iPhone firmware update 1.1.1 released!

[PDE]

I'm holding a box right here and it says nothing of the kind.

Well, that's what it says on my box and that's what it said on the box of the previous iphone I have. Perhaps you have an older iphone and they added it later?

It's in the first footnote:

"1) Credit check required;must be 18 years or older. Service plan with At&t required for cellular network capabilities on expiration of initial new two-year agreement..."

 

[thomasfxlt]

And if you think someone is gonna read it now.....Come on dude!

Like it or not, when you bought and started using your phone, you became party to the license agreement. Your own the HARDWARE and you have an agreement to USE the software, subject to Apples terms and conditions explicitly spelled out in the previously posted documents. Stella makes a good point that in Europe, overly oppressive agreements have been challenged, but software license agreements like this are pretty standard in America.

My point is that the information has been there all along. The fact that we choose not to read it or ignore it does not somehow exempt us from it's terms. You are party to it. If you read it carefully, the agreement explicitly states that Apple can revoke the license (essentially bricking the phone)at any time the terms and conditions have been violated. I hope they will restore bricked phones, but the point is made.

 

[mccldwll]

Enough already

Not in your country, probably not. However, in other parts of the world, consumer rights are more actively protected against contracts that are deemed too one sided towards the company ( read: unfair contracts ). The EU takes consumer rights very seriously and I'll be interested to see what happens in a few years time.

A coherent statement by Stella [finally].

This thread has been a huge waste of time and mainly a rehash of earlier threads--many people just whining about how Apple's actions "must" be illegal since they don't like the consequences. Get a life. You may not like it, and it may not be "fair" that things aren't as you wish them to be, but that's the way it is, for now. Get over it. For anyone just joining, save yourself some time and read the posts by Matticus008--someone who actually knows whereof he speaks (there are others, but he covers it well, objectively, politely, and patiently).

(And stop worrying about what happens when initial two year agreement ends. It should be a quite different landscape by then)

 

[nyboilermaker]

Good point.
Here is all I want in the "Oct. Update"
DELETE ALL MAIL IN MY INBOX OPTION

Amen.

 

[Gonzlobo]

I want the option to delete video & audio netcasts on my command. Why did they remove it?

 

[Palestrina]

No Mac user is getting screwed over by Apple. They're only getting screwed over by their own incorrect expectations. Apple has clearly indicated that the iPhone is a closed platform. It has more recently indicated that any hacks to the iPhone could potentially render the device inoperable. And yet people who are intelligent enough to install the hacks evidently aren't intelligent enough to take these warnings seriously or consider the consequences.

Simply purchasing at full price does not mean that the company that manufactures the product is responsible for any damages that users make to it due to their desires to hack or mod it. A person who purchases a new car and decides that, as their right, they prefer to run nitro glycerin through the internal combustion engine instead of unleaded is probably not going to be covered under the warranty when they take their puddle of metal to the dealer for repairs. And that's actually a good thing for consumers.

Apple similarly is not under any requirement to make certain that whatever modifications you make to the phone are going to be covered when the software is updated. No one is arguing that it isn't your right to try to hack or mod your phone. It's also your right to put it in the microwave to see what will happen or to test its aerodynamic properties by using it as frisbee. Installing update 1.1.1 on a hacked iPhone is like throwing the device at a brick wall.

And there really isn't an issue at this point with Apple denying customers choices. Apple was up front that the iPhone is a closed platform. If a customer doesn't like it they can go elsewhere. There are plenty of choices.

Should the iPhone be an open system? That's another debate. But as of now the product that Apple is selling isn't open and if customer decides to make changes to the device it's at their own risk, whether they like it or not.

Stella, please read G4R2's response many times until it sinks in. Personally, I don't have an iPhone as you assumed, but if I did, I'd be smart enough to follow Apple's recommendations so I'm not stuck with an iBrick.

 

[pale9]

sorry about duplicat message, how to delete?

...

 

[megfilmworks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GgG2rrTkC8

The truth can be hidden no longer....

Doesn't look like they used a very good morphing program. Must be a PC.

 

[pale9]

The shocking truth about Steve Jobs

The truth can be hidden no more...

...bricking iphones....itunes only music....2 year phone contract...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GgG2rrTkC8

 

[pale9]

Doesn't look like they used a very good morphing program. Must be a PC.

nope, it was morphx for the mac. only thing i found quickly that was free. what would you recomment, other than expensive pro software?

