iPhone photography - accuracy and expression

[Ukiyo Evenings]

Hello fine members of the forum! I'd like to know what those of you who regularly use dedicated cameras think of the photos taken with your iPhones.

I ask because the last time I enjoyed shooting with a phone was when shooting with my S6 Edge Plus (28mm focal length; samples attached) back in 2016-17. Since then, it seems that a combination of shorter focal lengths and aggressive use of computational effects has generated a shooting experience that appeals to the wider public, but may not allow for photographic expression in a way that I find accurate to the scene or what I want to capture.

I'm not a fan of artificially generated bokeh nor do I need capturing a wider FOV at the expense of straight lines converging/diverging unnaturally if the shot is taken at even a slight angle. As for dark scenes, I would rather have the dark areas remain their degrees of dark and true to the actual mood, than artificially brightened.

I'm aware that all photography is processed and subjective, and that we are privileged to have such power in our pockets now, but still... 😊 Also, I looked through the iPhone 11 photography thread and while I saw some fine shots, I also saw examples of what I described above. So, once again - and pocketablity aside - what do you make of your iPhone shooting experience relative to that with your dedicated cameras?

 

[kenoh]

I think for short to medium subject distances in reasonable light, the camera on our phones is a convenient and generally competent tool. However, as we move into more demanding requirements such as long telephoto, long exposure or distant subjects, then the limitations begin to manifest measurably, thus making us reach for a dedicated camera.

Personally, I enjoy the mechanics of taking an image on a camera and I don't get that with my phone. This means my phone is relegated to predominantly use for just snaps. Everyone is different and is on a different journey, this is just my perspective and personal preference. In reality, I just really enjoy using a camera.

I think the computational aspects are great for those not taking the images for the sake of making an artistic outcome. They are great for "generation-now", those who want to take what they perceive as good photos but who similarly are not interested in learning the more technical aspects of making images with a camera (hope this makes sense i.e. they just aren't THAT into it).

Everyone likes what they like and that is what makes the world interesting right? We expand our tolerances and reduce our biases through exploring differences. I agree with you, the fake bokeh effect to me is as cringey as a nasty overcooked HDR image but having said that, there are also examples like you say of well executed use of the effects. Hell, even on a good day when my camera wants to play nice and make me happy, I make a mess of images. It just reinforces that the device is a tool and the magic is in the craftsperson using the tool.

Each to their own and long may our differences encourage us to educate ourselves and expand our knowledge and understanding.

Monolog over.... I am off to try and rescue some crappy snaps from yesterday.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

I'm a little confused @Ukiyo Evenings ! If you know how to touch the screen for a slightly longer time and that then enables controlled exposure on a mobile phone why isn't that working for you? Just with that basic manipulation you should be able to achieve what you mention on any mobile phone these days. I'm confused, did I mention that I'm confused. Oh, bother, now I'm confused about whether I mentioned my confusion... 🤔 😊 🤣

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

Everyone likes what they like and that is what makes the world interesting right? We expand our tolerances and reduce our biases through exploring differences ... It just reinforces that the device is a tool and the magic is in the craftsperson using the tool.

Each to their own and long may our differences encourage us to educate ourselves and expand our knowledge and understanding.

I agree with you entirely. This approach to our differences can be applied to so many areas in life for a much richer experience overall.

Now, as for the tool... I also agree that gen-now isn't "THAT into it" - I'm 33 and the majority of my peers and younger seem very happy with the current trend in phone cameras, and not all that interested in the workings involved in making the tool achieve one's artistic ideal.

I'm a little confused! If you know how to touch the screen for a slightly longer time and that then enables controlled exposure on a mobile phone why isn't that working for you? Just with that basic manipulation you should be able to achieve what you mention on any mobile phone these days.

Haha, it's not just about exposure control. I guess I could simplify my concerns as: lens distortion, colour and lighting accuracy, wanting a less 'processed' image when shooting in auto. It's only today that a fellow member recommended using the Lightroom app to capture RAW and process it; doing so has breathed new life into my Galaxy S9 and consequently I assume I can look forward to a similar experience on an iPhone. For context, I did use the Pro mode on my S9 and was still not happy with it; on the other hand shooting both auto and manual on my S6 Edge Plus yielded consistently more pleasing results.

