Exactly. You may not like the price of an iPhone, but there's simply no argument - at all - that any price gouging law in the US applies.
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iPhones/Galaxy S5/Note 4... Consumer Price Gouging
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Exactly. You may not like the price of an iPhone, but there's simply no argument - at all - that any price gouging law in the US applies.
My main complaint isn't actually with Apple pricing. iPhone MSRP is actually a lot lower in the US compared to, say, China or Hong Kong (go figure). My beef is with wireless carriers who want everyone to pay device subsidies even when they weren't getting a subsidized device. Why is someone who buys a Nexus 5 from Google out of pocket being forced to pay the same rates as someone who got a $450 subsidy on a latest gen iPhone? I'm extremely grateful to T-Mobile for essentially forcing AT&T and Verizon to change from their old subsidy model or at the very least to offer alternatives which clearly delineate service pricing from device pricing.
You don't even read the replies in this thread that have addressed this issue. Clearly you don't know much about the way the US plans have worked, are working now and where they are headed.
Your posts contribute nothing to this useless thread, and this thread contributes nothing to the board.
This post contributes nothing.
Why do smartphones like the iPhone 6 Plus or even the Samsung Note 4 cost so much money to buy outright? Particularly when the same technology from the same companies (e.g., iPads) cost substantially less to purchase outright?
I'm curious, why did you buy it if you thought it was too expensive for what it is?? Surely you could have bought an iPad mini or other stuff that you mentioned, no?
I obviously knew what the cost was. Regardless of me buying it, that has nothing to do with the question at hand. Just remove me out of this and focus on the question.
Why do smartphones like the iPhone 6 Plus or even the Samsung Note 4 cost so much money to buy outright? Particularly when the same technology from the same companies (e.g., iPads) cost substantially less to purchase outright?
What? The ipads are only marginally more expensive than the iphone 6 plus, not substantially. 6 plus 128GB = $949. 128GB LTE ipad air = $929, a whopping $20. The ipad mini retina is $829, again not substantial. I will say it again because you obviously missed it before, like I said before. Now that carrier subsidies are GOING AWAY, we may see some blowback of the pricing of these phones in the near future. People are FINALLY starting to realize what they REALLY cost now that the carriers aren't burying the costs in the bill so that no one truly knows what the actual cost is/was.
People always thought iPhones cost $199/$299/$399. Obviously the plus it $100 more. For the 10th time, this is starting to change, people are wising up to this.
Lastly, for the 3rd time, you can't just look at the cost of the phone as if it has no value. Meaning the $949 you spent on your 6plus is not all gone at the end of the day. A year from now you will be able to sell that phone for roughly $500.00.
Not sure if you realize this but the iPhone is Apple's number one product right now. They sell more than they can make - the more they sell the less the product costs them. They are in the business to make money and really, the price of the phone has not changed since the 3G. The only phone that was whacked with pricing was the first phone - each phone after was the $199/$299/$399 IIRC.
Sorry you didn't like it. As far as I'm concerned you have failed to demonstrate any grasp whatsoever of the subject matter you're purporting to talk about, and this thread contributes nothing. Done wasting my time on this nonsense.
The OP clearly doesn't understand price gouging. It is not illegal (in the US) for an entity (person or company) to sell a product or service or whatever that they made or offer regardless of how much it actually cost them. Price gouging is if you sell widget X for Y price to person A but charge Z price to person B for no reason at all.
If I made widget X, I can charge whatever the heck I want for it. What law exists in the US that says I can't do this? For certain products/services (think utilities like gas, water, electricity, etc.), there are laws to regulate prices. But not for stuff like phones.
Also, BOM (no extra C) is just the materials for the components. There are also hidden costs like licensing fees, IP fees, R&D costs, software costs, manufacturing/assembly costs, environmental recycling costs, etc. Particularly licensing fees to companies like Qualcomm for their RF technology. BOM alone isn't enough. Making a product isn't as simple as buying components and assembling them. Software isn't free, you pay for developers' salaries and such. But how do you charge that per unit? You really can't. Going through FCC to certify the device isn't free. It costs money to do that and people to employ to follow the process through. BOM is just a really rough estimate.
But fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with making a product and charging a price for it. US is (loosely) a capitalistic/free market. If a price is too high, the market will force an adjustment or the company goes broke because no one in the market will buy it (or too few).
If I made widget X, I can charge whatever the heck I want for it. What law exists in the US that says I can't do this? For certain products/services (think utilities like gas, water, electricity, etc.), there are laws to regulate prices. But not for stuff like phones.
Also, BOM (no extra C) is just the materials for the components. There are also hidden costs like licensing fees, IP fees, R&D costs, software costs, manufacturing/assembly costs, environmental recycling costs, etc. Particularly licensing fees to companies like Qualcomm for their RF technology. BOM alone isn't enough. Making a product isn't as simple as buying components and assembling them. Software isn't free, you pay for developers' salaries and such. But how do you charge that per unit? You really can't. Going through FCC to certify the device isn't free. It costs money to do that and people to employ to follow the process through. BOM is just a really rough estimate.
But fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with making a product and charging a price for it. US is (loosely) a capitalistic/free market. If a price is too high, the market will force an adjustment or the company goes broke because no one in the market will buy it (or too few).
You have failed to read this thread. This has already been covered.
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An iPad Air 16 GB Cellular costs $629.
An iPad rMini 16 GB Cellular costs $529.
An iPhone Plus 16 GB costs $749.
An iPhone 6 16 GB costs $649.
And thanks for pointing out the top end: iPad Air and rMini are still cheaper than the iPhone 6 Plus.
Why do smartphones like the iPhone 6 Plus or even the Samsung Note 4 cost so much money to buy outright? Particularly when the same technology from the same companies (e.g., iPads) cost substantially less to purchase outright?
Good. I read the first 3-4 pages before giving up.
It's not price gouging. End of thread.
Why do smartphones like the iPhone 6 Plus or even the Samsung Note 4 cost so much money to buy outright? Particularly when the same technology from the same companies (e.g., iPads) cost substantially less to purchase outright?
It's not the same. It costs more to make it smaller than to make it bigger. As an engineer, it also takes more effort to make it smaller than to make it bigger. Also, I mentioned licensing fees and Qualcomm. The RF stuff for cellular networks is not just buying the physical chip. There are licensing fees that have complex calculation methods. And it doesn't end at RF chips. There are many IP that Apple pays fees for. And verifying through regulatory agencies like FCC isn't 100% free either. And there is a fee for electronic waste recycling. All sorts of hidden costs. Back in the day, products didn't have so much "baggage" or as we programmers call it; "overhead".
Again, all those things (except the miniaturization) apply to the iPads too. While packing all that tech onto a smaller board may account for some costs, I sincerely doubt it's enough to make the iPhone 6 plus $220 more expensive than a retina mini
It does cost more to make things smaller. If you don't agree on this, then this conversation ends right here.
The base model iPad mini DOES NOT have a cellular RF chip and the associated licensing fees that Apple must pay to Qualcomm (and other companies). Have you ever wondered WHY the LTE iPads costs $129 more than WiFi only? The chip itself is not that expensive. But add in licensing and other IP fees, the gap isn't as big as $129 anymore. Also, Apple wants to profit so add that in there. That is not price gouging. That is just called running a business. If every company sold their products for exactly what it cost to design/manufacture/assemble and make them, then no one will ever make another product. Because you put in all that effort and get zero profit. Essentially, you are making no money. A business makes money. If not, then it's a failed business. That simple.
If this is the case then the MacBook Pro 13" would be cheaper than the MacBook Pro 15" and the 11" MacBook Air would be the most expensive of them all. Let's not forget that the Mac Mini would be more expensive than the iMac. Hell, the MacBook Air would blow away the Mac Pro in terms of being that much more expensive because of the miniaturization of it.
Do you guys think Apple hires midgets to work on these smaller devices?
If this is the case then the MacBook Pro 13" would be cheaper than the MacBook Pro 15" and the 11" MacBook Air would be the most expensive of them all. Let's not forget that the Mac Mini would be more expensive than the iMac. Hell, the MacBook Air would blow away the Mac Pro in terms of being that much more expensive because of the miniaturization of it.
