iPhone maybe 3G!?

[Sbrocket]

well then they will be in a heap load of trouble with the FCC. i doubt they want to pay hefty fines. like i said, the only way it could be there is if they documents are under some sort of confidentiality so the public wouldn't know. the ones that are released says nothing about a 3G chip, nor is the iphone listed under 3G devices on the FCC's website.

As I already said, the actual technical documents given to the FCC for approval are under permanent confidentiality and even the other ones are under temporary confidentiality but haven't yet reached their release date. It is possible.

 

[hkb]

ok, i'll bite, for now.

sounds like you are confident on this, but if its true, then why isn't the 3G capability listed in the FCC documents? why was it not mentioned in january? was it part of apple's plan to please us with software updates?

I have no idea and I'm not in a position to know. I'm an ASIC engineer. I've never even seen a full iPhone in person. I assume that the information is confidential or they somehow got the device approved as-is, and will do the 3G radio FCC testing at a later date. I honestly have no idea. But the 3G radio is in there, in addition to the GSM kit.

i mean, i'd love 3G, IM, MMS, Mp3 rintones, etc ... to be enabled via software update in the future, but i dont see all that happening. if you aren't full of it, which i assume you are, then are you saying that the FCC kept those documents secret until apple wants it to be known? does apple really have that big a pull that the FCC will follow their instructions? i highly doubt it.

Again, I have no idea concerning this. I'd assume they're confidential, or will be tested at a later date prior to a software enabler. It's reasonable to assume that Apple doesn't have much power to throw around a heavyweight government agency such as the FCC.

I suspect the real answer is much less "black bag" than that.

 

[peaviner]

Not even CLOSE to being possible.

Not just for all the technical reasons posted above.... but also for one big other reason: ATT does NOT even have a 3G network!

That's funny, 'cause I'm sitting here looking at my Motorola V3xx from Cingular/ATT and it says "3G" up at the top. Must be a mistake...

 

[hkb]

As I already said, the actual technical documents given to the FCC for approval are under permanent confidentiality and even the other ones are under temporary confidentiality but haven't yet reached their release date. It is possible.

Indeed. The first take-apart of the iPhone on Flickr should start off a race to beat Apple with an enabler. FWIW, Apple has their hands tied in this matter.

 

[JoJoCal19]

If this is true then I will absolutely be the happiest person in the world. To me 3G was almost a deal breaker and really my only drawback to the iPhone. However I overcame that and will get one for sure.

I do believe that if Apple were to spend as much as they did developing the iPhone and truly wanted it to be the best and put everything else cutting edge in it, they wouldnt skimp on the radio and not include a 3G chip. I just cant believe they would do that.

 

[sananda]

i guess someone will take apart an iphone soon and we'll find out what's inside.

 

[hkb]

If this is true then I will absolutely be the happiest person in the world. To me 3G was almost a deal breaker and really my only drawback to the iPhone. However I overcame that and will get one for sure.

I do believe that if Apple were to spend as much as they did developing the iPhone and truly wanted it to be the best and put everything else cutting edge in it, they wouldnt skimp on the radio and not include a 3G chip. I just cant believe they would do that.

Just look at the available carrier chipsets. It's hard to find high-end chipsets that AREN'T 3G.

FWIW, the model in question is the MSM7600:

http://www.cdmatech.com/products/msm7600_chipset_solution.jsp

 

[JoJoCal19]

Just look at the available carrier chipsets. It's hard to find high-end chipsets that AREN'T 3G.

FWIW, the model in question is the MSM7600:

http://www.cdmatech.com/products/msm7600_chipset_solution.jsp

So youre saying the iPhone has the MSM7600? I guess someone should crack one open and see if the chipset is in fact a MSM7600.

I seriously hope you are not ******** me hkb becuz I will be so happy and also tell those who said "Ill wait for v2 with 3G" if it does have this chip or a chip that has 3G capability out of the box.

 

[hkb]

So youre saying the iPhone has the MSM7600? I guess someone should crack one open and see if the chipset is in fact a MSM7600.

I seriously hope you are not ******** me hkb becuz I will be so happy and also tell those who said "Ill wait for v2 with 3G" if it does have this chip or a chip that has 3G capability out of the box.

That is what I'm hinting, yes 😉

Please keep in mind that although the capability is there, it's quite possible it may never be enabled. Apple's done this before with hidden 802.11n functionality in their Macbook laptops that could later be enabled for a small fee.

