they've used.

No reason to think they won't do the same with a newer/larger sensor and more MP to play with... ...Even if the pixels are about the same size and density on the newer sensor, just having more sensor can be turned to a low-light (and HDR? and related modes?) advantage - depending on how Apple weighs and tunes for various variables.

A post below mentions using "2x2 binning" to (I believe) kind of poll multiple pixels for best info (or something like that) - though I can't explain it technically.

It's quite possible that the 8MP picture that you crop out of a 13MP picture is worse than just taking the picture with an 8MP sensor and framing it correctly to begin with.

Also, unless you use accessory lenses, the fixed focal length - and differing opportunities to approach the subject out in the field to frame it as you'd like - does mean many shots can use some cropping to rid the scene of extraneous elements. So another possibility is cropped shots with the same res as today's full size 8MP pics.

I can't see the improvement there. 13/(1/2.3) is greater than 8/(1/3.2), which means that we would have smaller sensor space per pixel, meaning less performance in low light situations and more noise, so it would be a step backwards from the iPhone 5s' sensor.
Ok 1080p video is an advantage, but a 8mpixel sensor could easily provide 1080p video.

The sensor - as shown in various posts (and in the chart quoted below) is larger and the pixels may be slightly larger as well, hence more inherent light-gathering capacity as noted below.

The rumoured sensor is significantly bigger (1/2.3") than the iPhone 5 (1/3.2") or iPhone 5s (1/3") sensor. Pixels would be just slightly bigger than 5s. If the rumour is true.

Very few people have the hardware that can distinguish even between 720p and 4K. And by hardware I mean the bio-receptors that are installed at the front of your head, above the nose.

Not all content stays on the phone, rather gets re-purposed for viewing on larger screens where these things can be apparent to most viewers' eyes.

And many of today's photos are destined to be artifacts and heirlooms kept for many years. I can't tell you how much I wish many of my older pix and vids were in higher res (especially the VHS!), even if the shooters at the time couldn't have displayed them better at the time.

Similarly, years from now the file sizes on larger stills and 4K video will be standard and later trivial in an 8K world.

So this is partly about archiving the "future past".....

According to this Wikipedia page that lists sensor area in mm, the iPhone 5S sensor is about 61% the size of this rumored 1/2.3" sensor. Furthermore, 8mp is about 62% of the size of the rumored 13mp. If this sensor was, say, something like 13.1mp in effective pixels (but just listed as 13 for clarity), then the scale would be pretty much exactly the same. Furthermore, you also have to take into account increases in sensor quality and noise reduction from one generation to the next, as well as the hires Apple has been making in relation to camera software to give the best result possible from the latest sensors. Many people don't realize how much processing an image goes through before you see it on your screen.

Here is a comparison of sensor sizes. So in this chart, Apple would be moving up from the smallest square to the second smallest.

Image

This is why smartphone cameras will always play second fiddle to the big boys. Sure the quality is getting pretty good, but they can never get sensors this big in a phone. A professional camera like the 5D MkIII I use at work is the biggest rectangle, my 7D is the fourth biggest (light orange), and my casual shooter, the Sony RX100, is the sixth biggest (light green). Most of the popular point and shoots fall somewhere below that, but above the tiny smartphone sensors. Even still, the best camera is the one you have on you—so I still end up shooting a lot of photos on my iPhone. So I would welcome the new sensor and increased resolution—especially for cropping.

I also know that Apple used 2x2 binning on the iPhone 5 in low light, but didn't on the 5S because of the bigger sensor. With the increase in resolution, I wonder if they would bring that feature back to give a super boost to very low-light images, especially given that an increase in resolution would help offset the biggest drawback to 2x2 binning, which is loss of resolution.

 

[carves]

Why? This is way beyond the diffraction limit of that tiny lens. How often do any of you blow up a print beyond 16" anyway? How many of you even MAKE a print? A 1080p monitor is under 2 megapixels. A retina MacBook Pro is more like 5, and 4k is under 10. Not only will you see no benefit from more megapixels, you'll have to deal with several important compromises

1) More noise and less low-light sensitivity than a similarly designed sensor with fewer, larger pixels
2) Bigger file size/longer processing time. This is especially a big deal if the biggest phone is still only 64 GB and without some big iCloud size improvements
3) It's probably marginally more expensive.

For what? To have enough pixels where you can make a print big enough to see the limitations of the tiny lens? What's the point?

On the other hand, camera phones tend to suck in anything less than bright conditions...but people always want to use them at night. Focus on bigger pixels because the low-light performance is something people will actually notice. 8 Mp is plenty for a phone. Even 4 or 6 is sufficient if the low light performance is a lot better.

 

[Edd.Dantes]

So in other words, worse than the S5 camera. Less MP, no 4K recording....they may as well just stay with the tried and true 8MP they've been using for centuries then.

This guy gets it...

Pixels DO matter. Apple has shown that they don't care about battery life and image cropping. They wonder why Android OEM's are eating them for dinner #

All of you "pixels don't matter" folks, look at how long Apple has been using 8mp. You think that is the ceiling or something. Jesus, don't be such koolaid drinkers. Sony makes great sensors and 13mp would be excellent to have in an iPhone!

But... But... "It's all about teh sencer" #

Praise Apple all you want but if they cannot get with the times, and apply their camera prowess to a larger MP module, then they will just lose more market share.

This phone needs 13mp and it is way overdo.

 

[carves]

This guy gets it...

Pixels DO matter. Apple has shown that they don't care about battery life and image cropping. They wonder why Android OEM's are eating them for dinner ��

All of you "pixels don't matter" folks, look at how long Apple has been using 8mp. You think that is the ceiling or something. Jesus, don't be such koolaid drinkers. Sony makes great sensors and 13mp would be excellent to have in an iPhone!

But... But... "It's all about teh sencer" ��

Praise Apple all you want but if they cannot get with the times, and apply their camera prowess to a larger MP module, then they will just lose more market share.

This phone needs 13mp and it is way overdo.

Uhhhh....they ARE (it seems) going with 13. I think it'll be worse performing for what most people use their phone for (see my above post)