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You are missing the point and making a strawman argument.

People object to Apple putting out a camera that is not capturing a true likeness and not having an option to turn off that feature.

I was arguing against Apple applying the smoothing effect to people's pictures. Apparently you are arguing against it as well, so I don't see what your problem is. Do you mean that in order for people to dislike this camera effect, they must dislike it for exactly the same reason as you?

You are missing the point. Would you agree that Apple have an issue with their selfie/front facing camera that is not present on the rear facing camera where it is not taking realistic photos and that said feature will be fixed either by removing it or adding an option.

No, I don't agree with that statement and neither does MR:

While it's mostly the front-facing camera that's been under scrutiny, this is a problem that affects both the front-facing and rear-facing cameras and it's not entirely limited to skin. Excessive smoothing can be seen affecting other images as well.
 
If there is a phone out there that can enhance my mug, sign me up! Oh, wait...I already have it! Off I go then to take some selfies...:p
 
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
As I said, the end result is a beauty mode and Apple does not allow you to turn it off.

It is not capturing a true likeness and Apple will fix it - do you agree with this point?
It's still not a duck.

The point is that people seem to think that Apple snuck in a "beauty mode" which seems to be popular with android smartphone OEMs without informing users, especially those from China, presumably in an attempt to better cater to the asian market. Which implies chicanery and dishonesty of some sort, rather than the more likely explanation - the software processing needs more work.

If it is indeed an issue, Apple will hopefully get round to fixing it in a future software update, but facts still matter.
 
It's still not a duck.

The point is that people seem to think that Apple snuck in a "beauty mode" which seems to be popular with android smartphone OEMs without informing users, especially those from China, presumably in an attempt to better cater to the asian market. Which implies chicanery and dishonesty of some sort, rather than the more likely explanation - the software processing needs more work.

If it is indeed an issue, Apple will hopefully get round to fixing it in a future software update, but facts still matter.
So you think it is not an issue that needs fixing? Just curious on your opinion on that fact?
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Do you mean that in order for people to dislike this camera effect, they must dislike it for exactly the same reason as you?
No I stuffed up and didn't read your post correctly.
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His presentation is totally over the top and annoying.
I can see why some people might have that opinion.
I did just look at some of his titles, and yes, some of them could be considered click bait.

I still value his opinion and trust his integrity. He is usually factually correct
 
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Apple, I love the new front-facing camera. All my friends who see it will be switching over or upgrading.
 
That’s all well and go but I think you miss the point of the complaints. Folks are saying that Apple is basically airbrushing photos against folks will. As if to say that folks are imperfect and even ugly. Like the magazines that brush away cellulite, pump up cleavage etc.

if that’s what they are doing then their ‘beauty filter’ needs work cause my selfies actually make me look worse than I do in real life cause they flatten my face to make it look fatter (just like regular cameras in poor light always have) and every pore and pimple stands out rather than being brushed away. And I’m using a Xs. A proper ‘beauty’ filter should at least be covering up my pores and pimples and my genetic black under the eyes,right.

I think "against their will" is a bit of an overstatement. You'd think the British Parliament was taxing the American Colonies, a public school teacher was requiring non-Christian students to recite Christian prayers, or some prep school boys had dropped roofies into their dates' fruit punch. Of course, if you don't think "against their will" is overstatement, feel free to toss a shipment of iPhones into Boston Harbor.

ALL camera makers make this kind of decision, all the time. That's why camera reviewers make a point of evaluating things like a camera's JPG processing, color balance, and automatic exposure modes. All these things (and more) are an expression of what the camera makers think their users will like, rather than being in strict adherence to "reality." Because what is reality when it comes to any two-dimensional rendering of a three-dimensional world that's made with equipment that does not duplicate the sensitivity and capabilities of human senses (and the minds that process that sensory input)?

The manual controls on a camera are not there to allow a photographer to capture "reality." They're there for creative control. Adjust depth-of-focus to draw the eye to the key elements of the composition and push the extraneous farther into the background. Slow the shutter speed to turn a moving car into a ghostly streak. Under-expose the background to silhouette foreground objects... Photographers often grossly distort reality in order to convey a particular message or capture an unusual aesthetic viewpoint. The closest any photo can come to "reality" is the semblance of reality.

In the Age of Photoshop, NOBODY is striving for truth or reality. We're far more interested in having our personal version of reality. The threshold of honesty isn't a matter of whether we can see someone's blemishes in sharp focus; not when we can't trust that the ultra-sexy selfie we receive is of the person who sent the selfie.

As to whether what Apple is doing is a "beauty filter," Apple hasn't sold it that way. That's what other people are calling it. And if Apple decides "the people have spoken" in favor of less smoothing and a cooler skin tone, you'll see it in an upcoming iOS update. No need to buy a new camera. No need for Apple to add additional settings and controls; they'll simply dial things back so that detecting the "beauty filter" will take a far more practiced eye. In the end, for the vast majority of humanity, a good selfie is a flattering selfie, not a truthful one.

