iPod Classic's Future in Doubt Due to Shrinking Market for 1.8" Hard Drives?

[Firefly2002]

I've just tried to point out several times that as our iTunes Libraries have grown larger than the largest capacity iPod available, it would benefit the "I need my whole Library with me" crowd to learn how to use smart playlists to bring along a good representative mix and maybe even save you some $$$ from buying the next biggest capacity. I stopped at the 60GB when I recognized my listening pattern was better suited to a smart-rotating playlist than always trying to have the capacity to sync everything.

I like having my whole library.

Sometimes I one song will pop into my head, and I'll be like dammit I wish I could listen to that.. then I realize that of course I can, it's all on my iPod.

Granted I only have 5.00 GB of music 😀 But I have some videos on there too =)

Hell I wouldn't mind having whole seasons of TV shows on my iPod, and I've enough space to do it... couldn't really do that with only 16-32 GB.

 

[kernspaltung]

Monster iPods Available

I just bought a 240GB refurbished iPod from ipodzens* (http://www.ipodzens.com/), and I'm very happy with it. It's so nice to have your whole music collection on your iPod in lossless format. I don't have to manage two libraries. I don't have to convert to AAC. And I don't have to decide what music to have with me. Why compromise?

😀

So, a message to Apple: The drives are available, so please release a new, high-capacity iPod Classic (and bring back the superior audio circuitry of the 5.5G). If you don't, we'll just buy from somebody else.

* I'm not affiliated with ipodzens; I'm just a happy customer.

 

[0098386]

I'm only 1 sale but I'd buy the biggest 1.8" HDD for a Netbook any day of the week.
It's a shame though. As soon as my 5.5G craps out I'm getting a Classic. With a 300gb iTunes library I need the biggest iPod I can buy, no Touch or Nano for me (well not as a main iPod).

I'm always pretty sure I'll feel like hearing something that I chose to put in my own iTunes Library. 🙄

Syncing a smart-rotating 10GB of my 80GB Library to my iPhone assures there's plenty I'll want to hear, and based on the criteria I've set I'll never hear the same song any sooner than 30 days (and only if it's a 5-star), except for new items I've added within 30 days which stay in heavy rotation. Genius really helps too, as I might suddenly be in the mood for "Classic Rock" or "Disco" after hearing a certain song, and one touch throws me into whatever I have that is similar.

Do you also bring a suitcase full of all your clothes with you every day, in case you don't feel like wearing what you put on in the morning? 😀

Suffice to say everyone has different listening habits. 99% of the time I play on Shuffle, so for me, as long as I have enough songs for my commute it really doesn't matter if I have 100 or 10,000 that have been smartly rotated and synced. A few months ago I was on a Nirvana kick so I just synced a playlist of all their albums until I got sick of it then dumped them.

I've just tried to point out several times that as our iTunes Libraries have grown larger than the largest capacity iPod available, it would benefit the "I need my whole Library with me" crowd to learn how to use smart playlists to bring along a good representative mix and maybe even save you some $$$ from buying the next biggest capacity. I stopped at the 60GB when I recognized my listening pattern was better suited to a smart-rotating playlist than always trying to have the capacity to sync everything.

And that's the important bit. That seems important to you, but what's important to me is being able to carry at least all my music which only the Classic can currently do. I don't know about you but I travel a lot. Every summer I go to the holiday home abroad, every few weeks I go visiting the girlfriend. I don't have the room or requirement to carry a laptop so I need a big HDD MP3 player.
So what works for me is being able to carry all my music. I've had to deal with a small iPod before (6gb Mini) and it was a nightmare wasting time with Smart Playlists trying to pick what songs I may want to listen to in the future.

And if we had to rely on your thinking why aren't you solely using a 1gb MP3 player 😉. That's enough for a few hours worth of compressed music.

 

[blybug]

I just bought a 240GB refurbished iPod from ipodzens* (http://www.ipodzens.com/), and I'm very happy with it.

I don't see on their website where you can make this kind of upgrade. Can you point me to that section? Can they take your current iPod as a "trade-in" ?

