iPhone Competition-Apple had REALLY better step up...

[joeshell383]

Apple is really going to have to step up the game.

-Windows 7 will be available Oct 22 (or before) and has been getting very favorable press and so far Snow Leopard looks like an unmarketable upgrade
-Zune HD is coming this fall and the iPod Touch is starting to seem dated in terms of display technology and hardware features
-PSP GO! will compete with the iPod Touch's ability to download games over Wi-Fi
-XBOX 360 will soon allow for full game downloads, something Apple should have been getting into when the Apple TV launched
-Blu-ray adoption is rapidly increasing and Apple doesn't offer BR drives on any of its products even as a BTO option
-Netbooks are growing in use and Apple has shown no answer to this segment
-Palm Pre is more refined and feature complete than the current iPhone in almost every aspect (i.e. Apple still has the brand advantage and the App Store)
-Internationally, phones like the one below are being released, and make the current iPhone's imaging hardware look pitiful

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/...d=news_view&newsId=20090602006218&newsLang=en

Shoot, See and Share with Samsung Pixon12, The World’s First 12 Megapixel Camera Phone
The World’s First 12-Megapixel Camera Phone for Instant Photo Shoot & View Will Be Available in Europe from End of June

SEOUL, Korea--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., a leading mobile phone provider, today reinforced its leadership in the high megapixel camera phone market by unveiling Samsung Pixon12 (M8910) – the world’s first 12-megapixel camera phone with full-touch screen.

A response to today’s consumers who demand robust camera features in their mobile phones, the Pixon12 comes packed with a host of functions which enable consumers to easily capture, browse and share their images on the move – all on a brilliant full-touch 3.1-inch AMOLED screen.

“The Pixon12 is testament to how Samsung’s ongoing consumer research enables us to develop ground-breaking products that do not just meet but surpass our customers’ expectations. Speedy access to the camera mode, fast shutter speed and quick browsing are some of the key factors consumers are looking for in their mobile phone cameras,” said Executive Vice President JK Shin, Head of Mobile Communication Division in Samsung Electronics.

He added, “We are very pleased to introduce the world’s first 12-megapixel camera phone that holds the answer to these pressing consumer needs.”

Instant Shoot

The Samsung Pixon12 enables users to take perfect pictures quickly and easily, thanks to a Dedicated Camera Power Key which gives users fast one-touch access to the camera function. Once the camera is turned on, users can aim and snap, capturing images as fast as today’s advanced digital camera. Samsung Pixon12 also features fast image saving for next shot, so users can move to next shot within around 2 seconds.

The phone provides the best photo quality by adopting innovative camera features. With Touch Auto-Focus (AF) tracking, users can simply select focus point with the touch of a finger, after which the AF function will automatically follow the object, keeping it in focus even as it moves across the screen. Moreover, Smart Auto feature allows users to capture the perfect images as the camera automatically changes the scene and mode based on its object, background and lighting.

Images taken on the Pixon12 are worth showing off to friends and loved ones as they boast digital camera quality thanks to the phone camera’s superb lens and Xenon flash.

The 28mm wide angle lens also allows a better perspective and more full capture of a scene for consumers.

Instant See

After they are done snapping, users can re-live and enjoy the pictures on the Pixon12’s brilliant 3.1-inch AMOLED screen. The screen boasts a contrast ratio of 10,000:1 while providing power-saving features which increase battery life.

Finally, the Pixon12 enables users to easily organize and manage photos with multiple ways of sorting - by tags, file names, ratings, and time. In addition, the multi-selection feature enables users to pull up images in groups rather than one by one, making viewing and editing photos much easier.

Instant Share

With Samsung Share Pix, the Pixon12 lets users easily upload images and videos to popular social networking sites such as Facebook, Picasa, Flickr, MySpace, Photobucket, Friendster. Add to that, the phone’s high-connectivity functions including Wi-Fi and HSUPA capabilities mean that users' photos can be shared with their friends in no time.

