I have no opinion regarding this debate, but I'm unclear on this point. Doesn't that article talk about only a recent decline due to factors like the move to EVs and tariffs? Wasn't Porsche using the same business model before and doing well? So if this conversation was taking place a few years ago when Porsche was doing well, would Beanoir's comparison be a valid point?Are you seriously using a company whose operating profits are down by 99% as an example? 😂
Porsche boss admits ‘our business model no longer works’
German automotive icon Porsche is doing it tougher than first realised, with its CEO reportedly sounding the alarm internally.torquecafe.com
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iPhone 17 iPhone Air a Flop, 17 Pro a Massive Hit
- Thread starter blairh
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uacd
macrumors 68000
17 Pro is the best so far. But do you know what is an actual hit? An iPhone 17, regular model, very underrated phone. It costs similarly to original iPhones yet packs a punch: 2 cameras and multiple virtual lenses, fast processor (smokes all the competitors and especially puts Pixel 10 to hall of shame), actually GOOD color options (hello space gray!!), magsafe, 120hz display with PWM control, doesn't have any of the weird features of Pro models like a huge "plateau" with vapor chamber and no stupid LIDAR sensor that often makes it impossible to focus on smth. A real bang for a buck, and by choosing it you still got enough money to buy an iPad Air as a companion device to scroll webpages easier for your eyes.
iPhone Air is more like an experiment (but who asked for it?). Same will happen to iPhone Fold or whatever name they choose for it, it will be a very niche/geek device not meant for 95% of consumers who just want something that slides into their pocket, scrolls Instagram, makes calls and works with AI chatbot assistants
iPhone Air is more like an experiment (but who asked for it?). Same will happen to iPhone Fold or whatever name they choose for it, it will be a very niche/geek device not meant for 95% of consumers who just want something that slides into their pocket, scrolls Instagram, makes calls and works with AI chatbot assistants
JPack
macrumors P6
No, Porsche is literally a case study used in B-schools right now to illustrate failure and fixed cost traps.
Beanoir's reference to Porsche is an example of people with zero understanding of business but think low volumes work. It did not work for Porsche, why would it work for Apple?
Porsche had huge warning signs back in 2022-2023. Their "exclusivity-first" production strategy which deliberately constrains volume contributed greatly to the company's overall financial problems today. They have huge fixed costs and in automotive, making a car like GT3 Touring with less than 1,000 units is a big mistake. Porsche spent a certain amount for dedicated engineering, testing, tooling, and marketing to make so few units. The GT3 Touring pissed off dealers too because they too have fixed costs to cover.
In short, Porsche was spending heavily on electrification R&D and battery manufacturing. At the same time, they used "exclusivity-first" strategy. This is like carrying two huge burdens at once.
Apple is spending a huge amount on AI infrastructure, hardware, chips, and new product categories. iPhone Air is low volume just like GT3 Touring.
Paul1964
macrumors 6502
JPack
macrumors P6
How can you be "sure"?
Data right now shows it's as low if not lower than iPhone mini.
Developing the Air costs probably $1B+. All for what? To get the same volumes as iPhone mini? Not to mention opportunity cost. It occupies a slot that could be used for another better performing model, in the iPhone lineup or elsewhere.
maerz001
macrumors 68030
Well at least they tried something new. With the mini and plus it was just a boring size difference.
When u look at samsung they have over a dozen different models in different lineups. Cheap plastic from 200€, FE models, edge, higher end plus and ultra ones to folding phones costing 2000€.
Beanoir
macrumors 6502a
I’m not sure that really matters much to the point I was making. Besides, the financial pain is not a Porsche thing, it’s an industry problem.Are you seriously using a company whose operating profits are down by 99% as an example? 😂
Porsche boss admits ‘our business model no longer works’
German automotive icon Porsche is doing it tougher than first realised, with its CEO reportedly sounding the alarm internally.
Ok well...you should care a little bit, because an iPhone that only garners 6% of iPhone sales has a short future.
The mini barely cracked 3%. The plus 11%, and they still replaced it. So, we can like the Air, but can't count on being able to buy more of them in the future if it doesn't sell well.
Macdctr
macrumors 68000
No . . . actually I really don’t care. I don’t buy my iPhones based on sales figures or what YouTubers recommend. When the time comes to upgrade, I look at each device and make my decision based on how I use my iPhone and get that device in the max storage configuration.