 

[rbell]

iToner sorta working on 1.1.1

I just transfered a "legitimate" ringtone–a ringtone purchased via iTunes–with iToner. So it seems that the program itself is still accessing the iPhone (also evidenced by the fact iToners shows ringtones synced w/iTunes). Its just that there's some new magic in the way the iPhone looks at the ringtones. Though that doesn't explain why your old iToner ringtones still work if you dont access the ringtone menu....

 

[paymaster]

Regardless of whether you think Apple had the right to do what they did, a better question to ask was it the right thing to do. It can not be good business to tick off so many customers. It is certainly not good public relations. Instead of talking about surging sales and great products, the press will be talking about how Apple turned their customers phones into useless bricks and how they have all these outraged customers.

The thing is, they probably didn't have to disable the phones. The hackers were able to make changes without disabling it, do you really think Apple couldn't have done it. Oh, my opinion on it, the phones worked before the update, they didn't after, Apple broke them. And an awful lot of the unlocked phones out there are being used in other countries or areas that do not have AT&T so without the unlocks, these sales would have never happened. Apple benefited from these sales, and happily took their money.

I did not unlock my phone. I have no problem with AT&T. I tried third party apps but didn't really see anything I wanted so I took them off. My phone after the update works fine. I have been a huge fan of Apple but they have made a number of decisions lately that reek of arrogance and a total disregard of some of their biggest supporters. I still love my phone, but Apple has taken the joy away.

I have a feeling that in a week or two, Apple will try to play the hero and come up with something that activates the phones and people will be thanking them for being so kind. Apple will then say "from now on be a good customer and do what you are told."

 

[stonedgrace]

I just transfered a "legitimate" ringtone–a ringtone purchased via iTunes–with iToner. So it seems that the program itself is still accessing the iPhone (also evidenced by the fact iToners shows ringtones synced w/iTunes). Its just that there's some new magic in the way the iPhone looks at the ringtones. Though that doesn't explain why your old iToner ringtones still work if you dont access the ringtone menu....

Exactly. I believe its all about the actual ringtone file.
I wish someone with some actual programming knowledge would step back in and figure this out.
We have shown that we can still add working ringtones to the phone using some of the old methods. We need to figure out why that works, and what makes a ringtone a ringtone.

 

[Tangenten]

Something is missing here...

Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently. They’re not found of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them. Disagree with them. Glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you cannot do is ignore them. Because they change things.
They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

 

[Veritas&Equitas]

Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently. They’re not found of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them. Disagree with them. Glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you cannot do is ignore them. Because they change things.
They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

B/c quoting the Jobsness himself establishes what about this issue...??? A more contradictory/hypocritical approach to the iPhone update debacle?

 

[mccldwll]

Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.
The ones who see things differently. They’re not found of rules, and they have no respect for the status quo.
You can quote them. Disagree with them. Glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you cannot do is ignore them. Because they change things.
They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do.

True. And one who certainly belongs at the head of that list is Jobs. Anyone who that thinks he/she is going to change the world by bitching and moaning about rules and contracts, and thinks that unlocking an iPhone is courageous, think again. Jobs is changing the balance of power in the telecom industry, from the inside out, and the telecom companies are scared sh*tless. You don't have to be a fanboy to see what Jobs is doing, and where we may be in just a few years with nearly free wireless networks. If you really want to change the world for the better, throw some support behind someone who is actually working, and able, to do so.

 

[Tangenten]

Here's a hint

B/c quoting the Jobsness himself establishes what about this issue...??? A more contradictory/hypocritical approach to the iPhone update debacle?

It's not about corporate worshipping...

 

[Stella]

Stella, please read G4R2's response many times until it sinks in. Personally, I don't have an iPhone as you assumed, but if I did, I'd be smart enough to follow Apple's recommendations so I'm not stuck with an iBrick.

Why? I don't agree with apple's anti-consumer stance. End of Story.

 

[HLdan]

Regardless of whether you think Apple had the right to do what they did, a better question to ask was it the right thing to do. It can not be good business to tick off so many customers. It is certainly not good public relations. Instead of talking about surging sales and great products, the press will be talking about how Apple turned their customers phones into useless bricks and how they have all these outraged customers.

