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iPhone Safari just got trumped

Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe can't come out with a flash version that will run on the iPhone? Is it also AMD/Intel's fault that there's no 64-bit version of flash? I agree it'd be nice to have flash on the iPhone (but please for the love of all that is good in this world, give us an enable/disable setting for it!), but I'm much more on the blamewagon against Adobe for it....
 
It really is a shame, and personally, I think its a BIG deal...

Those pages looked amazing.
 
Windows mobile is a lot more difficult UI .... and it's been around a lot longer than the iphone OS, so there are going to be more things available for it
 
hard-case said:
Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe can't come out with a flash version that will run on the iPhone? ...
Click to expand...

Because it IS up to Apple.

Without Apple's help and an SDK, Adobe can't do anything.

See last post for a comment from an Adobe Flash engineer

Adobe needs three things:

1) The ability to actually add such things to iPhone Safari.
2) An SDK for (1)
3) Apple's assurance that they will allow it to be downloaded.

As for (3), it's quite possible that Apple wants to avoid all third party players. Adobe is pushing Flash. Microsoft is pushing Silverlight. It wouldn't be surprising if Apple wants to push their own upcoming player.
 
There's something fishy about that video. Webpages do not instantly render on my computer, yet on that phone, CNN was completely rendered instantly. No way.
 
Sedulous said:
There's something fishy about that video. Webpages do not instantly render on my computer, yet on that phone, CNN was completely rendered instantly. No way.
Click to expand...
The video was obviously edited to make the phone look like it loads flash super quick, it probably took half an hour to do that whole demo. they just edited it down to a few mins buy cutting out load times.
 
Nope...because it supports phone without touch screens, it won't be as good as Safari on iPhone.


That simple! Unless the put lots of effort into the touch screen app...then maybe. Flash Support is nice
 
Sedulous said:
There's something fishy about that video. Webpages do not instantly render on my computer, yet on that phone, CNN was completely rendered instantly. No way.
Click to expand...
cdd543 said:
Until it is available to the public for evaluation, I wouldn't get too excited.
Click to expand...
Amen and amen. Don't everyone wet their pants too soon. This looks more like a competitor for Opera than for Safari.

I just queued up the video on my Apple TV and I found myself looking for certain telltale things... for example, they made a very telling point to only show a "glimpse" of any given thing and just enough for credibility sake (nothing rigorous or performance heavy).

For instance, when they showed "Google Maps" they only dragged the U.S. map around before moving on. I'd have been impressed if they'd done the "pizza zipcode" search, and showed a "street view" segment (which is flash based). When they showed Flash, they never attempted to click on anything INSIDE of the Flash, they just let it "play" inline without any interactivity. When "zoomed out", they never tried to "click" a link. Only after "zooming in". Moreover, this was a highly stylus-centric demonstration. For everyone wondering why Apple couldn't do the exact same thing, I think its a fair comment to raise that "fingers" are different than "stylii", and that the same acts are not automatically possible.

If someone we to take a "touch" phone with a "capacitive" screen, and before the same demo, stopping to actually show the areas of interest for 5 more seconds each, that'd be great. I'm still not sure why he didn't just stop at time.gov, to use the Java there as a demo for the phone.

Again, this should really concern Opera. It doesn't seem to compete with Mobile Safari where it counts. For instance, here are the areas I best LOVE Mobile Safari for:

1. Automatic orientation switching (landscape/portrait)
2. Multi-touch "gesture support"
3. Automatic HTML entity selection for double-tap zooming
4. Full-screen Quicktime, PDF and Mp3 media support
5. Refactored HTML elements for touchscreen, no-stylus usage (drop menus, textarea scrolling, keypads, etc).

One of the things Mobile Safari does an admirable job at, often seems lost when people look over competitors... Namely, it doesn't attempt to BE a computer browser. It's just a "real" browser, but it is specifically designed as a "mobile" solution... not a scaled down PC solution on a tiny screen. I don't think Apple should go feature-chasing simply to prove they can ruin a great product in an attempt to play "catch-up" with an early-version rival.

~ CB
 
I also can't help but point out that the report states that there is a bit of server side magic to this.

Seems to suggest that the support of embedded media is still through a proxy just now the proxy works more like opera rather than a hack.

Also who is to say skyfire won't be available for the iphone after the SDK is out.

Troll on Troller we have no place for you here.
 
Cleverboy said:
... Moreover, this was a highly stylus-centric demonstration.
For everyone wondering why Apple couldn't do the exact same thing, I think its a fair comment to raise that "fingers" are different than "stylii", and that the same acts are not automatically possible.
Click to expand...

It's common for demo videos on other devices to use a stylus, simply so you can see easier. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

Most mobile devices suck at the web because their screens can't display a full page view.

Personally, I'm not into the "see the whole page" kind of browsers. As slick as they are, it takes too much effort to browse with them.

Give me one that intelligently renders a page down to a vertical-scroll only display. That's pretty much what we end up doing on Safari anyway, by tapping to get to a specific area. And it's what many iPhone-specific versions of sites do.
 
kdarling said:
Personally, I'm not into the "see the whole page" kind of browsers. As slick as they are, it takes too much effort to browse with them.

