iPhoneDrive invalidates warranty

[myndex]

I was having sync issues with my iPhone, and was given a trouble ticket, then sent to me Apple store - when asked if I had unlocked, or used any third party apps on the phone, I said now, only the commercially available iPhoneDrive, which makes no alteration to the firmware.

The "genius" at the bar stated that using iPhoneDrive invalidates the warranty - and he refused to even replace my sync cable (which was partly why I went to the store).

Tell me how a sync cable can be damaged by software - it can't.

A careful reading of Apple's warranty states only that if an item is damaged BY third party software, it falls out of warranty. The Apple warranty DOES NOT state that third party software in and of itself invalidates the warranty.

The Magnuson-Moss Act prohibits anyone who offers a written warranty from disclaiming or modifying implied warranties. This means that no matter how broad or narrow your written warranty is, your customers always will receive the basic protection of the implied warranty of merchantability.

In other words, there are certain things the EULA cannot abolish, relating to implied warranties.

I thus believe that Apple is in breach of certain state laws relating to this issue. The remedy is a civil or class action.



But there's more:

If Apple has written and distributed software (such as iPhone 1.1.1) that *intentionally* and *maliciously* damages users phones when installed, then they are easily in breach of many other state and federal laws. A class action is the way to prosecute this.



A

 

[siurpeeman]

you already started a class-action thread that got thrown into the wasteland. do us a favor and give it a rest.

 

[myndex]

Don't you think it's important to to inform people that even applications like iPhoneDrive - which makes no mods to firmware - is considered a warranty invalidating use of the iPhone?

I think that's important for people to know.


A

 

[thirdeyeopen666]

Don't you think it's important to to inform people that even applications like iPhoneDrive - which makes no mods to firmware - is considered a warranty invalidating use of the iPhone?

I think that's important for people to know.


A

Not that I'm considering buying it even for a second, but I wonder if this will apply to Missing Sync for iPhone as well.

 

[myndex]

Not that I'm considering buying it even for a second, but I wonder if this will apply to Missing Sync for iPhone as well.

According to the apple store, yes.

I and my attorney believe this is a breach of law, implied warranties, and a few others things.

A

 

[Passante]

snip
But there's more:

If Apple has written and distributed software (such as iPhone 1.1.1) that *intentionally* and *maliciously* damages users phones when installed, then they are easily in breach of many other state and federal laws. A class action is the way to prosecute this.



A

What are you smokin? Why don't you go to zunescene.com and join the social.

 

[Sun Baked]

If you have a lawyer AND a similar wastelanded thread, what do you need this thread for?

 

[Feverish Flux]

According to the apple store, yes.

I and my attorney believe this is a breach of law, implied warranties, and a few others things.

A

I get closer to moving out of this country everyday.

 

[acrafton]

I get closer to moving out of this country everyday.

Where would you move?

 

[BlackMR2]

Australia is pretty good, just not Sydney because everyone there is gay and house pricing is crazy.

 

[myndex]

If you have a lawyer AND a similar wastelanded thread, what do you need this thread for?

This thread is to point out that using commercially available software, that does not alter the iPhone nor the iPhone's firmware, has Apple claiming that it voids the warranty.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised at the animosity here - lawsuits like the one proposed in the "wasteland" post are the kind that result in the product being opened up, and more to the point, stop Apple from actively disabling third party features. Isn't that what everyone wants?


A

 

[thomasfxlt]

This thread is to point out that using commercially available software, that does not alter the iPhone nor the iPhone's firmware, has Apple claiming that it voids the warranty.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised at the animosity here - lawsuits like the one proposed in the "wasteland" post are the kind that result in the product being opened up, and more to the point, stop Apple from actively disabling third party features. Isn't that what everyone wants?


A

I don't mind the discussion of this, I just can't stand the immediate jump to "class action lawsuit". Talk to the GM at a store. Bring a copy of the software license agreement and warranty with you. Point out specifically what you've done and align it with the terms in the docs and make your case. Perhaps they will ask one of the Genius's to reset your phone. Perhaps. Threatening behavior will get you nowhere.

 

[thomasfxlt]

This thread is to point out that using commercially available software, that does not alter the iPhone nor the iPhone's firmware, has Apple claiming that it voids the warranty.

To be honest, I'm kind of surprised at the animosity here - lawsuits like the one proposed in the "wasteland" post are the kind that result in the product being opened up, and more to the point, stop Apple from actively disabling third party features. Isn't that what everyone wants?


A

Oh, and regarding the 3rd party stuff. The majority here does not represent the majority of iPhone users. Most iPHone users don't know this site exists nor do they care about messing with their phone. They want to turn it on and have it work the way Apple designed it. That's the real truth.