The Samsung Pixon12 will be available from end of June in European countries and it will be expanded to other regions in August.


Samsung M8910
Product Fact Sheet
Network HSPA 900/2100 MHz
GPRS/EDGE 850/900/1800/1900 MHz

Display 3.1-inch 16M AMOLED

Camera 12MP with Xenon + Power Led Flash
Wide Angle 28mm, Digital Zoom, Touch AF Tracking

Smart Auto, Beauty Shot, Vintage Shot

Video / Audio Video: D1(720x480) 30fps
MPEG4, H.263, H.264, DivX, XviD

Audio: MP3, AAC, AAC+, AAC+e, WMA

Value Added Features Share Pix, GPS, FM Radio with RDS
Connectivity WiFi, BT 2.1, USB 2.0 HS (micro USB)
Memory Internal memory: 150MB
External memory: Micro SD (up to 16GB)

Battery 1,000 mAh
Size 108x53x13.8mm

 

[ziggyonice]

Truthfully, I'm going to agree with this. Maybe it's Apple, or maybe because of Steve's absence, but it feels like their stuck in the glory days of well, two years ago. Nothing could touch them then... but competitors are catching up, and it's as though little has changed to challenge them.

When is Apple going to start innovating again? WWDC... I hope?

 

[A MacBook lover]

Post this is the general forum? This is the iphone forum

 

[joeshell383]

Post this is the general forum? This is the iphone forum

Newbie, I included information about a 12-megapixel camera phone that will compete with the iPhone internationally.

 

[The Californian]

The only problem with your points ( WHICH WERE ALL VERY GOOD POINTS ) is that Apple always plays their cards close to their chest. Other companies reveal their products far ahead of launch days and let the anticipation ( and competition ) rise, but Apple always surprises us ( and the competition ) at the last second. Hopefully they continue this trend at WWDC.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Apple is really going to have to step up the game.

-Windows 7 will be available Oct 22 (or before) and has been getting very favorable press and so far Snow Leopard looks like an unmarketable upgrade

You think people are going to leave OS X to get Windows 7? I don't see that happening. I predict it will just become a good upgrade for all the people who held off getting Vista and are still on XP.

-Palm Pre is more refined and feature complete than the current iPhone in almost every aspect (i.e. Apple still has the brand advantage and the App Store)

Not really. Palm Pre can't search the calendar application, which is a HUGE deal for a lot of people. The iPhone can't now, but it will with the 3.0 upgrade. The Pre's universal search isn't that universal: It only searches contacts, apps, and the four internet portals. That's not universal.

-Internationally, phones like the one below are being released, and make the current iPhone's imaging hardware look pitiful

That would mean something if the specs of the hardware had a lot to do with the success of the iPhone.

Pro tip: The specs aren't what makes the iPhone popular.

 

[nfl46]

All Apple does is disappoint us at events. It seems like the only reason Apple is adding C&P, MMS, etc. is because of competition. If the Palm Pre wouldn't have been invented, then Apple probably still wouldn't have given us C&P, MMS, etc. Its sad that it takes competition for Apple to open their eyes and give us, the loyal customers, what we wanted a year or so ago.

 

[The General]

That phone is so meh. There aren't any phones comparable to the iPhone in usability. You can give a turd a 12 megapixel camera, but it's still a turd.

 

[Petoz]

You think people are going to leave OS X to get Windows 7? I don't see that happening. I predict it will just become a good upgrade for all the people who held off getting Vista and are still on XP.

I don't think that was what the OP was saying. I agree with you in that Mac OS X users are unlikely to switch to windows 7. But if snow leopard isn't as marketable as windows 7, what about the new users? This is where Apple have done well in recent years. Bringing people over from other OSs. And I would have to agree with the OP at this point, as it does seem as though for that to continue, Apple may need to step up.

I really hope this, because it will benefit everyone.

On another note, as MS have slated October 22nd for Windows 7 release, do people think this will have an effect on the Snow Leopard release?

