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Because I don’t agree with your way of thinking doesn’t mean I don’t understand.

I’ll understand that the biggest part of Apple customers just buy Apple because they’re accustomed to it and don’t even bother to look somewhere else.

You think iOS and MacOS are the only ones offering an ecosystem where devices work seemingly together. That’s thinking of a decade ago.

All big tech companies offer the same ecosystem possibilities as Apple does and many more advanced.

Welcome to 2025!
And for the tens of millions who view technology as appliances, regular people, what is the draw to make the switch? They know the system and they’re happy enough USING the devices instead of treating technology like their project car.

Regular people simply don’t view technology like us *technology forum dwellers* do.

That doesn’t mean they’re stupid, lazy, ignorant, etc, it’s that technology isn’t something that interests them. They just want to use the phone.

Personally I’ve considered toying around with Xiaomi or other brands, but I’m the designated tech support for my friends and family. Having everyone on the same platform is a positive in this regard.
 
It has tons of more users than the Apple Vision Pro 😂

In case you don’t use it, doesn’t mean nobody uses it. What is it with those Apple fanatics?
I am far from a fanatic, I have nearly 20 years of posts here. I still consider Apple to be one of the biggest “legal” tax cheats on the planet. I have plenty of criticism for them, but when it comes to my phone I gave up on jailbreaking and customizing every little detail over a decade ago. It simply doesn’t interest me. I do enough tech for work, I have no interest in tinkering with my phone anymore.

People have different mindsets when it comes to tech, I don’t view it as part of my identity or worth getting into a pissing match over.
 
They probably will for iPhone SE/16E models sold outside the United States. That's the present arrangement with the entire rest of the iPhone model range.

I’m hoping they keep the SIM card tray for the SE/16E US models. eSIM isn’t quite ready for primetime outside the US if you need a local SIM. Having both physical SIM card and eSIM is pretty useful for travel.
 
If you value that particular feature you could buy an unlocked iPhone outside the United States.

I considered doing that while I was in the Philippines in 2023 but iPhones cost $200 more than US so I decided not to.

Anyway, I still have an iPhone SE 2022 I can use for trips.
 
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Honestly I don’t think Apple will implement TouchID in anyway in this SE. The reason to keep the FaceID as we currently know it is, that if Apple give TouchID to the SE, they would be forced to get rid of the Dynamic Island thus having the first all screen iPhone of all times.

Obviously Apple is not going to give an all screen and to ride of Dynamic Island (giving just a punch hole) to its budget iPhone, because then the regulars (15, 16) and Pro iPhones would look antique at the instant.

So I think Apple will give Dynamic Island (or notch) and FaceID to this new SE, thus using old inner parts and screens from discontinued models.
It could just be a notch like the 10/11/12/13 And its where the front camera be.
 
Which iPhone is a showcase of innovation since iPhone X?
I would say you are asking the wrong question, which again, shows that you haven't the faintest idea of how Apple works, and how it has managed to stay ahead of the game for so long.

Apple has never been a company that produced revolutionary product after revolutionary product. It only seemed that way because the iPhone, MBA and iPad were released so close to each other, but I believe that if Steve Jobs were still around, we would still have continued to see constant iteration and refinement in their products.

This is the right way to design a product, compared to throwing out your existing design for something that is totally different (it's wasteful, and does not allow you to tap on existing technology). You settle on something that works, and then go on to pour ever-increasing resources into incremental improvements in the details. Every year, the iPhone improves in fairly predicable ways. The display is better, the processor and GPU are faster, the camera is better, Touch ID and Face ID did improve for a time, battery life is (generally) better etc.

None of these improvements are revolutionary, but they all add up to a solid list of year-over-year improvements, and Apple's financial results show that consumers agree with them. The crux here isn't that Apple has changed (regardless of whatever misgivings you may have of Tim Cook as CEO, recent donations to Trump and all), but that Apple hasn't changed. Their strength has always been in their outstanding design and product integration, and their ability to build via iteration.

For example, the iPhone is able to provide the technological groundwork and the cash flow for the vision pro. It's not hard to see how a feature like double tap on the Apple Watch can be expanded to let you control the Vision Pro. The iPhone's camera is capable of recording spatial video for the vision pro as well, something that normally would require the cameras to be further apart, and is an example of how Apple is able to rely on its ecosystem to give it a massive advantage in whatever comes next.

This is what I generally like about Apple keynotes and presentations. The takeaways often end up being related more to how Apple sets the stage for the future. Certain announcements and features make much more sense when thinking about what Apple will likely unveil in the coming years. With companies like Samsung, it's the opposite. I am just not seeing any coherent vision when it comes to the future.

I guess it doesn't really matter whether you bother trying to understand Apple users at the end of the day, or dismiss us as technological luddites who are afraid and incapable of change. You can continue to buy the android phones with their inflated specs that you so love to tout, we will continue to buy the apple products that work great for us (I have just ended another week of teaching with my iPad in the classroom), we each presumably continue to be happy with our purchases, and we will let the financial earnings of the respective companies speak for themselves each quarter.