 

[myndex]

I don't mind the discussion of this, I just can't stand the immediate jump to "class action lawsuit". Talk to the GM at a store. Bring a copy of the software license agreement and warranty with you. Point out specifically what you've done and align it with the terms in the docs and make your case. Perhaps they will ask one of the Genius's to reset your phone. Perhaps. Threatening behavior will get you nowhere.

The "manager" referred me to Apple's legal department.

Okay, so be it.

But you can't deny warranty service on a hardware issue do the a user using software.



And I should point out that I'm a died-in-the-wool apple user - been an Apple user since 1987. But their recent attitude towards users is baffling to me, and feels kinda "microsofty" don't you think?



A

 

[Sobe]

The "manager" referred me to Apple's legal department.

Okay, so be it.

But you can't deny warranty service on a hardware issue do the a user using software.


A

I doubt that's how it went.

Even the most dumb-witted CS worker won't blow you off to the legal department unless they are threatened with legal action first.

 

[thomasfxlt]

The "manager" referred me to Apple's legal department.

Okay, so be it.

But you can't deny warranty service on a hardware issue do the a user using software.



And I should point out that I'm a died-in-the-wool apple user - been an Apple user since 1987. But their recent attitude towards users is baffling to me, and feels kinda "microsofty" don't you think?



A

I think they're trying to protect a massive investment in a very difficult business space and I think they're right for doing it. I think they should help you reset your phone, but if it's broken due to stuff that's been tinkered with, I think you're out of luck. Apple should not have to devote technical resources to phones that have been used outside the confines of the SLA and/or disclosed parameters. JMO

 

[Naimfan]

According to the apple store, yes.

I and my attorney believe this is a breach of law, implied warranties, and a few others things.

A

You're both wrong.

 

[myndex]

I think they're trying to protect a massive investment in a very difficult business space and I think they're right for doing it. I think they should help you reset your phone, but if it's broken due to stuff that's been tinkered with, I think you're out of luck. Apple should not have to devote technical resources to phones that have been used outside the confines of the SLA and/or disclosed parameters. JMO

If damage was "caused by" tinkering, then yes, of course they don't have to repair *that* damage.

But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty.

iPhoneDrive does no "tinkering" with the phone. Thus Apple cannot then refuse warranty service to test teh USB cable and the connector on the phone.

A

 

[VoodooDaddy]

2 things that crack me up are found in this thread:

1) something goes wrong and its an instant class-action lawsuit

2) something goes wrong and its "Im done with Apple, MS here I come"

:lol:

You used a 3rd party app not supported by Apple. Im not surprised that you were refused. Your biggest mistake was telling them you used it. Let us know how the lawsuit goes.

 

[sanford]

The confusion with iPhoneDrive is that it doesn't install anything on the iPhone. No native apps, no "jailbreaking". Nothing. It seems merely like a slightly more specialized version of something like Telekinesis, which allows you to remote control a Mac, view compatible files that are on the Mac and stream media from that Mac to your iPhone, all via Safari on the iPhone. But that precept is wrong: iPhoneDrive *does* install things on your iPhone; it installs those files you want on the iPhone. Telekinesis *streams* data to the iPhone, it doesn't copy it there. Sure bits of media may be written into the media cache and bits of, say, Word documents maybe written into the browser cache. But that's cache; cache data is expected and there by design, and the contents of it are ignored outside a very limited window of use. Matters not they are not executable files, it's certainly reasonable to consider that unexpected data in the iPhone file system may interfere with a proprietary sync'ing system that has certain expectations of what it is in the file system. The Apple technician was right. They can't support it. He was wrong that it completely invalidates the warranty. Restore your iPhone, which will delete all the iPhoneDrive data, making your iPhone supportable. If you can restore the iPhone with the provided software to a condition Apple will gladly support, you not only have no class action, you have no action at all.

Restore your iPhone. Get it evaluated and if necessary fixed, all under warranty. (Take it to another Store technician, as the one you saw obviously doesn't know the difference between temporarily invalidating your warranty and permanently voiding it.) Go back to using iPhoneDrive if you wish, bearing in mind you'll have to restore before having any possible future issues addressed by Apple.

I was having sync issues with my iPhone, and was given a trouble ticket, then sent to me Apple store - when asked if I had unlocked, or used any third party apps on the phone, I said now, only the commercially available iPhoneDrive, which makes no alteration to the firmware.

The "genius" at the bar stated that using iPhoneDrive invalidates the warranty - and he refused to even replace my sync cable (which was partly why I went to the store).

Tell me how a sync cable can be damaged by software - it can't.