 

[stezza333]

The only problem with your points ( WHICH WERE ALL VERY GOOD POINTS ) is that Apple always plays their cards close to their chest. Other companies reveal their products far ahead of launch days and let the anticipation ( and competition ) rise, but Apple always surprises us ( and the competition ) at the last second. Hopefully they continue this trend at WWDC.

Come on Apple...suprise us!!

 

[slapppy]

Close shop

Wow. Apple should just give up then. Lock the doors, pack up the bags and call it quits.

 

[Leemo]

-Windows 7 will be available Oct 22 (or before) and has been getting very favorable press and so far Snow Leopard looks like an unmarketable upgrade

So what about Windows 7? It's nice, yes (I'm dual-booting it on my iMac at the moment) - but it still feels behind OSX, and the reason it's been getting 'favorable' press is because it's a huge improvement over Vista. Well - Snow Leopard as an 'unmarketable upgrade' - erm, what? Potentially huge speed improvements?

-Zune HD is coming this fall and the iPod Touch is starting to seem dated in terms of display technology and hardware features

Which was also said about the original Zune in relation to the iPod. The Zune HD does look like it has great software - and it's always great to have competition - but the Zune brand itself has hardly captured the imagination. Just because it has great specs means nothing whatsoever.

-PSP GO! will compete with the iPod Touch's ability to download games over Wi-Fi

What? Seriously? The iPod Touch and the PSP GO are different gadgets entirely. Both might play music/games but both have different focuses - a bit of a misguided comparison.

-XBOX 360 will soon allow for full game downloads, something Apple should have been getting into when the Apple TV launched

As above - what the?

-Blu-ray adoption is rapidly increasing and Apple doesn't offer BR drives on any of its products even as a BTO option

'Rapidly increasing' - I think that's a stretch. Apple have been about getting your media in a digital way for a while now, including HD movies. Why take a step back?

-Netbooks are growing in use and Apple has shown no answer to this segment

Netbooks are causing the laptop sector of the PC market problems - because they're a very low margin product. They sell millions, but make very little on each one sold. Does Apple care about doing the same? Just because they aren't doing it doesn't mean they should be doing it.

-Palm Pre is more refined and feature complete than the current iPhone in almost every aspect (i.e. Apple still has the brand advantage and the App Store)

It's certainly the biggest competition for the iPhone so far, and looks fantastic - but Palm are playing catchup in this new generation of phones, and Apple will certainly respond. Is it really more 'refined and feature complete'? Really? Plus the App Store allows 3D games and more complex applications than the Pre will currently allow - it's good competition sure, but hardly something ready to topple the iPhone from its podium.

-Internationally, phones like the one below are being released, and make the current iPhone's imaging hardware look pitiful.

Try using a Samsung touchscreen for more than a day and tell me that!

 

[doubleatheman]

My feelings:

Apple does a better job of making a more well rounded prodct they know works. Unline half baked idieas that get released on other proudcts.

Apple can get away with some of this, they have a coolness factor. This is why "Im a PC".

I will add apple has released nothing groundbreaking in the last 2 years, how can they compete with the original iphone, it was years ahead of the competiton. Saddly you give any manufature the golden 18 months, they will make a good knock-off with better features, this has happend time and time in the past.

Apple seems to have lost some of its touch in the last 2 years, but apple has gone through slow periods in the past, and almost died too. (Thankgoodness microsoft is relaible and slow, oh wait .... they relised vista, nevermind that point. )

Frankly apple is going to have an extremly difficult time downplaying windows 7, its to be honest wonderfull! I dont see apple making any major os changes anytime soon.

Apples lack of awknowlageing BluRay is a mistake, but honestly im still upset sony actually won a format war.