Or to put it simpler still: do you use a separate camera and enjoy photography? If so, what are your opinions of the iPhone as a tool, compared to other phones, and given my considerations mentioned above? You know that feeling when you enjoy a camera? It doesn't have to be the most spec laden technological wonder, but the images are lovely. I got that with my Ricoh GR and older Samsung.

 

[deep diver]

I think it is safe to say that very few people in this forum use a phone as their primary camera. Regardless of what the phone can do, it will still be less than a DSLR or Mirrorless, and some appropriate post processing. Regardless of the camera (digital or film, manual or automated controls, lenses, flash, etc) expression is entirely a function of the photographer. The equipment is only a tool to help actualize the vision. There is a lot of high quality work that was shot with a phone, just as there is a lot of poor quality work that was shot with high end cameras.

Any of us can only tell you about the possibilities and what works best for us. Only you can know what works best for you.

If you can capture your vision with the phone then use the phone, if with a camera then use a camera, and if with both then use both.

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

If you can capture your vision with the phone then use the phone, if with a camera then use a camera, and if with both then use both.

Aye, was happily using both a couple of years ago and lost the phone side of things since. However, as I mentioned, shooting via Lightroom seems to be a much better experience albeit at the expense of launch speed. Going by what you said, this is currently working for me; and I'm curious to learn how the iPhone works for you all as I've not owned one.

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

Hello fine members of the forum! I'd like to know what those of you who regularly use dedicated cameras think of the photos taken with your iPhones.

I think it is safe to say that very few people in this forum use a phone as their primary camera.

Also, I'm new to the forums and had originally posted this in the iPhone forum. @akash.nu suggested that I post here instead for more relevant feedback. Appreciate all the responses 👍

 

[kenoh]

I agree with you entirely. This approach to our differences can be applied to so many areas in life for a much richer experience overall.

Now, as for the tool... I also agree that gen-now isn't "THAT into it" - I'm 33 and the majority of my peers and younger seem very happy with the current trend in phone cameras, and not all that interested in the workings involved in making the tool achieve one's artistic ideal.




Haha, it's not just about exposure control. I guess I could simplify my concerns as: lens distortion, colour and lighting accuracy, wanting a less 'processed' image when shooting in auto. It's only today that a fellow member recommended using the Lightroom app to capture RAW and process it; doing so has breathed new life into my Galaxy S9 and consequently I assume I can look forward to a similar experience on an iPhone. For context, I did use the Pro mode on my S9 and was still not happy with it; on the other hand shooting both auto and manual on my S6 Edge Plus yielded consistently more pleasing results.

Or to put it simpler still: do you use a separate camera and enjoy photography? If so, what are your opinions of the iPhone as a tool, compared to other phones, and given my considerations mentioned above? You know that feeling when you enjoy a camera? It doesn't have to be the most spec laden technological wonder, but the images are lovely. I got that with my Ricoh GR and older Samsung.

Don't forget Snapseed too for editing on the phone at time of shooting - if you dont want to go the whole route to LR - subscriptions and all.

Both lightroom and snapseed are available on the iphone. Also look at Affinity Photo. Also a strong tool on mobile platforms.

I think an iphone (or any capable phone today - not that it is particularly relevant but I use a OnePlus7 Pro) is a great carry all impulse, caught without a dedicated camera device. To support your theory, I have a number of spec laden cameras yet my favourite camera - Leica M9 really has only three settings. ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed. Using this camera has meant that I pair everything back and actually recently we were talking about mirrorless cameras for hybrid shooting. I also shoot a Nikon Z6 and I realised I have no idea whatsoever about its video capabilities yet it is raved about for it. I mean I know it shoots 4k but beyond that.... meh....

The problem is that today there are very few obviously poor options for taking an image and we are into diminishing returns on the device we choose to use and upgrade.

