iPhone Upgrade Program

[turbineseaplane]

It's a requirement from the bank giving you the loan. Apple gets paid up front, the bank collects payments. Is it so hard to believe that they would want to make sure they will recover their funds? It's the first year of the program, perhaps they'll loosen restrictions down the line but I think it's a reasonable requirement first year out.

The employee himself suggested I just quickly setup a new line w/ T-Mo or AT&T and then cancel as soon as I get home and just keep the phone (which he said several had done).

So....how is the bank protected in that scenario?

If you open up a line of credit they've approved, that's supposed to be all the protection the bank needs (the usual collections avenue on defaulting borrowers). Having a new activation with the carrier does nothing to shield the bank when you can immediately cancel the service.

Plus the whole point of buying SIM-Free is to be as far from any one particular carrier's BS as possible. If you wanted an iPhone upgrade like program with Carrier crap, you could get the programs they offer individually at the carriers.

 

[0970373]

It just doesn't make practical sense though because the employee himself suggested I just quickly setup a new line w/ T-Mo or AT&T and then cancel as soon as I get home and just keep the phone (which he said several had done).

So....how is the bank protected in that scenario?

Or in any scenario really? If you open up a line of credit they've approved, that's supposed to be all the protection the bank needs (the usual collections avenue on defaulting borrowers). Having a new activation with the carrier does nothing to shield the bank, especially when you can immediately cancel it.

Plus the whole point of buying SIM-Free is to be as far from any one particular carrier's BS as possible. If you wanted an iPhone upgrade like program with Carrier crap, you could get the programs they offer individually at the carriers.

It does make practical sense on a large, nationwide scale. Of course there are exceptions but if I'm laying out millions, there has to be criteria. Requiring a post-paid account with an established carrier is a much better sign of stability than pre-paid accounts or an MVNO. It's a sign you're sticking around and not skipping out on this loan. Sure people will open accounts only to close them but the number of people willing to do that would be much smaller so it does reduce risk.

I'm not saying that this should always be the policy but it makes sense in the first year of the program. As a bank, you're trying to reduce risk as much as possible. I understand why it's upsetting to you but if again, it's a loan and the borrower has to live by the lender rules. These are theirs for now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

It does make practical sense on a large, nationwide scale. Of course there are exceptions but if I'm laying out millions, there has to be criteria. Requiring a post-paid account with an established carrier is a much better sign of stability than pre-paid accounts or an MVNO. It's a sign you're sticking around and not skipping out on this loan. Sure people will open accounts only to close them but the number of people willing to do that would be much smaller so it does reduce risk.

I'm not saying that this should always be the policy but it makes sense in the first year of the program. As a bank, you're trying to reduce risk as much as possible. I understand why it's upsetting to you but if again, it's a loan and the borrower has to live by the lender rules. These are theirs for now.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

There's no more or less difficulty in starting and then canceling a prepaid or postpaid service to accomplish exactly the same thing. Each one takes minutes at most and is simple to cancel. (And it's bizarre to have Apple employees recommending the postpaid start and cancel routine. Lol)

Under both scenarios a ditcher on the loan will just get the IMEI blacklisted and its game over mostly anyhow (save for extremely limited international eBay sales, etc)

Silly rule they should reconsider or at least give managers discretion on moving forward.

 

[melman101]

I have to say I agree with turbinesaplane. They make you have a credit card, not even a debit card. They do 3 payments authorization. And they do a hard pull. I'm pretty sure they have enough to be safe.

Secondly, like they say, you can just cancel your postpaid line immediately after and it would get them no where. Or you can just use your friends. Like why couldn't someone just use my AT&T line. The phone will be transferred to the new sim, but then they give me the new sim, and I pop it in my phone. And then they use their SIM.

