iPhone Safari just got trumped

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by bbplayer5, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. hard-case macrumors regular


    Jul 10, 2007
    Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe can't come out with a flash version that will run on the iPhone? Is it also AMD/Intel's fault that there's no 64-bit version of flash? I agree it'd be nice to have flash on the iPhone (but please for the love of all that is good in this world, give us an enable/disable setting for it!), but I'm much more on the blamewagon against Adobe for it....
  2. bbplayer5 thread starter macrumors 68030

    Apr 13, 2007
    It really is a shame, and personally, I think its a BIG deal...

    Those pages looked amazing.
  3. Drumjim85 macrumors 68030


    Oct 7, 2007
    DFW, TX
    Windows mobile is a lot more difficult UI .... and it's been around a lot longer than the iphone OS, so there are going to be more things available for it
  4. kdarling macrumors demi-god


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    Because it IS up to Apple.

    Without Apple's help and an SDK, Adobe can't do anything.

    See last post for a comment from an Adobe Flash engineer

    Adobe needs three things:

    1) The ability to actually add such things to iPhone Safari.
    2) An SDK for (1)
    3) Apple's assurance that they will allow it to be downloaded.

    As for (3), it's quite possible that Apple wants to avoid all third party players. Adobe is pushing Flash. Microsoft is pushing Silverlight. It wouldn't be surprising if Apple wants to push their own upcoming player.
  5. runplaysleeprun macrumors 6502a


    Jul 27, 2004
    Chicago, IL
    Isn't it not that the browser or phone are any better, but that the company does server side conversion of the video so that it can be played?
  6. Sedulous macrumors 68020


    Dec 10, 2002
    There's something fishy about that video. Webpages do not instantly render on my computer, yet on that phone, CNN was completely rendered instantly. No way.
  7. cdd543 macrumors 6502


    Oct 13, 2006
    Until it is available to the public for evaluation, I wouldn't get too excited.
  8. specops macrumors regular

    Jun 29, 2007
    The video was obviously edited to make the phone look like it loads flash super quick, it probably took half an hour to do that whole demo. they just edited it down to a few mins buy cutting out load times.
  9. zap2 macrumors 604


    Mar 8, 2005
    Washington D.C
    Nope...because it supports phone without touch screens, it won't be as good as Safari on iPhone.

    That simple! Unless the put lots of effort into the touch screen app...then maybe. Flash Support is nice
  10. Cleverboy macrumors 65816


    May 25, 2007
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    Amen and amen. Don't everyone wet their pants too soon. This looks more like a competitor for Opera than for Safari.

    I just queued up the video on my Apple TV and I found myself looking for certain telltale things... for example, they made a very telling point to only show a "glimpse" of any given thing and just enough for credibility sake (nothing rigorous or performance heavy).

    For instance, when they showed "Google Maps" they only dragged the U.S. map around before moving on. I'd have been impressed if they'd done the "pizza zipcode" search, and showed a "street view" segment (which is flash based). When they showed Flash, they never attempted to click on anything INSIDE of the Flash, they just let it "play" inline without any interactivity. When "zoomed out", they never tried to "click" a link. Only after "zooming in". Moreover, this was a highly stylus-centric demonstration. For everyone wondering why Apple couldn't do the exact same thing, I think its a fair comment to raise that "fingers" are different than "stylii", and that the same acts are not automatically possible.

    If someone we to take a "touch" phone with a "capacitive" screen, and before the same demo, stopping to actually show the areas of interest for 5 more seconds each, that'd be great. I'm still not sure why he didn't just stop at time.gov, to use the Java there as a demo for the phone.

    Again, this should really concern Opera. It doesn't seem to compete with Mobile Safari where it counts. For instance, here are the areas I best LOVE Mobile Safari for:

    1. Automatic orientation switching (landscape/portrait)
    2. Multi-touch "gesture support"
    3. Automatic HTML entity selection for double-tap zooming
    4. Full-screen Quicktime, PDF and Mp3 media support
    5. Refactored HTML elements for touchscreen, no-stylus usage (drop menus, textarea scrolling, keypads, etc).

    One of the things Mobile Safari does an admirable job at, often seems lost when people look over competitors... Namely, it doesn't attempt to BE a computer browser. It's just a "real" browser, but it is specifically designed as a "mobile" solution... not a scaled down PC solution on a tiny screen. I don't think Apple should go feature-chasing simply to prove they can ruin a great product in an attempt to play "catch-up" with an early-version rival.

    ~ CB
  11. ert3 macrumors 6502a


    Dec 10, 2007
    I also can't help but point out that the report states that there is a bit of server side magic to this.

    Seems to suggest that the support of embedded media is still through a proxy just now the proxy works more like opera rather than a hack.

    Also who is to say skyfire won't be available for the iphone after the SDK is out.

    Troll on Troller we have no place for you here.
  12. kdarling macrumors demi-god


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    It's common for demo videos on other devices to use a stylus, simply so you can see easier. So I wouldn't read too much into that.

    Most mobile devices suck at the web because their screens can't display a full page view.