The thing is, they probably didn't have to disable the phones. The hackers were able to make changes without disabling it, do you really think Apple couldn't have done it. Oh, my opinion on it, the phones worked before the update, they didn't after, Apple broke them. And an awful lot of the unlocked phones out there are being used in other countries or areas that do not have AT&T so without the unlocks, these sales would have never happened. Apple benefited from these sales, and happily took their money.

I did not unlock my phone. I have no problem with AT&T. I tried third party apps but didn't really see anything I wanted so I took them off. My phone after the update works fine. I have been a huge fan of Apple but they have made a number of decisions lately that reek of arrogance and a total disregard of some of their biggest supporters. I still love my phone, but Apple has taken the joy away.

I have a feeling that in a week or two, Apple will try to play the hero and come up with something that activates the phones and people will be thanking them for being so kind. Apple will then say "from now on be a good customer and do what you are told."

LOL, it's all Apple's fault huh? Did you ever think maybe......AT&T threatened to file suit against Apple for not securing the iPhone so hackers couldn't unlock it? Remember that's AT&T's business that got lost, the iPhone isn't all about Apple. Apple has to report to AT&T the quantity of phones sold so AT&T can match activations against phone sales. They made a deal with AT&T and that phone is suppose to be activated by AT&T only, period. End of story.

Apple took their customer's money and then bricked their phones??? HUH??Do you want to explain how Apple "knew" who bought the iPhone and what country the buyer was going to use it in?

It's not a good business practice for Apple to tick off their customers?? Really? Which customers are you referring to? The one's who broke into the phone against Apple's licensing agreement and activated it on unauthorized carrier?

The iPhone is NOT the only smart phone on the market and if people in other countries don't have access to use the phone on AT&T then that's just too bad, they have to buy something else, no law requires you to have an iPhone. Other countries have tons of cool products unavailable to the U.S and many of them don't work with U.S alternating current so we are outta luck.

I would love to see what press publication having the nerve to write a story about how Apple warned hacking customers that their iPhone would get bricked if they install the new update. Truthfully Apple didn't have to say anything. As far as Apple is concerned all of their customers are legit and they had every right to send forth the update without mentioning anything and it would not be unlawful.
There's no court of law that would find in favor of uninformed hackers.

 

[mccldwll]

Why? I don't agree with apple's anti-consumer stance. End of Story.

Why do you insist on viewing this like a middle school student, where if things aren't as you want them to be at the moment, it must be wrong or, as you put it, "anti-consumer?"
Do you really think for one minute that Apple could have introduced the iPhone, which challenges the existing power structure and business model in the telecom industry, without cutting a deal with one of the telecoms? It's the exclusivity ("locked") nature of the iPhone that made AT&T upgrade its system so that it would perform as promised, and succeed. Part and parcel of any exclusivity agreement would be for Apple to utilize its best efforts to keep it exclusive; i.e., create obstacles to unlocking. Grownups cover those bases, and AT&T is about as grown up as they come. The update/upgrade format is ideal in that respect, since purchasers can do whatever they want to the iPhone once purchased, but don't expect future upgrades to work right if they do. AT&T doesn't have to threaten to sue Apple; Apple is already contractually obligated to do whatever is possible to keep it locked, and with defined financial consequences if it doesn't. That's not "anti-consumer", that's just the way it is if you want to introduce a product successfully. People keep bringing up the "subscription revenue" as the reason Apple keeps the phone locked. No one knows whether these actually exist, and if they do, how much (and even if they do, and are $X amount/month, that could be deferred revenue from the initial sales to make sure Apple keeps it locked). Do you actually believe that if Apple could choose, it would prefer subscription revenue in a locked system over selling an unrestricted phone which could be used, SUCCESSFULLY, anywhere in the world, on any network? I don't, and neither do others who have undertaken a serious examination of the iPhone business model. So you can keep whining, kicking and screaming about how Apple is "anti-consumer" if you want, or you can make an effort to try to understand the situation, and realize that probably, eventually you will get what you want. Just not now.

 

[shiunn]

Do you really think for one minute that Apple could have introduced the iPhone, which challenges the existing power structure and business model in the telecom industry, without cutting a deal with one of the telecoms? It's the exclusivity ("locked") nature of the iPhone that made AT&T upgrade its system so that it would perform as promised, and succeed.

The pressure is indeed on AT&T to have the iPhone continued to be locked. Otherwise they would have upgraded their system (to support visual voicemail) for nothing. Then again, iPhone would still be attractive without visual voicemail. So, Apple wouldn't have needed an exclusive carrier to support this new feature in the first place.