 

[0970373]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

There's no more or less difficulty in starting and then canceling a prepaid or postpaid service to accomplish exactly the same thing. Each one takes minutes at most and is simple to cancel. (And it's bizarre to have Apple employees recommending the postpaid start and cancel routine. Lol)

Under both scenarios a ditcher on the loan will just get the IMEI blacklisted and its game over mostly anyhow (save for extremely limited international eBay sales, etc)

Silly rule they should reconsider or at least give managers discretion on moving forward.

Well one is the hard pull vs soft pull on the credit check. Post-paid carrier account requires a hard pull. The AUP is a soft pull. I haven't seen anything on my credit report. So even if you plan on cancelling the post-paid account, you're jumping through some hoops to do this. I'd say you're probably committed enough to continue making payments. There will be exceptions to that. But if you can't even be approved for a post-paid carrier account then I wouldn't take my chances on laying out $1000 for that person.

But yes, seems we will agree to disagree. Perhaps you have more faith in the general public but there are many people willing to scam the system. I'm sure it'll loosen up in time once the bank starts to see profits, because that's what it comes down to. Profits for the bank, not your (or my) happiness or being "fair" to people on MVNO or pre-paid accounts.

 

[bradl]

Well one is the hard pull vs soft pull on the credit check. Post-paid carrier account requires a hard pull. The AUP is a soft pull. I haven't seen anything on my credit report. So even if you plan on cancelling the post-paid account, you're jumping through some hoops to do this. I'd say you're probably committed enough to continue making payments. There will be exceptions to that. But if you can't even be approved for a post-paid carrier account then I wouldn't take my chances on laying out $1000 for that person.

But yes, seems we will agree to disagree. Perhaps you have more faith in the general public but there are many people willing to scam the system. I'm sure it'll loosen up in time once the bank starts to see profits, because that's what it comes down to. Profits for the bank, not your (or my) happiness or being "fair" to people on MVNO or pre-paid accounts.

AUP is a hard pull. showed up as such on my credit report from Equifax, as well as many others.

BL.

 

[eyeseeyou]

Even if you don't buy a phone from the carrier isn't the cost of the phone still built into your monthly cell phone bill?

Buy $800 iphone from apple $80 phone bill

Buy a $200 iphone from at&t still an $80 phone bill but part of that phone bill goes towards that $600 at&t owes to apple.

Is this correct?

 

[0970373]

I have to say I agree with turbinesaplane. They make you have a credit card, not even a debit card. They do 3 payments authorization. And they do a hard pull. I'm pretty sure they have enough to be safe.

Secondly, like they say, you can just cancel your postpaid line immediately after and it would get them no where. Or you can just use your friends. Like why couldn't someone just use my AT&T line. The phone will be transferred to the new sim, but then they give me the new sim, and I pop it in my phone. And then they use their SIM.

Again, those are hoops you have to jump through. You're friend is going to let you use his account and SS# so that you can get a phone? That's a good friend.

AUP is a hard pull. showed up as such on my credit report from Equifax, as well as many others.

BL.

I didn't see anything on mine. My score didn't change either.

 

[turbineseaplane]

AUP is a hard pull. showed up as such on my credit report from Equifax, as well as many others.

BL.

Was just about to say that same thing - Internet is full of people reporting the AUP is a hard pull.

So you show up with active SIM card, get a hard pull credit check and an actual credit card with 3 months of authorization plus tax & first month charged up front...

...and that's still not enough?

That's crazy. That's ample safe guarding against some sketch trying to "bulk buy and re-sell", or any other concerns.

 

[bradl]

Again, those are hoops you have to jump through. You're friend is going to let you use his account and SS# so that you can get a phone? That's a good friend.



I didn't see anything on mine. My score didn't change either.

It takes 3 pulls for it to affect your credit score. That doesn't say anything about it not being a hard pull, as the AUP is extending an unsecured line of credit (loan) for you to use for the AUP. That is indeed a hard pull. And that hard pull wasn't just what was reported by the credit bureaus - it was also reported by Citizens One, and mentioned by their reps.

Also, they only use Equifax for this, so you may be checking the wrong reporting bureau. Check Equifax for the pull.

BL.

