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I didn't hack anything. I used a commercial piece of software which does nothing to invalidate the warranty as written, and certainly not as implied.

Whatever.

A

Yeah, you kinda did. It doesn't make data stored elsewhere viewable on the iPhone -- a la Telekinesis, which is no different in concept than displaying via Safari a Web page stored on a server out on the Internet, even though it's a Word document on your Mac upstairs. You actually put the data *on* the phone. The phone doesn't expect that data to be there. Potential problem.

Over this, which is nothing like hacking to put native apps on the phone -- "jailbreaking" -- or certainly not unlocking, I think there is a chance they didn't record the fact you "voided" your warranty. In fact, if it was totally restored, the tech should have known it was clean no matter what you said. Go to a different Apple Store or call AppleCare. Keep mouth shut. If it restored to it factory specs, you almost surely did no permanent damage to it.
 
I doubt the software actually even invalidates the warranty or violates the EULA. I think the OP intentionally said the software "runs on the phone" when it doesn't, and the "mac genius" has no idea what the software actually is or does, so he took the OP at his word and assumed it DID run on the phone, hence invalidating the warranty.

The correct answer when the genius asked if the OP had 3p software running "on the phone" or had modified the phone is "no." The software runs on the desktop, not the phone, and doesn't modify the phone at all.

Looks to me like the OP was just trying to have his warranty invalidated so he'd have a reason to whine/sue.


Not at all.

I protested strongly at the Apple store, telling them that the software does not even run on the phone, and that it in no way unlocks nor alter firmware - they did not care.

Their statement was specifically "if you use any non-apple software of any kind in-connection with the iPhone, you invalidate the warranty".


I wasn't fishing for a lawsuit nor anything else of that nature - I only wanted my cable and phone tested to isolate the issue (which seems that it may be my USB port on my G5).


I believe the attitude from this apple store was unwarranted (pardon the pun) and actually, against laws regarding warranties.

A
 
I didn't hack anything. I used a commercial piece of software which does nothing to invalidate the warranty as written, and certainly not as implied.

Whatever.

A

Did the software come from Apple or was it an iTunes 'upgrade patch'? If the answer is no (which, of course, it is), then "whateverrrrrrrr (holding an L against my forehead)"
 
Yeah, we see your poll. You don't need to post about it in every thread.

Fancy that...

With all the talk of bricks, they should be directed in the proper direction.

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I agree with the OP.

The warranty specifically states that the damage had to have been *caused by* the hack/modification to void the warranty, and still the extent of the denied service only covers said damage. Go read it.

As long as the OP's phone issue cannot be traced back to iPhoneDrive, he should be covered. That is what is stated in the warranty terms, and that is the LAW.
 
Personal responsibility is so 20th century. Sense of entitlement is where's it's at. :p

Right, as long as it's about luxury items like iPhones and latest iMacs. One wouldn't want to descend to feeling entitled to food stamps, for instance. That remains so outré, especially if one is carrying a $4k/mo mortgage.

I'm not trying to make any kind of political point. I do feel that getting obsessively homed in on something like the arrival date of an iPod is indicative of a major loss of perspective on what's important and what's pretty trivial.

But then I did buy an iPhone on the very day of release :D by driving 180 miles round trip, having said I wasn't planning on doing that. :confused: And, I am not currently awaiting arrival of a touch iPod. So I guess I'm actually coming from a rather unattractive "I've got mine, Jack" place. :eek:

So "Entitlement, entitlement!" is just an epithet I toss out after I've got whatever it is that matters to me.. Very niice. The longer I live the more I see in myself that, uh, needs a little more work...
 
I agree with the OP, too. I don't see any way that Apple can really argue that software installation causes, for example, a defective synch cable. Some people here are just a little too dedicated to worshipping Apple. So far as I'm aware, there's no general law of the land with regard to EULA's and SLA's - with some courts upholding some provisions and others ruling them unenforcable.