I dunno, waffling again sorry...

 

[kenoh]

Aye, was happily using both a couple of years ago and lost the phone side of things since. However, as I mentioned, shooting via Lightroom seems to be a much better experience albeit at the expense of launch speed. Going by what you said, this is currently working for me; and I'm curious to learn how the iPhone works for you all as I've not owned one.

I think you may be able on your S9 to change the default camera app so a double click of the power button takes you to LR rather than the default camera app? I know I do it with a different camera app but havent tried it on lightroom. I know you can add a widget for LR to shorten the time to camera a little.

Also you know you can use the volume up button as a shutter button yes? I find that help with my shaky hands.

 

[mollyc]

Yes, @akash.nu is our resident iPhoneographer! I think it's all he uses.

I personally suck at using my phone for a camera but agree I like my results shooting through LR a lot better than the native camera app. Using raw makes a big difference. There is something about using a viewfinder on a dedicated camera and literally shutting the rest of the world out that really works for me for composition and thoughtfulness. I don't even like to use live view unless I'm at a particularly awkward angle.

But, that said, I know of pros who use full cameras for client work and then use their phones for nearly all their personal photos and their workflow is so good that it's nearly indistinguishable as to what camera was used (at least for web viewing). Their voice and processing is so cohesive that unless you are pixel peeping you really can't tell a difference.

We'd be happy to have you join us on the Photo of the Day thread. 🙂

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

I think an iphone (or any capable phone today - not that it is particularly relevant but I use a OnePlus7 Pro) is a great carry all impulse, caught without a dedicated camera device. To support your theory, I have a number of spec laden cameras yet my favourite camera - Leica M9 really has only three settings. ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed. Using this camera has meant that I pair everything back...

The problem is that today there are very few obviously poor options for taking an image and we are into diminishing returns on the device we choose to use and upgrade.

I dunno, waffling again sorry...

Relevant and enjoyable waffling; sharing your experiences helps provide contrast 👍 Agree with devices generally being good for most purposes nowadays. I suppose it verges on the realm of minutiae when considering what I mentioned about phones. It also appears that the hardware is for the most part up to the task, and that bypassing + replacing some of the software changes along the way can give me what I'm looking for. Still curious about the iPhone experience hahah.

I think you may be able on your S9 to change the default camera app so a double click of the power button takes you to LR rather than the default camera app? I know I do it with a different camera app but havent tried it on lightroom. I know you can add a widget for LR to shorten the time to camera a little.

Also you know you can use the volume up button as a shutter button yes? I find that help with my shaky hands.

Very useful, thank you! I'll try it out. I used Snapseed for the images attached in my original post. Will look into Affinity Photo too. Pays to talk!

 

[ian87w]

As a casual user, today's smartphones camera quality imo is already good enough to replace standalone cameras. They even have more advance features that require advance manual post processing on traditional photography. With standalone cameras getting more and more expensive (at least $600-$1000 body only, even more when you want actual good lenses), it's no longer affordable for a casual user to buy a standalone camera (and that is not counting the cost of processing software, learning curve, etc).

There will be people who will still claim that a traditional camera is superior. But of course they should be superior since they can cost as much/more than a flagship smartphone. I mean you will expect them to perform better.

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

Yes, @akash.nu is our resident iPhoneographer! I think it's all he uses.

I personally suck at using my phone for a camera but agree I like my results shooting through LR a lot better than the native camera app. Using raw makes a big difference. There is something about using a viewfinder on a dedicated camera and literally shutting the rest of the world out that really works for me for composition and thoughtfulness. I don't even like to use live view unless I'm at a particularly awkward angle.

Their voice and processing is so cohesive that unless you are pixel peeping you really can't tell a difference.

We'd be happy to have you join us on the Photo of the Day thread. 🙂

Thank you, I'd be happy to join

I've never really had to shoot RAW since I was happy with the jpegs that my old phone produced (attached). RAW seems to be the way forward now seeing that I really want to be able to enjoy using my phone like before and don't always carry my GR. I agree with and support the idea of a cohesive voice across instruments and it looks like I can once again create accordingly with my phone. As for the viewfinder, I suppose many of us grew up peering through our parents' SLRs; an experience that can't be replicated on screen. In partial lieu, I've enabled Lightroom's grid and level functions for my phone.