I will end with one of my pet quotes - that you (and everyone else like you) continue to bet against Apple to your own detriment.
 
I'm surprised it doesn't have 2 cameras to promote stereo 3D content for Apple Vision.
 
Apple has never been a company that produced revolutionary product after revolutionary product. It only seemed that way because the iPhone, MBA and iPad were released so close to each other, but I believe that if Steve Jobs were still around, we would still have continued to see constant iteration and refinement in their products.
Gotta starkly disagree here, despite otherwise agreeing with most of what you say.

Apple basically WAS all about producing revolutionary products UNTIL they got a product that was so profitable that refining it became much more financially attractive. Jobs, for all his faults and shortcomings, was all about revolution. And frankly: probably that is the reason he wasn't nearly as successful a leader of Apple as people remember him as. Heck - he even got fired at some point. Even back in 2010 Apple's stock price was 5 bucks. Today it's around 250. Jobs created something from nothing. Cook created world domination from something. We can argue what is more impressive.

I strongly believe that Jobs would have pushed for innovation far more. That doesn't mean it would have worked, and certainly not that it would have made Apple richer. The Apple Facehugger Pro is testament to the fact that "innovation" often leads to failure, and considering some of Apple's "revolutions" back in the day Jobs track record himself certainly was so-so. (Newton, anyone?)

The difference between Jobs and Cook is simple: Jobs was the guy you put in charge of changing the world. Cook is the guy you put in charge of turning a profit. Both have a time, both have a place. Apple will continue to rake in mad profits for a long time. And they won't go back to doing great innovation first. You don't risk a trillion dollar company on the stupid idea of an engineer. You buy billion dollar companies that didn't even know they were doing it for you.

I will end with one of my pet quotes - that you (and everyone else like you) continue to bet against Apple to your own detriment.
That is something I can wholeheartedly agree with.
 
Sorry if I missed this somewhere but do we know the rough size of the new SE? The leaked images don't seem to reveal anything about the size/dimensions ? (asking as a 13 mini holdout hoping for a smaller-than-regular-16 phone)
 
I would say you are asking the wrong question, which again, shows that you haven't the faintest idea of how Apple works, and how it has managed to stay ahead of the game for so long.

Apple has never been a company that produced revolutionary product after revolutionary product. It only seemed that way because the iPhone, MBA and iPad were released so close to each other, but I believe that if Steve Jobs were still around, we would still have continued to see constant iteration and refinement in their products.

This is the right way to design a product, compared to throwing out your existing design for something that is totally different (it's wasteful, and does not allow you to tap on existing technology). You settle on something that works, and then go on to pour ever-increasing resources into incremental improvements in the details. Every year, the iPhone improves in fairly predicable ways. The display is better, the processor and GPU are faster, the camera is better, Touch ID and Face ID did improve for a time, battery life is (generally) better etc.

None of these improvements are revolutionary, but they all add up to a solid list of year-over-year improvements, and Apple's financial results show that consumers agree with them. The crux here isn't that Apple has changed (regardless of whatever misgivings you may have of Tim Cook as CEO, recent donations to Trump and all), but that Apple hasn't changed. Their strength has always been in their outstanding design and product integration, and their ability to build via iteration.

For example, the iPhone is able to provide the technological groundwork and the cash flow for the vision pro. It's not hard to see how a feature like double tap on the Apple Watch can be expanded to let you control the Vision Pro. The iPhone's camera is capable of recording spatial video for the vision pro as well, something that normally would require the cameras to be further apart, and is an example of how Apple is able to rely on its ecosystem to give it a massive advantage in whatever comes next.

This is what I generally like about Apple keynotes and presentations. The takeaways often end up being related more to how Apple sets the stage for the future. Certain announcements and features make much more sense when thinking about what Apple will likely unveil in the coming years. With companies like Samsung, it's the opposite. I am just not seeing any coherent vision when it comes to the future.

I guess it doesn't really matter whether you bother trying to understand Apple users at the end of the day, or dismiss us as technological luddites who are afraid and incapable of change. You can continue to buy the android phones with their inflated specs that you so love to tout, we will continue to buy the apple products that work great for us (I have just ended another week of teaching with my iPad in the classroom), we each presumably continue to be happy with our purchases, and we will let the financial earnings of the respective companies speak for themselves each quarter.

I will end with one of my pet quotes - that you (and everyone else like you) continue to bet against Apple to your own detriment.
Seems to me you’re seeing the world from out a schrinking fishing bowl.

It’s always strange to see when someone is talking of “we” and “us” with their opinions instead of “I” 🤪
 
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Seems to me you’re seeing the world from out a schrinking fishing bowl.

It’s always strange to see when someone is talking of “we” and “us” with their opinions instead of “I”

I did say it before. So long as a single one of us remains, we are legion.
 