I don't think anyone can dispute that this has been really badly handled by Apple. Leaving aside the general issue of the policy, there's no consistency here. In some places we're hearing about unlocked iPhones being exchanged with a wink and a nod and in other places we're hearing absurd stories like this one where they refuse service on a clean, locked, and un-jailbreaked phone because the user admitted to once having had a FILE UTILITY installed on it.

And, while I don't know if anyone here is a lawyer - I suspect that none of the people who've spoken are - I think there's probably some serious questions as to the extent that Apple can get away with its conduct here. At the least, they're pushing towards the line.
 
I agree with the OP.

The warranty specifically states that the damage had to have been *caused by* the hack/modification to void the warranty, and still the extent of the denied service only covers said damage. Go read it.

As long as the OP's phone issue cannot be traced back to iPhoneDrive, he should be covered. That is what is stated in the warranty terms, and that is the LAW.

You're still here? It's over. Go home...... :D
 
Not at all.
Their statement was specifically "if you use any non-apple software of any kind in-connection with the iPhone, you invalidate the warranty".

Right. I guess they told you that running Windows on your desktop is also "in connection with the iPhone."

I don't believe one word of your story.
 
I agree with the OP.

The warranty specifically states that the damage had to have been *caused by* the hack/modification to void the warranty, and still the extent of the denied service only covers said damage. Go read it.

As long as the OP's phone issue cannot be traced back to iPhoneDrive, he should be covered. That is what is stated in the warranty terms, and that is the LAW.

Thanks you Mashoutposse (and adamyoshida) for being among the voices of reason.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable - and I do believe that the Apple policy I was presented with is wrong, and in fact, against certain laws.


A
 
Honestly, give this guy (myndex) a break. In no way does he come across as "malicious" or "whiney". Myndex, if your story is true, I find it to be very informative, and I appreciate you bringing it up. You cant throw him under the bus for talking legal issues when even the Apple store manager has referred him to the legal department.
 
Thanks you Mashoutposse (and adamyoshida) for being among the voices of reason.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable - and I do believe that the Apple policy I was presented with is wrong, and in fact, against certain laws.


A

What I think some people miss here is that this isn’t an issue of settled or clear-cut law. In essence, so far as this works, courts have generally upheld the validity of EULA’s and SLA’s – but have refused to recognize what might be termed as “unconscionable provisions.”

What does that mean in practice? Well, there’s no clear cut line. It would be impermissible, I’m sure, to offer a product with a warranty that was voided as soon as the unit was turned on. But, beyond that, there are stages.

For example, it’s clear to me – as it ought to be clear to everyone – that modifying the hardware of a product in an unsupported way (by physically opening up the case and, for example, soldering something to the board or removing physical chips from the unit) voids the warranty. I think that’s common sense.

But, in general, in order for a promised warranty to be held void as a result of the actions of the user, it must be at least within the balance of probabilities that the user in some way caused the damage in question. For example, conversely, I think it would be fairly clear – without extraordinary circumstances – that a car manufacturer cannot declare a power train warranty void because the end user installed an aftermarket stereo system.

Where does that leave us with the iPhone. As I see it – and again, I’m not a lawyer (just an aspiring one):

1) Any physical modification of the iPhone certainly voids any warranty or guarantee.

2) Unlocking the iPhone would, in all likelihood partially void the warranty – insofar as the unlocking process flashes the firmware and can cause damage to the chips which contain the firmware. However, I have a hard time seeing how Apple could contend that, for example, unlocking could cause a failed logic board or for a touchscreen to become non-responsive.

3) I just don’t see any way in which it could be reasonably held that Third Party applications void the warranty. Indeed, this is an absurd notion – one which Apple users, of all people, ought to be loath to accept. It’s akin to a Microsoft getting together with computer manufacturers and declaring that installing non-Microsoft software on a unit would void the warranty. Even if this isn’t illegal, it’s still just a plain bad policy.