 

[bruinsrme]

The only problem with your points ( WHICH WERE ALL VERY GOOD POINTS ) is that Apple always plays their cards close to their chest. Other companies reveal their products far ahead of launch days and let the anticipation ( and competition ) rise, but Apple always surprises us ( and the competition ) at the last second. Hopefully they continue this trend at WWDC.

other than steve jobs taking a LOA, what surprises that there been?
4870 and 8600 vid card issues?
Push against jailbreaking
2.1 and 2.2 OS updates were underwhelming
i think here is one; google streets for the iphone
Maybe I just missed some of the surprises

 

[Carniphage]

Your litany, seems to reflect Apple's leadership position more than it's weakness.

-Windows 7 will be available Oct 22 (or before) and has been getting very favorable press and so far

Windows 7 is a very public admission that Vista was a mis-step. MS are trying to undo 3 years of train-wreck.

-Zune HD is coming this fall and the iPod Touch is starting to seem dated in terms of display technology and hardware features

The Original Zune was another mis-step. Did you know it was never released outside the US? The Zune HD is an improvement. But it has a low-rez screen, DRM and no application infrastructure. Q: Why didn't MS do this 2 years ago? - A: They are finally following Apple's lead.

-PSP GO! will compete with the iPod Touch's ability to download games over Wi-Fi

A Sony admission that the original PSP was a dog. Too big, too expensive to develop for. They handed the market to Nintendo. After 5 years Sony realise the mistake and dump the disk to copy Apple's direct download model. Sony didn't learn the lesson with the Walkman, and now where is it?

-XBOX 360 will soon allow for full game downloads, something Apple should have been getting into when the Apple TV launched

MS have also woken up to the idea of dumping the disk, and going to Apple's direct download model. Why share revenue with retailers who add nothing?

-Blu-ray adoption is rapidly increasing and Apple doesn't offer BR drives on any of its products even as a BTO option

Dump the disk. Apple's model is that physical media are on their way out. Why should Apple hand revenue to a rival? Perhaps Sony should have their loss-making game studios make iPhone games?

-Netbooks are growing in use and Apple has shown no answer to this segment

Netbooks are not profitable. They are losing money in order to win market share. If HP and Dell set fire to their headquarters, should Apple answer this by doing the same?

-Palm Pre is more refined and feature complete than the current iPhone in almost every aspect (i.e. Apple still has the brand advantage and the App Store)

Another story of how a market leader, Palm, has turned into an Apple follower. Why do you think it took them 2 years to follow the iPhone?

-Internationally, phones like the one below are being released, and make
the current iPhone's imaging hardware look pitiful

If 12 megapixels make a good phone, perhaps they should put a cellphone radio in my Lumix. In case you hadn't noticed, photographers don't snap the cover of Maxim with a cellphone. Cellphones need to offer a Polaroid quality experience, any more is a waste. The iPhone camera *is* sub-par, but let's see what next week brings, eh?

C.

 

[bruinsrme]

Netbooks are not profitable. They are losing money in order to win market share. If HP and Dell set fire to their headquarters, should Apple answer this by doing the same?

Is there any hard proof they are losing money?
Market share is one thing but purposely losing money, find it hard to beleive.
They are definitely not making apple margins but a loss?

 

[Carniphage]

Is there any hard proof they are losing money?
Market share is one thing but purposely losing money, find it hard to beleive.
They are definitely not making apple margins but a loss?

Look at HP's results for a starting point. HP are making a razor thin 5% margin over its *entire* consumer products range. How much profit is in a $300 netbook? And then HP issue a recall. Profits are ultra thin or negative.

Now combine that with lost revenues due to cannibalization of higher-end laptops and you get the netbook profit-loss formula.

They say you can simulate the experience of Yachting, by standing in an ice-cold shower tearing up $50 bills.

You can simulate the experience of Netbooks by torching a warehouse full of mid-range notebooks.

C.

 

[Petoz]

Look at HP's results for a starting point. HP are making a razor thin 5% margin over its *entire* consumer products range. How much profit is in a $300 netbook? And then HP issue a recall. Profits are ultra thin or negative.

Now combine that with lost revenues due to cannibalization of higher-end laptops and you get the netbook profit-loss formula.