Give me one that intelligently renders a page down to a vertical-scroll only display. That's pretty much what we end up doing on Safari anyway, by tapping to get to a specific area. And it's what many iPhone-specific versions of sites do.
Click to expand...
Mm, I really don't like the principle of proxy-browser service/software hybrid browsers. I suppose its all they can do to innovate on existing hardware but that's really the power of mobile Safari... Its a great browser... But most because its on a great platform. Safari treads the line with its RSS reader, but to me, that's different than constantly routing/process all media traffic. Its AOL all over again. Why doesn't that cache clear? Why does that Jpeg look so bad? Why won't that mp3 stream?

I agree, but the iPhone changed the game on fullpage renders. I'd love to see someone using Skyfire on a touchscreen though without a stylus. There's enough software finger-specific optimizations Safari does... That to match it, or even feel comparable would be a feat. Right now browser like Skyfire and Opera seem to talk more to the past than the future.

Its a rare thing to mind posting to anything from my iPhone. Here I've posted to a few websites already this morning and this doesn't feel the slightest bit unnatural (a lot because of the predictive keyboard).

~ CB
 
That did not impress me at all. It was slow. Zooming in on something was horrible and not something I would want to do often with that browser. It just didn't seem fluid at all, the way it is when I use Safari on the iPod touch.

The only thing it has over Safari is flash support, but Apple has me sorted on that with the only two sites I need being dedicated apps, Google Maps and YouTube. Who would ever want to view any of them in a browser when you have the dedicated app?

So yeah, flash support for the iPhone/iPod touch would be useful for some things, but to me it just isn't a big deal.
 
davidjearly said:
The only thing it has over Safari is flash support, but Apple has me sorted on that with the only two sites I need being dedicated apps, Google Maps and YouTube. Who would ever want to view any of them in a browser when you have the dedicated app?
Click to expand...
Devil's Advocate: It also has "Java", and supposedly will support the "latest" versions of everything without new plugins to install... which to me, smacks heavily of "simulation". It'll be telling to see someone interact with Flash in a more in-depth manner than watching it "auto-play". Does its version of "Flash support" mean I could visit MiniClip.com on my Skyfire enabled phone, and play a few games? Or is this another compromise whose limitations are being intentionally obscured/glossed over? For an EVDO phone, the Flash video looked remarkably choppy... and I couldn't figure out why he "clicked" the YouTube link, and not the thumbnail.
“For too long consumers have been promised the ‘real Web’ on their
phone, only to be disappointed by slow rendering, error messages, no Flash
support, watered down WAP pages or second-rate mobile versions of their
favorite site,” said Skyfire CEO Nitin Bhandari. “Skyfire has remedied
those ills at a speed not seen before on the mobile platform. By extending
the PC Web experience to smartphones, we fully expect Skyfire to
fundamentally change the way people use their phones.”
Click to expand...
Considering the iPhone's browsing numbers lately (huge boost, dominating the mobile web browsing sector), it seems clear Apple has already followed through in its characteristically "first-things-first" approach. This quote above just reads just like Jobs keynote from over year ago.
Skyfire's patent-pending technology is the foundation of Skyfire's unique ability to support all Web technologies, both current and future, at speeds comparable to the PC. With Skyfire's proprietary technology, supporting any new Web standard becomes a seamless user experience without the need to upgrade to new releases. This technology allows Skyfire to support real Web browsing while saving precious bandwidth and reducing processing power and memory needed on the phone.
Click to expand...
We can only hope that this isn't simply a "gimmick", but that's exactly what it feels like right now. In essence, a "gimmick" would be something that sounds cool, but which no one ever ends up using for any extended period of time, eventually losing its "flavor of the month" appeal after people fail to adopt it in large numbers. I'm thinking their long-term goal is to popularize their technology for patent reasons.

~ CB
 
Erm. I wasn't that impressed. Its game changing because it has a flash plugin? Are you kidding me.

Flash is simply not a big deal to me. Most of the time it will be running advertising and killing CPU/battery.

The UI looked cumbersome.
 
runplaysleeprun said:
Isn't it not that the browser or phone are any better, but that the company does server side conversion of the video so that it can be played?
Click to expand...

ert3 said:
I also can't help but point out that the report states that there is a bit of server side magic to this.

Seems to suggest that the support of embedded media is still through a proxy just now the proxy works more like opera rather than a hack.

Also who is to say skyfire won't be available for the iphone after the SDK is out.

Troll on Troller we have no place for you here.
Click to expand...


It runs through a server, like opera mini. Which means less privacy for your browsing needs. See this review: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13761
 
What's going to happen when the Flash program demands way more screen space then the phone has to offer. This is but one of many issues facing the Flash-enabled phone viewer.

To be honest, I try to avoid Flash-based sites, even at home. Markup language standards are much better than all this Flash crap done by ex-print designers and lazy software developers who want total control, something that goes against the true strengths of a Web browser and the world to which it is connected.

In a word (or two), FLASH SUCKS.
 
IMHO Apple aren't in a hurry to add Flash to the iPhone for the same reason their own website doesn't use Flash: it's a proprietary technology and they'd rather push the use of open standards-based technologies like AJAX.
 
alFR said:
IMHO Apple aren't in a hurry to add Flash to the iPhone for the same reason their own website doesn't use Flash: it's a proprietary technology and they'd rather push the use of open standards-based technologies like AJAX.
Click to expand...

The first part (not their technology) is very likely true.

But they have their own iPhone-only special Safari extensions.

I'd like to see them port Safari to Windows Mobile. Ain't gonna happen, of course, since that would really put competition on them.
 
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