And that's the important bit. That seems important to you, but what's important to me is being able to carry at least all my music which only the Classic can currently do. I don't know about you but I travel a lot. Every summer I go to the holiday home abroad, every few weeks I go visiting the girlfriend.
...
And if we had to rely on your thinking why aren't you solely using a 1gb MP3 player 😉. That's enough for a few hours worth of compressed music.

Ha! It was actually the first-gen Shuffle that I bought for running that made me realize that I really had no need to keep upping my iPod every time a higher capacity came out. I was syncing the Shuffle to the same weighted smart rotating playlist that I always listen to and realized that 99% of the time I had no real need for the full capacity.

Having said that, the first thing I pack whenever traveling is my 60GB which has almost everything on it...just in case I need to hear something while away...😛

This whole thread got me to go try out Simplify Media again, hadn't really messed with it since it first came out soon after the first iPhone and it never really worked too well. Few versions later and an iPhone 3GS...really smooth. I listened to "all" my music from work last night without a hitch. I have to believe that this is where Apple will actually head...rather than higher capacity they will offer a Simplify-like service, probably through MobileMe. The "iPod Air" could have a small flash drive just to cache the music as it comes in, but no hard drive storage at all.

 

[kurosov]

This whole thread got me to go try out Simplify Media again, hadn't really messed with it since it first came out soon after the first iPhone and it never really worked too well. Few versions later and an iPhone 3GS...really smooth. I listened to "all" my music from work last night without a hitch. I have to believe that this is where Apple will actually head...rather than higher capacity they will offer a Simplify-like service, probably through MobileMe. The "iPod Air" could have a small flash drive just to cache the music as it comes in, but no hard drive storage at all.

Now that i'd buy. The only issue i have with simplify is you cant listen to music and run another app like you can with the iPhones iPod app.

 

[0098386]

I had an idea about that kind of service years back (along with everyone else). About streaming music from your home computer to your iPod but this was, 2002 and impossible with mobile data connections then.

I would like that now. Sync the iTunes library database to the iPhone (so it's quickly accessible) and it streams the music from your computer back home. But that wouldn't work as well if you go to a different country or lose the data connection.

... And that would mean leaving my computer on and connected to the internet back home. 😱

 

[blybug]

I had an idea about that kind of service years back (along with everyone else). About streaming music from your home computer to your iPod but this was, 2002 and impossible with mobile data connections then.

I would like that now. Sync the iTunes library database to the iPhone (so it's quickly accessible) and it streams the music from your computer back home. But that wouldn't work as well if you go to a different country or lose the data connection.

... And that would mean leaving my computer on and connected to the internet back home. 😱

Remember a version of iTunes 4.something came out for a brief time and allowed this kind of over-the-net streaming iTunes to iTunes, then was quickly updated to allow only local streaming. With the chains loosened a bit on DRM these days wonder if remote streaming will come back, at least through a controlled environment like MobileMe...if I can go "Back to My Mac", then why not also play my iTunes?

Surprising that the iPhone/Touch line doesn't already have at least the local streaming part included in the iPod application...they must be working on it. For remote streaming, perhaps users could permit MobileMe to scan their Libraries and upload music that it doesn't have, then the songs could stream from MobileMe rather than from your always-connected personal computer, sort of Pandora-style.

 

[kurosov]

I had an idea about that kind of service years back (along with everyone else). About streaming music from your home computer to your iPod but this was, 2002 and impossible with mobile data connections then.

I would like that now. Sync the iTunes library database to the iPhone (so it's quickly accessible) and it streams the music from your computer back home. But that wouldn't work as well if you go to a different country or lose the data connection.

... And that would mean leaving my computer on and connected to the internet back home. 😱

You can always set it up to use wake on wan. I leave mine on atm but have been thinking of getting a router upgrade for this.

 

[sushi]

Personally, I don't see the Classic going away.

The current HD used is a one platter drive to maintain the thickness of the Classic. Before we had 80GB (1 platter) and 160GB (2 platter) versions. The 160GB version was thicker than the 80GB one.

Now we only have the 120GB (1 platter) version.

My guess is that within 2 years from now we will see a solid state Classic from that point forward. I could see Apple going away from SSD to flash memory in the Classic as well -- just like the iPhone, iPod touch, Nano and Shuffle.