I can think of a few reasons why it might not:

1.) The ITC/Qualcomm thing may never be resolved in an acceptable manner. In addition to the Apple iPhone, other mobile phone manufacturers are also disabling the applicable functionality in shipping units to bypass the embargo. Sprint and Samsung are also doing this.

2.) Apple may never be able to get battery life to an acceptable level with 3G usage. I know that this has been a concern of the Apple engineers we've spoken to.

3.) It may not be cost-beneficial to Apple to enable it.

That said, I know that folks in Apple are hopeful a workable solution will be found, both legally and technologically. They've been updating the iPhone up until a few weeks ago.

 

[icechunk]

Interesting

I read somewhere that your FTC filing has to declare the bands you are using, not all that the device is capable of. I could be COMPLETELY wrong on this one.

But why would Apple hide this fact, when so many reviewers are complaining about lack of 3G support?

But then again, they have to launch iphone in the rest of the world with 3G and they won't make 2 version of the same phone in such a short time.

 

[hkb]

But why would Apple hide this fact, when so many reviewers are complaining about lack of 3G support?

Again, I've listed a few reasons above. Although I truly don't know. We just sell them the chips and contract with them as technical advisors on how to integrate them into their design.

But then again, they have to launch iphone in the rest of the world with 3G and they won't make 2 version of the same phone in such a short time.

You are correct.

 

[sananda]

That is what I'm hinting, yes 😉

Please keep in mind that although the capability is there, it's quite possible it may never be enabled. Apple's done this before with hidden 802.11n functionality in their Macbook laptops that could later be enabled for a small fee.

I can think of a few reasons why it might not:

1.) The ITC/Qualcomm thing may never be resolved in an acceptable manner. In addition to the Apple iPhone, other mobile phone manufacturers are also disabling the applicable functionality in shipping units to bypass the embargo. Sprint and Samsung are also doing this.

2.) Apple may never be able to get battery life to an acceptable level with 3G usage. I know that this has been a concern of the Apple engineers we've spoken to.

3.) It may not be cost-beneficial to Apple to enable it.

That said, I know that folks in Apple are hopeful a workable solution will be found, both legally and technologically. They've been updating the iPhone up until a few weeks ago.

but jobs said this in today's wsj:

"When we looked at 3G, the chipsets are not quite mature, in the sense that they're not low-enough power for what we were looking for. They were not integrated enough, so they took up too much physical space. We cared a lot about battery life and we cared a lot about physical size. Down the road, I'm sure some of those tradeoffs will become more favorable towards 3G but as of now we think we made a pretty good doggone decision".

 

[hkb]

To reply to the private messages I've gotten. Please, just ask here.

To answer the most common questions:

The main processor in the iPhone is the Marvell PXA320 (aka "Monahan") processor. The processors on the eval boards were clocked at 806mhz, but I suspect that with the current battery specs, they are underclocking it to 624 mhz or possibly even 400mhz.

It does have a graphics co-processor and that is an NVidia GoForce (Yes Go, not Ge) chip. I'm sorry but I don't have the manufacturer part # for it. It does had 3D acceleration. No idea on video ram specs.

 

[LoganT]

Not even CLOSE to being possible.

Not just for all the technical reasons posted above.... but also for one big other reason: ATT does NOT even have a 3G network!

That's where you're wrong.

 

[TaylorB]

If they don't have a 3G network why do they sell 3G phones and have a 3G coverage area map?

 

[sananda]

To reply to the private messages I've gotten. Please, just ask here.

To answer the most common questions:

The main processor in the iPhone is the Marvell PXA320 (aka "Monahan") processor. The processors on the eval boards were clocked at 806mhz, but I suspect that with the current battery specs, they are underclocking it to 624 mhz or possibly even 400mhz.

It does have a graphics co-processor and that is an NVidia GoForce (Yes Go, not Ge) chip. I'm sorry but I don't have the manufacturer part # for it. It does had 3D acceleration. No idea on video ram specs.

doesn't the Marvell PXA320 include gps capability?

 

[hkb]

doesn't the Marvell PXA320 include gps capability?

I don't believe so, but I'd have to check the docs. If it did, it'd be an A-GPS (Assisted GPS), which isn't like a normal GPS. This causes much confusion with the community. The MSM7600 chipset does have an A-GPS module. Again, this isn't the same or as accurate as a normal GPS. A Google search can explain it further.

In other words, don't get your hopes up.

 

[1996Mac]

Great Points!