Do you guys think Apple hires midgets to work on these smaller devices?
Well that is also not correct. They are all different product categories. iPhones and iPads share so many similar components. The WiFi chip, Bluetooth chip, SoC, many other ICs are the same. The only major difference between an iPhone and an iPad is the enclosure, battery and display. The actual computer part of it is extremely similar. But the other products? You can't compare them so generally.
Mac Mini doesn't have a display. iMacs do. So that accounts for part of the price difference. iMac displays are also calibrated, which requires labor and that's not free. Mac Mini doesn't have a dedicated GPU, some iMacs do. iMacs also come with keyboard and mouse, both of which aren't free to make.
Actually, the 13" MBP is cheaper than 15"... I think you meant the 13" should be more expensive. But again, the reason for that is the 15" has different components like more expensive processors (quad core vs dual core), dedicated GPUs (these are expensive), bigger/higher resolution displays, etc.
Also, the size ratio between iPad and iPhone is much larger than 13" MBP and 15" MBP. So the price difference between iPad and iPhone is larger than 13" and 15" MBP.
11" MBA has different components than either of the MBPs. Processors are cheaper since they are ULV. Also, if you remember, the first ever MBA were significantly more expensive than either MBP models. Why? Because it was really hard to make it thinner/smaller/lighter/etc. And it cost a lot more. It was only after a period of time that the costs went down. Again, business/economics 101. Price does down in time because of more volume over time. It costs less per unit if you produce say 10 million than if you produced 5 million. Economics of scale works here.
The Mac Pro is more expensive because the internal components are different. Xeon processors over Core i3/i5/i7. ECC RAM over no ECC. Dual dedicated desktop class GPUs over mobile GPUs or integrated Intel GPUs. 6 Thunderbolt ports and 3 Thunderbolt chipsets.
I can go on and on... but the crux is that you misunderstood the definition of price gouging.
I am comparing to the LTE models.
iPhone 6 plus 16GB - $749
iPhone 6 16GB - $649
iPad Mini LTE 16GB - $529
Those discrepancies don't make sense. Again, some cost may be due to miniaturization, but it's not the whole story (if smaller objects with the same tech always cost more, the iPhone 6 should be more expensive than the 6 plus)
iPad mini with Retina display, LTE, 16GB is $529...
Again, it costs more to make things smaller. Also, iPads can't make voice calls. iPhones can. There is extra hardware, software and IP costs.
I see you modified your post. Your logic is flawed yet again. For simplicity, let's say the internal components of an iPhone 6 and 6 Plus are the same. All of the chips are the same, i.e. WiFi, Bluetooth, NFC, SoC, RAM, etc. So what are the differences? Larger, higher resolution display. Larger external casing. Larger glass. Larger battery. Better camera (OIS). All of that isn't free. And that's why the 6 Plus costs $100 more.
Honestly, you guys are comparing apples to oranges and then oranges to apples and wondering why it's different.
I don't think he has bought the phone... I think he wishes to buy the phone and is mad that he can't afford it... He clearly has started this thread with a one point agenda... He doesn't even read the posts which address and answer his concerns...
If i could make a phone on my own without a factory and an engineering team i would. would same me so much money every year
I made a typo. Corrected that and added the iPhone 6 price while I was at it.
It costs more to make the logic board smaller. But for things like displays and digitizers (two significant costs on the iPads), costs increase with size. Same with batteries. LTE iPads use the same basebands as iPhones, and thus are subject to the same IP costs for using cellular technology. While software support for the phone is missing, iPads have plenty of unique software enhancements themselves. Also note that the iPhone 6 is cheaper than the 6 plus, iPad mini is cheaper than the iPad air, and MBP 13" is cheaper than the MBP 15". Clearly Apple doesn't always believe that smaller should be more expensive.
The only real answer is that Apple is able to get away with the iPhone pricing because of subsidies inflating the prices across the board. If those subsidies never existed, the iPhone would very likely be cheaper than its bigger brothers.
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