When it comes to distorting the shape of your face, it's all about wide-angle lens distortion. A selfie camera, by necessity, needs to have a wide angle lens, because our arms are too short to hold the camera at a distance that allows the use of a more flattering telephoto lens. Move the camera closer or farther from your face, and your face will look dramatically different. Raise the camera above your head so that you're looking up, and your double chins won't show. Tilt your head down to face the camera and your chin and jowls will be accentuated. It doesn't matter what smartphone (or DSLR) you use. Don't blame the camera, blame the photographer.
 
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So you think it is not an issue that needs fixing? Just curious on your opinion on that fact?
https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/28/iphone-xs-selfies-skin-smoothing/

Apple did reach out to one guy and informed him that they are looking into this issue. My guess is that Apple might expedite a minor patch (say iOS 12.01) which helps the skin remain natural to the eye no matter the lighting conditions, but I don't think it's a serious issue overall.

I am not saying it shouldn't be fixed, just that it (like the charging issue in another thread) seems to have been blown way out of proportion by a certain youtuber who apparently has an axe to grind with Apple. Highlighting the issue is one thing, jumping to conclusions that Apple is trying to sneak in a beauty feature is another thing, especially when a little bit more research would have turned up the same findings that other youtubers such as Front Page Tech did.

But yeah, the truth is a lot less sexy, and generates less uproar (and fewer clicks), I suppose.
 
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https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/28/iphone-xs-selfies-skin-smoothing/

Apple did reach out to one guy and informed him that they are looking into this issue. My guess is that Apple might expedite a minor patch (say iOS 12.01) which helps the skin remain natural to the eye no matter the lighting conditions, but I don't think it's a serious issue overall.
On the scale of issues, its at the lower end of the scale, I do wonder why a company as large as Apple didn't fix something so obvious prior to release. I do think Apple as a company needs better QC from my personal experience with Apple.
 
On the scale of issues, its at the lower end of the scale, I do wonder why a company as large as Apple didn't fix something so obvious prior to release. I do think Apple as a company needs better QC from my personal experience with Apple.
My personal opinion is that Apple simply has their plate full. To the point where if you really want to trace the issue back to its source, I imagine that the reality is that software development is a 24/7 job, but the iPhone had a hard deadline by which all development had to stop prior to the phone shipping. So they focused their resources on fixing the most egregious bugs and refining the user experience the best they could up to that point, and the rest would simply have to be pushed down to the end user in the form of future software patches.

Maybe Apple didn't spot the bug, or felt it was an issue, or decided it wasn't a main priority at the time. Who knows.

I am not trying to excuse their missteps, just trying to put what they do in perspective. Apple is likely moving mountains just maintaining annual refreshes of the iPhone and Apple Watch, together with maintaining 4 separate OSes, plus the numerous other software, hardware and service projects. I can see why minor things like this invariably slip through the cracks.
 
My personal opinion is that Apple simply has their plate full. To the point where if you really want to trace the issue back to its source, I imagine that the reality is that software development is a 24/7 job,
I would hate to work anywhere if its software was developed 24/7. Developers work office hours normally, well at least if you don't want burn out and you can't scale development on a particular system like you can in a factory. It doesn't work that way.
but the iPhone had a hard deadline by which all development had to stop prior to the phone shipping.
development won't stop, they just freeze a particular version and carry on.
So they focused their resources on fixing the most egregious bugs and refining the user experience the best they could up to that point,
correct
and the rest would simply have to be pushed down to the end user in the form of future software patches.

Maybe Apple didn't spot the bug,
unlikely
or felt it was an issue, or decided it wasn't a main priority at the time.
more likely
Who knows.

I am not trying to excuse their missteps, just trying to put what they do in perspective. Apple is likely moving mountains just maintaining annual refreshes of the iPhone and Apple Watch, together with maintaining 4 separate OSes, plus the numerous other software, hardware and service projects. I can see why minor things like this invariably slip through the cracks.

Things do slip through the cracks, but this is an obvious one that would be seen early on.

Apple don't really have 4 separate OSs, just two, iOS and macOS. watchOS and tvOS mostly tweaks to iOS.

They also don't have the defences that Android have with all the fragmentation and different hardware/os combinations to deal with.
 
I would of thought this would be a good 'feature' to have. not an issue. Your getting better selfies... and isn't that a better result ?

No different than saying half of the submitted photos online are re-touched
 
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And why is smoothing a problem?

because it creates a further unrealistic expectation, leading to more unhappiness and malaise? As a person that is not particularly attractive, I know that "normal" people are discriminated against at every level (see job promotions, see tipping, see just general social interactions etc) and as the world becomes more shallow (cough instagram) then AAPL is promoting this vapidity. But hey SJW Tim Cook will surely check whatever way the twitterati are tweeting and come up with some political spin on this.

As much as Tim Cook talks about diversity that apparently does not extend to diversity of looks and attractiveness - only photogenic media friendly "diverse" people count, I guess..


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I would of thought this would be a good 'feature' to have. not an issue. Your getting better selfies... and isn't that a better result ?

No different than saying half of the submitted photos online are re-touched
certain countries are passing legislation such that beauty magazines have to mention whether photos retouched because this constant faking of what we believe to be verbatim photos is affecting the mental health of people.