    Personally, I'm not into the "see the whole page" kind of browsers. As slick as they are, it takes too much effort to browse with them.

    Give me one that intelligently renders a page down to a vertical-scroll only display. That's pretty much what we end up doing on Safari anyway, by tapping to get to a specific area. And it's what many iPhone-specific versions of sites do.
  13. Cleverboy macrumors 65816


    May 25, 2007
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    Mm, I really don't like the principle of proxy-browser service/software hybrid browsers. I suppose its all they can do to innovate on existing hardware but that's really the power of mobile Safari... Its a great browser... But most because its on a great platform. Safari treads the line with its RSS reader, but to me, that's different than constantly routing/process all media traffic. Its AOL all over again. Why doesn't that cache clear? Why does that Jpeg look so bad? Why won't that mp3 stream?

    I agree, but the iPhone changed the game on fullpage renders. I'd love to see someone using Skyfire on a touchscreen though without a stylus. There's enough software finger-specific optimizations Safari does... That to match it, or even feel comparable would be a feat. Right now browser like Skyfire and Opera seem to talk more to the past than the future.

    Its a rare thing to mind posting to anything from my iPhone. Here I've posted to a few websites already this morning and this doesn't feel the slightest bit unnatural (a lot because of the predictive keyboard).

    ~ CB
  14. Markleshark macrumors 603


    Aug 15, 2006
    Carlisle, Up Norf!
    iPhone/iPod Safari does the job, I do agree it could do with seeing some features starting to get added in. As a start though, it's brilliant.
  15. davidjearly macrumors 68020


    Sep 21, 2006
    Glasgow, Scotland
    That did not impress me at all. It was slow. Zooming in on something was horrible and not something I would want to do often with that browser. It just didn't seem fluid at all, the way it is when I use Safari on the iPod touch.

    The only thing it has over Safari is flash support, but Apple has me sorted on that with the only two sites I need being dedicated apps, Google Maps and YouTube. Who would ever want to view any of them in a browser when you have the dedicated app?

    So yeah, flash support for the iPhone/iPod touch would be useful for some things, but to me it just isn't a big deal.
  16. Cleverboy macrumors 65816


    May 25, 2007
    Pocket Universe, nth Dimensional Complex Manifold
    Devil's Advocate: It also has "Java", and supposedly will support the "latest" versions of everything without new plugins to install... which to me, smacks heavily of "simulation". It'll be telling to see someone interact with Flash in a more in-depth manner than watching it "auto-play". Does its version of "Flash support" mean I could visit MiniClip.com on my Skyfire enabled phone, and play a few games? Or is this another compromise whose limitations are being intentionally obscured/glossed over? For an EVDO phone, the Flash video looked remarkably choppy... and I couldn't figure out why he "clicked" the YouTube link, and not the thumbnail.
    Considering the iPhone's browsing numbers lately (huge boost, dominating the mobile web browsing sector), it seems clear Apple has already followed through in its characteristically "first-things-first" approach. This quote above just reads just like Jobs keynote from over year ago.
    We can only hope that this isn't simply a "gimmick", but that's exactly what it feels like right now. In essence, a "gimmick" would be something that sounds cool, but which no one ever ends up using for any extended period of time, eventually losing its "flavor of the month" appeal after people fail to adopt it in large numbers. I'm thinking their long-term goal is to popularize their technology for patent reasons.

    ~ CB
  17. Project macrumors 68020

    Aug 6, 2005
    Erm. I wasn't that impressed. Its game changing because it has a flash plugin? Are you kidding me.

    Flash is simply not a big deal to me. Most of the time it will be running advertising and killing CPU/battery.

    The UI looked cumbersome.
  18. question fear macrumors 68020

    question fear

    Apr 10, 2003
    The "Garden" state

    It runs through a server, like opera mini. Which means less privacy for your browsing needs. See this review: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13761
  19. netdog macrumors 603


    Feb 6, 2006
    What's going to happen when the Flash program demands way more screen space then the phone has to offer. This is but one of many issues facing the Flash-enabled phone viewer.

    To be honest, I try to avoid Flash-based sites, even at home. Markup language standards are much better than all this Flash crap done by ex-print designers and lazy software developers who want total control, something that goes against the true strengths of a Web browser and the world to which it is connected.

    In a word (or two), FLASH SUCKS.
  20. bbplayer5 thread starter macrumors 68030

    Apr 13, 2007
    Because you try to avoid flash, it must suck.
  21. alFR macrumors 68020

    Aug 10, 2006
    IMHO Apple aren't in a hurry to add Flash to the iPhone for the same reason their own website doesn't use Flash: it's a proprietary technology and they'd rather push the use of open standards-based technologies like AJAX.
  22. kdarling macrumors demi-god


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    The first part (not their technology) is very likely true.

    But they have their own iPhone-only special Safari extensions.

    I'd like to see them port Safari to Windows Mobile. Ain't gonna happen, of course, since that would really put competition on them.
  23. iStefmac macrumors regular

    Jan 7, 2008
    Actually....it really really does. Flash has set the video world back 40 years, making people used to and accepting of terrible video quality.

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