 

[mollyc]

Thank you, I'd be happy to join

I've never really had to shoot RAW since I was happy with the jpegs that my old phone produced (attached). RAW seems to be the way forward now seeing that I really want to be able to enjoy using my phone like before and don't always carry my GR. I agree with and support the idea of a cohesive voice across instruments and it looks like I can once again create accordingly with my phone. As for the viewfinder, I suppose many of us grew up peering through our parents' SLRs; an experience that can't be replicated on screen. In partial lieu, I've enabled Lightroom's grid and level functions for my phone.

View attachment 959173View attachment 959174

Some of us are old enough to have grown up with only cameras with a viewfinder. 😉

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

As a casual user, today's smartphones camera quality imo is already good enough to replace standalone cameras. With standalone cameras getting more and more expensive, it's no longer affordable for a casual user to buy a standalone camera (and that is not counting the cost of processing software, learning curve, etc.

Yes, the fact that phones now have reliable cameras for broad, casual usage is a major reason why I want to be able to enjoy using them as I did a few years ago, and consequently, the reason why I am interested in how the iPhones perform.

 

[ian87w]

Thank you, I'd be happy to join

I've never really had to shoot RAW since I was happy with the jpegs that my old phone produced (attached). RAW seems to be the way forward now seeing that I really want to be able to enjoy using my phone like before and don't always carry my GR. I agree with and support the idea of a cohesive voice across instruments and it looks like I can once again create accordingly with my phone. As for the viewfinder, I suppose many of us grew up peering through our parents' SLRs; an experience that can't be replicated on screen. In partial lieu, I've enabled Lightroom's grid and level functions for my phone.

View attachment 959173View attachment 959174

Imo RAW is a bit overblown. A professional photographer once told me that he only shoot RAW if the lighting situations is erratic. Other than that, he told me he'd rather focus on making sure the shot is good when he's shooting, and use JPEG. His argument is why waste time on RAW and post processing when you can just get it right when you're shooting right there and then.

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

Some of us are old enough to have grown up with only cameras with a viewfinder. 😉

I remember playing with single use flash bulbs as a child 😂

Imo RAW is a bit overblown. A professional photographer once told me that he only shoot RAW if the lighting situations is erratic. Other than that, he told me he'd rather focus on making sure the shot is good when he's shooting, and use JPEG. His argument is why waste time on RAW and post processing when you can just get it right when you're shooting right there and then.

Interesting. I tend to agree, however, if the phone's JPEG processing is not to taste then shooting RAW seems to be the only workaround?

 

[mollyc]

Imo RAW is a bit overblown. A professional photographer once told me that he only shoot RAW if the lighting situations is erratic. Other than that, he told me he'd rather focus on making sure the shot is good when he's shooting, and use JPEG. His argument is why waste time on RAW and post processing when you can just get it right when you're shooting right there and then.

Raw files contain way more detail than a jpeg. Just because you are shooting raw doesn't mean it needs to be fixed and isn't "right." I'd rather choose my own shadow level detail in LR rather than just having a jpeg crush all the details to black.

I can see the merits of shooting only jpeg for speed and ease of workflow in certain situations but I would never say that shooting raw is a waste of time.

 

[ian87w]

Interesting. I tend to agree, however, if the phone's JPEG processing is not to taste then shooting RAW seems to be the only workaround?

If the problem is the exposure, I would try apps that allow manual control first, to see if you can get the right ISO/aperture/shutter speed to get the exposure you like. You will need 3rd party camera app anyway to shoot RAW, so I would play with manual control first.

 

[Alexander.Of.Oz]

You know that feeling when you enjoy a camera? It doesn't have to be the most spec laden technological wonder, but the images are lovely. I got that with my Ricoh GR and older Samsung.