They say you can simulate the experience of Yachting, by standing in an ice-cold shower tearing up $50 bills.

You can simulate the experience of Netbooks by torching a warehouse full of mid-range notebooks.

C.

I thought it was illegal to intentionally make a loss on products in order to gain market share? Loss leaders or something. Could be wrong, but it doesnlt seem like a likely thing to do.

 

[bruinsrme]

I thought it was illegal to intentionally make a loss on products in order to gain market share? Loss leaders or something. Could be wrong, but it doesnlt seem like a likely thing to do.

he stated they are not making a profit then switch to razor thin and cannabilizing the laptop market.

taken from this artice

 

[gothamm]

Look at HP's results for a starting point. HP are making a razor thin 5% margin over its *entire* consumer products range. How much profit is in a $300 netbook? And then HP issue a recall. Profits are ultra thin or negative.

Now combine that with lost revenues due to cannibalization of higher-end laptops and you get the netbook profit-loss formula.

They say you can simulate the experience of Yachting, by standing in an ice-cold shower tearing up $50 bills.

You can simulate the experience of Netbooks by torching a warehouse full of mid-range notebooks.

C.

I take it you know of HP's financial statements?

relatively speaking, HP is a monster compared to apple.

 

[Carniphage]

I take it you know of HP's financial statements?
relatively speaking, HP is a monster compared to apple.

HP is big, it several big divisions.

It would be more reasonable to compare Apple to Hewlett Packard's Personal Systems Group - which makes Personal Computers etc.

"Personal Systems Group PSG revenue declined 19% to $8.2 billion
Profit $374 million, or 4.6% of revenue"

Whereas.

"Apple revenue 10/2 billion.
Profit $1.6 billion."

It's a monster all right. Scary!

C.

 

[bruinsrme]

HP is big, it several big divisions.

It would be more reasonable to compare Apple to Hewlett Packard's Personal Systems Group - which makes Personal Computers etc.

"Personal Systems Group PSG revenue declined 19% to $8.2 billion
Profit $374 million, or 4.6% of revenue"

Whereas.

"Apple revenue 10/2 billion.
Profit $1.6 billion."

It's a monster all right. Scary!

C.

So I don't get what you are saying. Ate you implying that their decline in profits are due solely to netbooks?
HP seems to put far more focus on the Busness and Service groups and far less on their consumer groups.

 

[Carniphage]

So I don't get what you are saying. Ate you implying that their decline in profits are due solely to netbooks?

No.

I happen think HP's netbook is a great product.

But HP's PC division's profitability is appalling. And since they moved into Netbooks it has declined. The notion that Apple should duplicate the netbook strategy is absurd.

Netbooks sell well, because they are a steal for consumers. But unfortunately, all that stealing results in empty bank-vaults.

C.

 

[179202]

So what about Windows 7? It's nice, yes (I'm dual-booting it on my iMac at the moment) - but it still feels behind OSX, and the reason it's been getting 'favorable' press is because it's a huge improvement over Vista. Well - Snow Leopard as an 'unmarketable upgrade' - erm, what? Potentially huge speed improvements?

Yes, speed improvements alone won't sell a whole OS. Not to mention that people won't pay for a brand new mac just to see what speed improvements it brings. You are dual booting and microsoft are giving you a chance to try 7 out. Apple cannot do this unless you are an Apple user, and they still won't do it.

Which was also said about the original Zune in relation to the iPod. The Zune HD does look like it has great software - and it's always great to have competition - but the Zune brand itself has hardly captured the imagination. Just because it has great specs means nothing whatsoever.

Couldn't agree more.

What? Seriously? The iPod Touch and the PSP GO are different gadgets entirely. Both might play music/games but both have different focuses - a bit of a misguided comparison.

Couldn't disagree more. The iPod Touch has been marketed by Apple as a gaming console for a while now (just check out some of the adverts on their site) and like it or not, the PSPGo and DSi/DS ARE some of the competition in that sector. It could be argued that both are media devices. Apple gave us the right to make this comparison when it started marketing itself to that market audience.