Quote:
Originally Posted by carfac
Not even CLOSE to being possible.

Not just for all the technical reasons posted above.... but also for one big other reason: ATT does NOT even have a 3G network!

That's funny, 'cause I'm sitting here looking at my Motorola V3xx from Cingular/ATT and it says "3G" up at the top. Must be a mistake...

But then again, they have to launch iphone in the rest of the world with 3G and they won't make 2 version of the same phone in such a short time.

If they don't have a 3G network why do they sell 3G phones and have a 3G coverage area map?

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/technology/3g-umts.jsp

 

[Deanster]

Holy crap, HKB...

I'm torn between disbelief, and the thought that there's no reason for you to be so specific without it being 100% correct.

That chipset's spec sheet says it does HSDPA/UMTS, EVDO, and A-GPS natively, with specific intent to be the foundation of a multimedia platform, with turn-by-turn GPS offerings and state of the art 3G data....

Assuming you're correct, Uncle Steve has been hiding a HUGE piece or two of potential functionality...

your words have the ring of truth, and mirror my own understanding/wishful thinking - the whole notion that this wouldn't be a 3G device has just been not sitting well with me, given the European rollout, and my conception that they've built the iPhone hardware as a platform they intend to keep around for a while - I don't see big changes in the next year/18 months, by which time not having 3G just won't be an option.

For as much hassle as they've taken for EDGE, the reality is that they're MUCH better off selling it as a slightly slow device that works at full speed most places, than as a fast device that only works at full speed in the few places where AT&T has full 3G coverage. That approach allows them to sell millions of units to people in EDGE coverage, rather than it being something that only people in HSDPA/UMTS coverage zones buy.

With your posts, I'm imagining that Steve has a plan in just a few months to announce that he's flipping a switch, and making the iPhone the most-common 3G device in the world... but then, I'm a dreamer. Same story with GPS.

In the meantime, since I'm living in Seattle, which has complete 3G coverage, it's going to be hard living with EDGE until the day when/if it comes available...

 

[hkb]

Holy crap, HKB...

I'm torn between disbelief, and the thought that there's no reason for you to be so specific without it being 100% correct.

That chipset's spec sheet says it does HSDPA/UMTS, EVDO, and A-GPS natively, with specific intent to be the foundation of a multimedia platform, with turn-by-turn GPS offerings and state of the art 3G data....

After an inquiry on my part today at work, it does appear that Apple plans to enable HSDPA functionality in the near-future. At this point we're waiting on a go ahead from the ITC. I don't have any timeline, just a "yes, stay tuned".

It is my belief that Apple has no interest in utilizing the GPS functionality. We've consulted with them about HSDPA drivers, but to my knowledge there's been no inquiries about the A-GPS functionality.

Anyway, today is when the iPhone is released and someone will inevitably tear it apart and post internal pictures.

 

[flok]

A new 3G version of the iPhone will be launched Monday in the UK?

A new 3G (European) version of the iPhone will be launched Monday in the UK by Apple - in a join promotion with Vodafone, T-Mobile of Germany, and Carphone Warehouse. It should answer the disappointment with the US version of the iPhone which has been widely slammed for its poor performance as a phone.

Hints of the European launch emerged yesterday when Bill Condie of the London Evening Standard tipped Vodafone to be the official carrier, which will be confirmed Monday. But Voda is just part of the picture, with Apple going for a three-pronged European strategy with carriers - again, responding to disappointment in America with the exclusive deal with AT&T/Cingular.

Shipment date is still unknown, but "on course" for the year-end date predicted last October by Apple CEO Steve Jobs.

http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/3466

Let's see if this is true. Prices will proabably be even higher here, so I'm still thinking about getting the edge version.

 

[iPwn]

This reminds me of the Wii with no HD you think it will be like ohh thats stupid but its all good and really are you gonna want to use 3g i mean no network has yet to get a super fast connection to get to the internet i am fine with wi-fi

 

[Mac-Addict]

I hope they only announce it not start selling them! Why should we get to miss out on all the fun of lining up?! xD

 

[hkb]

There is no new 3G model. The US version also contains (albeit disabled) 3G technology. The iPhone uses the Qualcomm MSM7600 chipset, which is quite flexible.

It is currently disabled for reasons concerning the current Qualcomm/USITC embargo and power consumption concerns. 3g functionality will probably be available via a software update shortly.

See my posts in this thread for further information.

 

[ABM]

Empty Space in iPhone? What for? 3G in European / 2Rev?