 

[PDE]

LOL, it's all Apple's fault huh? Did you ever think maybe......AT&T threatened to file suit against Apple for not securing the iPhone so hackers couldn't unlock it? Remember that's AT&T's business that got lost, the iPhone isn't all about Apple. Apple has to report to AT&T the quantity of phones sold so AT&T can match activations against phone sales. They made a deal with AT&T and that phone is suppose to be activated by AT&T only, period. End of story.

Apple took their customer's money and then bricked their phones??? HUH??Do you want to explain how Apple "knew" who bought the iPhone and what country the buyer was going to use it in?


There's no court of law that would find in favor of uninformed hackers.

1. APple has known for a long time that phones that were purchased in the US are unlocked and used outside the country, unless they don't at all follow the news.

2. They sell phones to tourists who show foreign IDs (passports) when they buy them in the store. Sure, some may be gifts to American friends, but most are most likely not.

3. Apple doesn't require activation in the store, so they are contributing actively to this problem.

4. They have clear statistics of how many phones have been sold vs. how many have been activated on ATT. Look at the initial statistics from ATT where it was reportewd that many fewer iphones had been activated than previously thought. A week later, Apple reports that it had sold many many more than ATT reported. Gosh, I wonder why the discrepency! Duh.

Apple has known for a long time about this problem, yet continued to sell their phones to anybody without any requirement of activation.Sorry, but those who let Apple off the hook are way off on this one.

 

[thomasfxlt]

1. APple has known for a long time that phones that were purchased in the US are unlocked and used outside the country, unless they don't at all follow the news.

2. They sell phones to tourists who show foreign IDs (passports) when they buy them in the store. Sure, some may be gifts to American friends, but most are most likely not.

3. Apple doesn't require activation in the store, so they are contributing actively to this problem.

4. They have clear statistics of how many phones have been sold vs. how many have been activated on ATT. Look at the initial statistics from ATT where it was reportewd that many fewer iphones had been activated than previously thought. A week later, Apple reports that it had sold many many more than ATT reported. Gosh, I wonder why the discrepency! Duh.

Apple has known for a long time about this problem, yet continued to sell their phones to anybody without any requirement of activation.Sorry, but those who let Apple off the hook are way off on this one.

The iTunes activation is an extension of "the Store" without having the inconvenience of doing it at the brick and mortar location. The fact that people disregard their software license agreement and mess with the phone is their problem.

 

[PDE]

The iTunes activation is an extension of "the Store" without having the inconvenience of doing it at the brick and mortar location. The fact that people disregard their software license agreement and mess with the phone is their problem.

Yeah, except that the software license agreement is buried deep inside the iphone, only accessible after you have:

a) opened the box

b) activated the phone through ATT

c) managed to find it: settings - general - about - scroll down to the legal section (which isn't visible until you start scrolling - and why would you given the other kind of info there - firmware number, serial number etc) and read through 50 pages or whatever of other legal notices.

Sure the customer could ask for a copy of the agreement before they buy, but who ever does that? If Apple were really sincere, they'd put up a note with the basic requirements AND legal conditions (or have them easily accessible in the store, and they would make sure that activation is done immediately. Regrettably, they're too busy selling phones to care.

 

[Sobe]

Yeah, except that the software license agreement is buried deep inside the iphone, only accessible after you have:

a) opened the box

b) activated the phone through ATT

c) managed to find it: settings - general - about - scroll down to the legal section (which isn't visible until you start scrolling - and why would you given the other kind of info there - firmware number, serial number etc) and read through 50 pages or whatever of other legal notices.

Sure the customer could ask for a copy of the agreement before they buy, but who ever does that? If Apple were really sincere, they'd put up a note with the basic requirements AND legal conditions (or have them easily accessible in the store, and they would make sure that activation is done immediately. Regrettably, they're too busy selling phones to care.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous.

No reasonable person would think that hacking and unlocking is acceptable in any licensing agreement.

Basically anything outside of the step by step instructions necessary to turn the phone on, plug it into your pc/mac, and activate it via iTunes is something someone would have to do deliberately to circumvent a very obvious path of use.

You're making it sound as if the licensing agreement were more prominently displayed the hackers would all send out a collective gasp and say "ooooh we had no idea, but now we know so we won't try to hack the iPhone any longer."