'Rapidly increasing' - I think that's a stretch. Apple have been about getting your media in a digital way for a while now, including HD movies. Why take a step back?

It IS rapidly increasing. Not to mention that downloaded HD movies looking no where near as mind-blowing as Blu Ray images. The quality just isn't there yet and a lot of people, consumers and professionals, wouldn't say no to this addition. It's not a step back...Apple could still offer downloads of [inferior quality] HD TV shows/movies. Adding a blu-ray player in macs would be a very marketable feature and giver users a better disk drive and the best of both worlds. The licensing seems to be the only thing holding Apple back.

Netbooks are causing the laptop sector of the PC market problems - because they're a very low margin product. They sell millions, but make very little on each one sold. Does Apple care about doing the same? Just because they aren't doing it doesn't mean they should be doing it.

They've said they have no interest in making a crappy computer, they said they 'simply don't know how to do that'. Apple WILL bring out a product for this space, it will just be a little different to what we expect from a netbook. Like it or not, Apple does have investors.

It's certainly the biggest competition for the iPhone so far, and looks fantastic - but Palm are playing catchup in this new generation of phones, and Apple will certainly respond. Is it really more 'refined and feature complete'? Really? Plus the App Store allows 3D games and more complex applications than the Pre will currently allow - it's good competition sure, but hardly something ready to topple the iPhone from its podium.

Again, couldn't agree more. Everyone seems to forget that the Pre is america only for now too which is HUGELY limiting. It won't be 'killing' the iPhone anytime soon.

Try using a Samsung touchscreen for more than a day and tell me that!

Samsung touchscreens are the reason I won't be looking at that phone. I don't think I've used a touchscreen as good as the one on the iPhone.

 

[179202]

Your litany, seems to reflect Apple's leadership position more than it's weakness.



Windows 7 is a very public admission that Vista was a mis-step. MS are trying to undo 3 years of train-wreck.



The Original Zune was another mis-step. Did you know it was never released outside the US? The Zune HD is an improvement. But it has a low-rez screen, DRM and no application infrastructure. Q: Why didn't MS do this 2 years ago? - A: They are finally following Apple's lead.



A Sony admission that the original PSP was a dog. Too big, too expensive to develop for. They handed the market to Nintendo. After 5 years Sony realise the mistake and dump the disk to copy Apple's direct download model. Sony didn't learn the lesson with the Walkman, and now where is it?


MS have also woken up to the idea of dumping the disk, and going to Apple's direct download model. Why share revenue with retailers who add nothing?


Dump the disk. Apple's model is that physical media are on their way out. Why should Apple hand revenue to a rival? Perhaps Sony should have their loss-making game studios make iPhone games?


Netbooks are not profitable. They are losing money in order to win market share. If HP and Dell set fire to their headquarters, should Apple answer this by doing the same?


Another story of how a market leader, Palm, has turned into an Apple follower. Why do you think it took them 2 years to follow the iPhone?


If 12 megapixels make a good phone, perhaps they should put a cellphone radio in my Lumix. In case you hadn't noticed, photographers don't snap the cover of Maxim with a cellphone. Cellphones need to offer a Polaroid quality experience, any more is a waste. The iPhone camera *is* sub-par, but let's see what next week brings, eh?

C.

I'm sorry to say that these companies are NOT copying 'Apple's direct download model'. A quick google will show you plenty of companies doing this and also companies theorising about it when Apple was still a pipe dream.

IN response to your notion of 'cellphones needs to offer a Polaroid quality experience, any more is a waste' - what complete twoddle! If you had a great camera in your phone for no extra cost, you'd use it and get used to that standard. Exactly what happened with me and my old Sony phone. Theres no telling what could happen in the next few years/future. Covers of Maxim could well be shot using a mobile phone camera. It would be more convenient that's for sure. Once the tech is there and affordable, it'll happen.