I did say it before. So long as a single one of us remains, we are legion.
Go watch some more Disney, but don’t talk about how well Apple’s ecosystem works compared to others. It’s a bit strange from a person who really doesn’t know (and care) what’s out there.

They all offer the same and more without locking you in like Apple does.

 
Go watch some more Disney, but don’t talk about how well Apple’s ecosystem works compared to others. It’s a bit strange from a person who really doesn’t know (and care) what’s out there.

They all offer the same and more without locking you in like Apple does.



Suffice to say I don’t really care about smart home integration so a large part of that “renowned” Samsung ecosystem is lost to me.

Likewise, I can also point out how the Apple TV is perhaps the sole smart TV operating system which doesn’t serve ads.


Then there’s Apple silicon as well.

I seem to also recall asking you some time back what your solution was for apps that were iOS only, like notability, ivory, play and overcast, which go some way towards enabling the Apple experience for me. I don’t think I ever got a response from you in that regard.

I also haven’t gotten around to calling you out on (what I believe to be) erroneous claims of dwindling iPhone market share, but I will probably wait for Apple to address that during their next quarterly earnings as well. I remember a similar rumour being floated around this time last year as well, with Apple debunking that shortly after.

You are free to not like Apple products. What I don’t get is why this has to necessarily translate into some belief that Apple is inherently doomed just because they don’t make products that resonate with you apparently (but which clearly have no shortage of users).
 
It could just be a notch like the 10/11/12/13 And its where the front camera be.

It’s difficult for some to understand that the notch can only be used as a place for the camera without FaceID sensors.

As for the new SE4, it's nice to see that they've kept the SIM card tray, and hopefully they'll also continue to use TouchID.

But one thing is for sure, the success of this phone depends on its price.
 
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As for the new SE4, it's nice to see that they've kept the SIM card tray, and hopefully they'll also continue to use TouchID.
No, Apple will not give TouchID to SE4. Do you wanna bet?

It’s difficult for some to understand that the notch can only be used as a place for the camera without FaceID sensors.
Actually, you’re right with this statement, so this is the reason they will keep the notch (or Dynamic Island) and the FaceID at the SE4.
 
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They don't offer iOS and access to Apple's ecosystem. It's two of the most important features of an iPhone.

You don't understand why customers buy Apple's products and services.
iOS isn’t an upgrade. They don’t offer access to apples ecosystem? Well, that’s a good twist to the story… Apple doesn’t let them play nice with apple related products. 10 years ago that wasn’t a problem. Today this will only hurt apple in the end.

I do understand why customers buy apple products and services. Most don’t bother and don’t care and still think off what was possible 10+ years ago.
 
Will probably be my next phone when the time comes to replace my 15 Pro.
 
No, Apple will not give TouchID to SE4. Do you wanna bet?


Actually, you’re right with this statement, so this is the reason they will keep the notch (or Dynamic Island) and the FaceID at the SE4.

You need to work on your reading comprehension… I never said it will have TouchID, I said hopefully.
 
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Touch ID on the power/wake button seems more likely to me given that's partly how Apple market engineers iPads.
The power/wake button on iPads is a bit larger. Would that button on an iPhone be large enough to capture enough fingerprint to be useful?

As a motorcyclist, TouchID is perfect. Face ID is erratic due to the helmet etc.
Then there are people like my wife, whose fingerprint ridges are so faint it often takes multiple tries even on professional-/commercial-grade fingerprint scanners to get usable prints from her.

She's tried and tried and tried to use fingerprint I.D. on her iPhone (and previous iPad). Finally gave up and just used her PIN all the time. The Face I.D. on her iPad Pro just works—even when she recently made a fairly significant change to her eyeglasses frames.

Or in my case: If I don't keep my hands very clean and moisturize them regularly fingerprint I.D. stops working. Forget about it if I've been doing manual labor with my hands and they're dirty at all. Nine-times-out-of-ten, fingerprint I.D. stops working until they're thoroughly scrubbed and clean again.

Except, oddly enough, on my new iPad Air with fingerprint I.D. on the power/wake button. I figured that would be a disaster. So far it's never failed to work with any registered finger. Go figure.

Our 2nd Gen. iPhone SE's are going on five years old. Batteries aren't too bad, yet. (Mine's 84%. My wife's about the same.) But, still: I'm thinking we're about due. Plus my phone Lightning port has begun to become a bit wonky. Sometimes I'd plug it in to charge, get the chime, and later find it hadn't charged.

So the other day I said "To heck with this and bought an Apple MagSafe charging pad for it. I spent the extra for MagSafe, knowing my current iPhone doesn't support it, based upon the rumor the SE 4 would.
 
iOS isn’t an upgrade. They don’t offer access to apples ecosystem? Well, that’s a good twist to the story… Apple doesn’t let them play nice with apple related products. 10 years ago that wasn’t a problem. Today this will only hurt apple in the end.

I do understand why customers buy apple products and services. Most don’t bother and don’t care and still think off what was possible 10+ years ago.
Or maybe it’s simply that they have different priorities and preferences than you do.
 
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