That my friend, is completely subjective and as individuals we will all have differing opinions and experiences!

 

[ian87w]

Raw files contain way more detail than a jpeg. Just because you are shooting raw doesn't mean it needs to be fixed and isn't "right." I'd rather choose my own shadow level detail in LR rather than just having a jpeg crush all the details to black.

I can see the merits of shooting only jpeg for speed and ease of workflow in certain situations but I would never say that shooting raw is a waste of time.

There are situations that merits RAW shooting, obviously. As I mentioned, the pro photographer I talked to did say that erratic lighting situations is one example where shooting RAW makes sense.

But one has to consider the drawbacks vs the usage scenario. RAW files takes a LOT of space, and it still needs to be processed. To really benefit from RAW shooting, one has to use a proper software and that takes learning curve. If one simply want to use filters and/or post to social media, RAW shooting imo is not the best answer to get better pictures. Proper composition goes longer way imo in making great pictures.

 

[mollyc]

There are situations that merits RAW shooting, obviously. As I mentioned, the pro photographer I talked to did say that erratic lighting situations is one example where shooting RAW makes sense.

But one has to consider the drawbacks vs the usage scenario. RAW files takes a LOT of space, and it still needs to be processed. To really benefit from RAW shooting, one has to use a proper software and that takes learning curve. If one simply want to use filters and/or post to social media, RAW shooting imo is not the best answer to get better pictures. Proper composition goes longer way imo in making great pictures.

Yes, of course raw files take more space and there is a learning curve. But to say that it's a waste of time to learn is like saying a race car driver should just use an automatic transmission. If all you want to do is churn and burn, the sure, leave your camera on jpeg and let the camera make the processing decisions. But if you want to be an artist, good at a craft, you have to learn the whole shebang.

 

[ian87w]

Yes, of course raw files take more space and there is a learning curve. But to say that it's a waste of time to learn is like saying a race car driver should just use an automatic transmission. If all you want to do is churn and burn, the sure, leave your camera on jpeg and let the camera make the processing decisions. But if you want to be ant artist, good at a craft, you have to learn the whole shebang.

Is OP Learning to be professional photo editor?

If photography learning is the focus, then learning manual controls and composition are more important imo than learning about RAW processing. Learning RAW right off the bat thinking that it will magically give a better picture imo is misleading.

And to bring back to the topic, we are talking about mobile photography here. There are advantages of letting the phone do the dirty work, and focusing first on the fundamentals of manual control.

But that’s just me. To me, the fundamentals of photography is about manual control and compositions.

 

[Ukiyo Evenings]

OP is a Pulitzer winning photographer. Jk.

That my friend, is completely subjective and as individuals we will all have differing opinions and experiences!

And it's fun to hear all these opinions, as well as the ensuing debates, when kept civil and impersonal of course.

I learnt photography on SLRs and accept both sides of the phone doing the work/manual control coin. I shot these just now with my phone on auto and then RAW in LR. Much prefer the capture process and result in LR. Still looking forward to hearing iPhone experiences

 

[mollyc]

Is OP Learning to be professional photo editor?

If photography learning is the focus, then learning manual controls and composition are more important imo than learning about RAW processing. Learning RAW right off the bat thinking that it will magically give a better picture imo is misleading.

And to bring back to the topic, we are talking about mobile photography here. There are advantages of letting the phone do the dirty work, and focusing first on the fundamentals of manual control.

But that’s just me. To me, the fundamentals of photography is about manual control and compositions.

No, but OP admits that he prefers raw images, even from his phone. Of course learning composition and fundamentals is the first step, but he (and others on this forum) want to go to the next step, regardless of the camera used. You say that learning manual is important, but what about photographers who only shoot in Ap mode?

Anyway, despite what it seems, I am not trying to argue with you, but to further the discussion. As OP is interested in raw images coming from his phone, then my point is that raw images do actually contain more detail, and as that is what he wants, shooting raw on his phone makes sense.

To the OP, here are some iPhoneography articles for you (don't let the "moms" in the title scare you away -- these are some seriously talented professionals and artists).

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