The important point, which a lot of people don’t seem to grasp, is that companies can’t – in all cases – create an enforceable contract by simply dictating certain provisions. If it was true, we’d all spend hours each day reading thousands of EULA’s word-for-word to make sure we hadn’t just signed over our children’s lives.

Beyond that, this is just plain bad policy for Apple. By far, aside from a few specialized professionals, Apple’s computer brand in particular is built upon goodwill and the fact that the brand, for various reasons, tends to be favoured by people who are influencers. In general, I would suggest that the people who have unlocked iPhones and iPhones with third-party applications on them are probably Apple’s best salesmen, not only of iPhones but of computer units.

Steve Jobs is a brilliant businessman. But he’s not God. Remember – this is the same guy who insisted that all fans be omitted from the Apple III, resulting in chips popping out of their sockets and Apple issuing a technical bulletin instructing users to pick up their computers and to drop them to reseat the chips.

Apple saw the unlocking numbers, and the number of unlocked units being shipped around (at this point, there are unlocked iPhones at ever third-party cell phone kiosk that I pass in Vancouver – if I was going to guess, I would guess that there are not tens but probably more than 100,000 unlocked iPhones floating around at the moment) and they panicked. They sent out a policy bulletin to their front-line staff which is being interpreted in wildly divergent ways, as we can see here. They’re also alienating the affections of a fair number of people who play an important role in building Apple’s brand.

See, I like Apple – I own a lot of Apple hardware. But I’m not blind. I can see that their computer line-up is kind of strangely aligned. I can see that there’s been a real decline in the physical quality of a lot of these products in the last few years. I can also see that the company is, in many ways, probably stretched a bit too thin for its size – which is why we see so many product dates slipping.

I also have the feeling that we’re seeing, in this case, both the negative and positive effects of Steve Jobs. Visionary on one side but, of the corporate executives of which I’m most familiar, the one most likely to make decisions based entirely upon personal whims.
 
in defense of the OP you are all kissing apples ass. apples not right all the time.. (as much as i like kissing apples ass)
 
The best way to handle tech support is to never tell them you were using any program/third party hardware/hack/mod etc. If you've physically modified the device, then yes, you're most likely SOL.
 
in defense of the OP you are all kissing apples ass. apples not right all the time.. (as much as i like kissing apples ass)
No... actually YOU are wrong. And for the record, while you may like "kissing Apple's ass", all you need is logic on your side to see the truth here. Apple isn't a non-profit or government institution. Do you know what a EULA is? We live in a society based on agreements for a reason. Break them, and you lose the benefits of those agreements. Seems straight forward to me.

~ CB
 
Thanks you Mashoutposse (and adamyoshida) for being among the voices of reason.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable - and I do believe that the Apple policy I was presented with is wrong, and in fact, against certain laws.


A
So why don't the three of you and your hotshot lawyer go ahead and file for your class action, instead of playing Internet Legal Team?

Presumably, someone with your vast legal experience would know that all members of the affected class would be notified, making your efforts to "raise awareness" rather pointless.

A
 
But you can't deny warranty service on a hardware issue do the a user using software.


You are clearly wrong on that, because they did it to you. Now can they legally do it? Who knows, one way to find out.

I do find this misapplication of warranty laws in this forum the last week to be very amusing. I missed so much when I was on vacation.
 
But if the damage is wholly unrelated, they are still obligated to support the warranty.


And there is the rub. You have ZERO chance of proving that. Apple has a MUCH better chance of proving your actions did in fact damage the device.

Sorry, but there are plenty of examples of warranties not being honored because of product modifications. Direct and specific damage is not a requirement.

You better find a different lawyer. Better yet, ask him if he will take the case on a consignment basis. See if he is serious or just looking to bill you.

Your best bet in this case is to contact the iPhoneDrive people and see if they can help. They have more to lose then you do. Perhaps they can help facilitate your issue. Your actual issue is a bit different then most.
 
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