As a society we are not equipped for this type of technological fakery.
And the media (old and new) is complicit in exploiting this!
 
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You even look better el natural. Agreed X takes a better pic

Agreed, though that's not me, I took the screencap from unbox therapy's video.

By the way, I knew this seemed familiar, the whole 'beautifying' reminds me of Bruce Willis' movie Surrogates, it looks like society is heading that way?

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MV5BMjEzMTU5OTY0Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMDA0NjA3Mg@@._V1_.jpg

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https://9to5mac.com/2018/09/28/iphone-xs-selfies-skin-smoothing/

Apple did reach out to one guy and informed him that they are looking into this issue. My guess is that Apple might expedite a minor patch (say iOS 12.01) which helps the skin remain natural to the eye no matter the lighting conditions, but I don't think it's a serious issue overall.

I am not saying it shouldn't be fixed, just that it (like the charging issue in another thread) seems to have been blown way out of proportion by a certain youtuber who apparently has an axe to grind with Apple. Highlighting the issue is one thing, jumping to conclusions that Apple is trying to sneak in a beauty feature is another thing, especially when a little bit more research would have turned up the same findings that other youtubers such as Front Page Tech did.

But yeah, the truth is a lot less sexy, and generates less uproar (and fewer clicks), I suppose.

Sorry, I don't see how you can undermine something like this when we are seeing constant articles left and right about the new smart HDR feature and how the camera is the flagship feature of the new XS, it is a big deal especially when Samsung is doing the same exact thing of smoothening skins on purpose but with the crucial difference of making it optional.

There is absolutely no excuse for this, for years people criticize Samsung of saturating photos, or making them unreal, why in the world would Apple get a pass on this when they are making the camera capture fake reality?

You don't wanna call it "beautifying filter", fine, but it's definitely a software algorithm coded purposefully by Apple. It needs to be fixed, and the only way Apple can take action is with articles and social media going bonkers. Otherwise, Apple sleeps on laurels for ages.
 
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I would of thought this would be a good 'feature' to have. not an issue. Your getting better selfies... and isn't that a better result ?


NO! It's not a good feature, it's awful feature for those who have been using iphone camera's in their business to capture a before photo. It needs to be turned OFF!!!!

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! EXACTLY!!!

The cameras on my iPhone are used in my business and Not being able to get a raw unadulterated image with this new phone is disaster if Apple doesn't fix it this ASAP!

These cameras were supposed to be an upgrade in capturing detail over a 6S, not this overprocessed mess!
 
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And why is smoothing a problem?

Retouching should be an option, not the default behavior of a camera. You want the ability to record the reality of something. What if the camera enhanced the appearance of something you were reporting, complaining about, or thinking of buying?

Even if you welcome smoothing, it might not be applied intelligently. It can compromise details that preserve believability. Look at a beauty product commercial with Jennifer Anniston or Diane Keaton. They are shameless illusions.
 
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In the end, Apple should fix this as part of the iOS 12.0.1 update. Make this image smoothing an optional feature. (By the way, Samsung needs to do that also. They too have been criticized for overly-aggressive image processing on their Galaxy S and Galaxy Note phones, which is too bad because these Samsung phones have excellent cameras.)
 
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Can you imagine a battered woman using her selfie cam to accurately capture the abuse only to have it beautify her?, Making the abuse seem not as bad.
 
Do I understand correctly that only the front camera is affected?

I don't see any difference compared to the iPad's front camera anyway.
 
They need to make this a toggle. I took some pics this weekend with the front camera and it really bothered me. It just looks fake. It's noise reduction and a "beauty mode". I understand if I want this on for certain applications but i'd prefer to be able to toggle it.

EDIT: I think what is actually happening is is that the engine realizes it's a face so it smoothes the photos. On images of other objects it didn't do this.

It's a definite stretch from the iPhone camera team to tout the "cameras" abilities. We've come so far I think we should wait till the optics are better before we start screwing with filtering skin. Unless this is going to become the normal.... :( :(

Toggle please.
 
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At first, I thought of this exact same movie because the smoothing effect looks so similar. But there is one difference: In the movie, people get to choose the appearance of their surrogates, or to not use a surrogate at all. In the case of the iPhone camera, Apple has already made the decision for the person. Other notable TV/movie references include:

Twilight Zone, "pig people" episode
Star Trek, "The Cage"


Agreed, though that's not me, I took the screencap from unbox therapy's video.

By the way, I knew this seemed familiar, the whole 'beautifying' reminds me of Bruce Willis' movie Surrogates, it looks like society is heading that way?

s-l300.jpg


MV5BMjEzMTU5OTY0Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMDA0NjA3Mg@@._V1_.jpg
 
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At first, I thought of this exact same movie because the smoothing effect looks so similar. But there is one difference: In the movie, people get to choose the appearance of their surrogates, or to not use a surrogate at all. In the case of the iPhone camera, Apple has already made the decision for the person. Other notable TV/movie references include:

Twilight Zone, "pig people" episode
Star Trek, "The Cage"

One of my favorite episodes The Cage and The Menagerie :)
 
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