A careful reading of Apple's warranty states only that if an item is damaged BY third party software, it falls out of warranty. The Apple warranty DOES NOT state that third party software in and of itself invalidates the warranty.

The Magnuson-Moss Act prohibits anyone who offers a written warranty from disclaiming or modifying implied warranties. This means that no matter how broad or narrow your written warranty is, your customers always will receive the basic protection of the implied warranty of merchantability.

In other words, there are certain things the EULA cannot abolish, relating to implied warranties.

I thus believe that Apple is in breach of certain state laws relating to this issue. The remedy is a civil or class action.



But there's more:

If Apple has written and distributed software (such as iPhone 1.1.1) that *intentionally* and *maliciously* damages users phones when installed, then they are easily in breach of many other state and federal laws. A class action is the way to prosecute this.



A

 

[rdowns]

From the FAQ on their site:

Q: Does iPhoneDrive work okay with the iPhone v1.1.1 firmware upgrade?

A: Yes, it still works fine.


OK, can we move along to then next iPhone whiney thread?

And of course it tinkers with your phone. How could you possible think otherwise?

 

[Sobe]

If damage was "caused by" tinkering, then yes, of course they don't have to repair *that* damage.

But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty.

iPhoneDrive does no "tinkering" with the phone. Thus Apple cannot then refuse warranty service to test teh USB cable and the connector on the phone.

A

The iPhone doesn't have an official Disk Mode.

You bought a product that, yes, hacks the iPhone into having one.

The only problem here is your inability to use the proper terminology for what you did to your phone and your inability to recognize that it's a valid reason to deny you your warranty service.

What are they supposed to do -- test the mod on their phones to see what it might or might not do in case you need their help after using it?

 

[DeaconGraves]

If damage was "caused by" tinkering, then yes, of course they don't have to repair *that* damage.

But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty.

iPhoneDrive does no "tinkering" with the phone. Thus Apple cannot then refuse warranty service to test teh USB cable and the connector on the phone.

A

From the iPhone warranty:

"This warranty does not apply... (c) to damage causeed by operating the product outside the permitted or inteded uses decribed by Apple; (d) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a rperesntative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider"

You are narrowly constricting the warrnaty to voiding hardware upgrades when it shouldn't be. You installed a program which upgraded the features of the iPhone beyond Apple's intentions. You are at fault.

What part of installing a non-authorized 3rd party application (which all 3rd party applications are at the moment) does not require "tinkering"?

 

[Limeyness]

If damage was "caused by" tinkering, then yes, of course they don't have to repair *that* damage.

But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty.

iPhoneDrive does no "tinkering" with the phone. Thus Apple cannot then refuse warranty service to test teh USB cable and the connector on the phone.

A

iPhonedrive does no tinkering? how does it work then? does it change the way the phone works? then it tinkers.

 

[Cleverboy]

Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes...

If damage was "caused by" tinkering, then yes, of course they don't have to repair *that* damage. But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty. iPhoneDrive does no "tinkering" with the phone. Thus Apple cannot then refuse warranty service to test teh USB cable and the connector on the phone. A

You don't really know that. You're not sure exactly WHAT iPhoneDrive does, except that it lets you save files to a section of the flash hard drive on your iPhone. When you're talking about adding a RADIO to your car, you're correct. When you're talking about a software platform you (or I) don't have a clue what will or won't have an adverse unintended consequence on the functioning of our devices.

Q: Does iPhoneDrive change system files or do anything that would void the iPhone's warranty?
A: No, iPhoneDrive will store your files in the media section of the iPhone's disk, and will not change the iPhone system.

Sounds like they should update their FAQ. They've tied two questions together and one isn't addressed. Now... watch carefully... in a different section, called "Known Issues", you'll find something that flies in the face of statements that using iPhoneDrive does not affect the system...

Known Issues
Large Files: Copying very large files (1 GB or more) could cause iPhoneDrive to crash. This will be fixed in the next update.

Any idea what this does to the iPhone, to have an incomplete file copy operation occur, just to have that software doing the transfer crash? My impression is that it could adversely affect the file system. Also, its not clear to me how the diskspace on the system is tallied. Does copying over 1GB to an unauthorized section of the phone have unintended consequences? It always struck me as odd, that my AppTap installer showed I had less space available than I KNEW my iPhone actually had.

Lots of questions. I think in this modern time, there is a lot of financial incentive to sell people on things that might cause problems, but offers otherwise unoffered benefits.

I personally heard that iPhone will be getting diskmode back, but that Apple is planning to do it in a very specific way, that hasn't been completed yet. It makes it more and more difficult to do an update when people keep altering an environment that would otherwise have been prestine and ready to go.

~ CB