 

[0970373]

It takes 3 pulls for it to affect your credit score. That doesn't say anything about it not being a hard pull, as the AUP is extending an unsecured line of credit (loan) for you to use for the AUP. That is indeed a hard pull. And that hard pull wasn't just what was reported by the credit bureaus - it was also reported by Citizens One, and mentioned by their reps.

Also, they only use Equifax for this, so you may be checking the wrong reporting bureau. Check Equifax for the pull.

BL.

That's interesting. I checked all 3 just yesterday. I used my annual free credit reports thing to check. Figured it was a good time to check following the TMO/Experian breach. I wonder if the hard pull is random? I didn't see it and I got my phone on release day so it should have shown by now for sure.

 

[Lobwedgephil]

I'm guessing it didn't work out for the OP.

 

[bradl]

That's interesting. I checked all 3 just yesterday. I used my annual free credit reports thing to check. Figured it was a good time to check following the TMO/Experian breach. I wonder if the hard pull is random? I didn't see it and I got my phone on release day so it should have shown by now for sure.

Showed up for me using the same thing, plus CreditKarma.

BL.

 

[Warbrain]

So we're upset because Apple is following the terms and conditions outlined for the program?

Some of you need to take a deep breath.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So we're upset because Apple is following the terms and conditions outlined for the program?

Some of you need to take a deep breath.

We're just frustrated because it'd be nice to see an option for the AUP with the Sim-Free models that caters to those of us who don't want to deal with any carrier nonsense beyond what is necessary (an active SIM card basically).

Hard credit check, 3 months credit card Auth + 1st month + taxes should be more than enough security for the bank -especially since the "carrier activation" is a smoke screen the Apple store themselves is instructing people on how to go around.

I'm personally a prepaid user for no reason beyond the fact that I like having my bill each month be a hard and fast $ number. My credit is exceptional - I just can't stand post paid. The post paid days were awful (constant extra charges, fees, overages you couldn't understand, etc)

 

[Warbrain]

We're just frustrated because it'd be nice to see an option for the AUP with the Sim-Free models that caters to those of us who don't want to deal with any carrier nonsense beyond what is necessary (an active SIM card basically).

Hard credit check, 3 months credit card Auth + 1st month + taxes should be more than enough security for the bank -especially since the "carrier activation" is a smoke screen the Apple store themselves is instructing people on how to go around.

I'm personally a prepaid user for no reason beyond the fact that I like having my bill each month be a hard and fast $ number. My credit is exceptional - I just can't stand post paid. The post paid days were awful (constant extra charges, fees, overages you couldn't understand, etc)

Their rules are the rules. You're expecting to not follow them. They did nothing wrong.

 

[duaneu]

Even if you don't buy a phone from the carrier isn't the cost of the phone still built into your monthly cell phone bill?

Buy $800 iphone from apple $80 phone bill

Buy a $200 iphone from at&t still an $80 phone bill but part of that phone bill goes towards that $600 at&t owes to apple.

Is this correct?

No, it depends on what kind of plan you have. If you have an older legacy plan, the phone subsidy is built in, so paying it whether you get a new phone or not. Most newer plans have a discount if you have paid off your old device, bring your own device, or finance through the carrier.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Their rules are the rules. You're expecting to not follow them. They did nothing wrong.

I think you're perhaps misinterpreting a touch.
I never said they "did anything wrong" - I'm merely expressing frustration that they don't have an AUP option for sim-free.

It's a moot point - I ended up grabbing one from craiglist anyhow

Ultimately it all worked out - I'm not sure I like being on any payment plan at all, no matter what sort of "deal" it might be...so I guess they saved me from myself (and I saved $120 from buying outright from Apple store anyhow).

All good

 

[eyeseeyou]

No, it depends on what kind of plan you have. If you have an older legacy plan, the phone subsidy is built in, so paying it whether you get a new phone or not. Most newer plans have a discount if you have paid off your old device, bring your own device, or finance through the carrier.

Never letting go of my grandfathered unlimited data plan. NEVER!