This time around, I went with my Air and have been pleased with this device. I’m good with this device.
maerz001
macrumors 68030
Which is fine. He was just trying to explain why there won’t be an Air in the future for u to choose from
transpo1
macrumors 68000
The split-release strategy is risky for Apple-- will the halo effect of the Pros and the Fold wear thin by the time the iPhone 18 / Air 2 are released in spring? My guess is that Apple figures they'll win more upmarket purchasers by releasing the premium devices first and making others wait. The risk is, people will go "meh" by the time the lower cost devices hit the market.
code-m
macrumors 601
Changing a traditional timeline for release products after running with it for 15 plus years will take adjustment for consumers for sure.
Apple’s biggest issue was that it released many high profit margin devices in the fourth quarter of the year due to Christmas sales and end of business year budget expenditure. Back-to-School covered the summer months which left the first half of the year lack luster for product releases. Exceptions were budget iPhone, iPad and the odd Mac products prior to WWDC.
Beanoir
macrumors 6502a
joshwithachance
macrumors 68030
In the U.S. it’s been the Pros getting the most heavily discounted since launch, believe it or not.
Prabas
macrumors 65816
US is a completely different game. Everything gets discounted even on day 1, then you get carrier deals, etc.
Here, even on day 1, you could've walked into any store and picked up any colour Air. While Pros were sold out within 1 or 2 hours and wait times were up to a month (like every single year).
code-m
macrumors 601
I don’t understand why people compare the mini and air together when cost wise the mini was less compared to air. However factoring and adjusting for inflation, either way of the mini was still sold today and air previously it’s still overpriced and bad value when compared to the basic model.
Some consumers are in some thought process that the air and maybe the mini can have a future with low volume sales. I hate to break it to them but Apple has minimum sales target for every device. I say this as a mini 13 proud owner but I had to accept reality.
The initial release of the mini looked strong just like air with 6% but after the second mini was released it was half at 3%. Recall that the biggest issue with the mini was battery life. Now compare this to the air, if anyone believes it will have a different outcomes their are fooling themselves. Even if Apple manages to put a second rear camera in there and second speaker it still has the battery issue of the mini. Then one has to consider the increased weight and it’s distribution making it top heavy.
I held the Air at the store, it felt nice but the size of the display made holding it for longer awkward, this is reason I stay away from the PM size as well.
ejb190
macrumors 65816
Alright - I wish I had been earlier to this thread.
We need to discuss this chart and how it's being interpreted.
The chart shows what percentage each phone model held of sales within the specified period. You cannot compare percentages across two distinct time periods unless you can draw a direct line. For instance, if I sold 10% iPhone A in 2024 and 10% iPhone B in 2025, that sounds equal until I tell you I sold 10 million total iPhones in 2024 (for 1 million iPhone As) and 1.5 million total iPhones in 2025 (for 1.5 million iPhone Bs). Not so even now, eh?
So unless you are drawing in external data, this chart cannot be used to make the conclusions some of you are coming to.
"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain
We need to discuss this chart and how it's being interpreted.
The chart shows what percentage each phone model held of sales within the specified period. You cannot compare percentages across two distinct time periods unless you can draw a direct line. For instance, if I sold 10% iPhone A in 2024 and 10% iPhone B in 2025, that sounds equal until I tell you I sold 10 million total iPhones in 2024 (for 1 million iPhone As) and 1.5 million total iPhones in 2025 (for 1.5 million iPhone Bs). Not so even now, eh?
So unless you are drawing in external data, this chart cannot be used to make the conclusions some of you are coming to.
"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain
code-m
macrumors 601
A MR member here broke down each model according to timeframe of initial release quarter, removing the data over the difference where one model sold and the other was yet to be released and the conclusion is still not good.
Paul1964
macrumors 6502
JPack
macrumors P6
There's no "gotcha" moment here.
This CIRP data looks a single month in the U.S. and surveys consumers only, not businesses.
Apple regularly ships between 75-80 million units of iPhone in Q4 each year. This is a known variable. Even if you assume 2024 was a low volume year and 2025 was high, the final difference is no more than 10-15%. When you boil that down the 6% segment share iPhone Air got, the 10-15% is a rounding error.