With 32GB flash memory chips being used in the iPhone and expected to be in the iPod touch (32 and 64GB) models, with the space in the Classic I would venture to say we could see 128GB to 256GB models. Cost is the issue. The rotating HD is still cheaper. Give flash memory a year or two. 😎

 

[Plymouthbreezer]

This would be unfortunate. 😡

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Isn't the classic the only remaining iPod that can be charged through firewire ?

 

[Eric S.]

Isn't the classic the only remaining iPod that can be charged through firewire ?

I believe that's correct. See:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/app..._faq/ipods-charge-and-sync-firewire-usb2.html

 

[kernspaltung]

240GB Monster iPod

I don't see on their website where you can make this kind of upgrade. Can you point me to that section? Can they take your current iPod as a "trade-in" ?

It was listed on their site just the other day, but it's possible I bought the last one they had built, 'cause I don't see it now. Since they refurbish iPods, I imagine they could start with yours or give you something for it as a trade-in. Just drop them an email, and I'm sure they'll be glad to tell you what they can do with your iPod.

I would've done this upgrade myself, but I didn't have a 5.5-gen iPod to start with. I have an old 4th-gen, but it's fairly well documented that the audio circuitry of the 5.5G is the best, and the 4th-gen won't support these high-capacity drives.

Anybody want a 40GB 4th-Gen iPod? 😉

 

[tabasco70]

I'm sure these 120 GB hard drives will last in the market long enough until 128 GB flash drives (or at least 64) become more common and appliable to devices like the iPod.

 

[sushi]

I'm sure these 120 GB hard drives will last in the market long enough until 128 GB flash drives (or at least 64) become more common and appliable to devices like the iPod.

I wonder if Apple will use SSDs, or revert to Flash memory like in the iPhone, touch, Nano and Shuffle.

I'm thinking they will go the Flash memory route due to cost, capacity and space issues.

 

[Sehnsucht]

A 256 GB solid-state iPod classic would be tasty. 😎

I've had two classics (80 GB and 120 GB) and while I liked having the space, the spinning hard drive inside always freaked me out. I only dropped them a few times, but still...I was super-paranoid about that.

I hope they update the screen and use a higher-resolution one than they're using now. The nano got a better screen with its last update, so here's hoping...

 

[good1]

wonder if Apple will use SSDs, or revert to Flash memory like in the iPhone, touch, Nano and Shuffle.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

wonder if Apple will use SSDs, or revert to Flash memory like in the iPhone, touch, Nano and Shuffle.

Not sure about 1.8" HDs, but Intel's making 1.8" SSDs. The overall market for 1.8" HDs is shrinking, not just for iPod classics, but in general. Until SSDs drop in price, there's no way Apple will be able to offer a >100GB SSD iPod Classic for under $300 because that's pretty much the cost of the drive itself.

 

[sushi]

wonder if Apple will use SSDs, or revert to Flash memory like in the iPhone, touch, Nano and Shuffle.

If you are going to quote a poster, use the quote button.

Then add your reply. It makes it easier for individuals to follow the conversation.

For your reference, my original quote from above:

I wonder if Apple will use SSDs, or revert to Flash memory like in the iPhone, touch, Nano and Shuffle.

I'm thinking they will go the Flash memory route due to cost, capacity and space issues.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I believe that's correct. See:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/app..._faq/ipods-charge-and-sync-firewire-usb2.html

Thanks a lot. Thats a fantastic overview. And quite important for everyone who ones a third party device that charges through firewire like the original iPod HiFi.

 

[Eric S.]

More speculation on the demise of the Classic today from CNET:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10292951-82.html

 

[fabianjj]

Nobody is really saying high capacity iPods are not necessary, and I doubt many "cannot imagine" why somebody would want one. But like many of the high capacity fans, my media library has outsized Apple's largest capacity offering from the time the first 5GB iPod was released. I expect that will continue to be the case particularly with video and higher quality lossless audio filling up space. My iTunes media library is over 700GB...should I really expect that an iPod of such size will be available any time soon?

I'd argue that the "iPod amateurs" are those who refuse to use the power of iTunes smart playlists to develop constantly updating and revolving sets of songs that keep a representative subset of your music on a smaller capacity device. If you have such a humongous library, it already does and will likely always outsize the latest and greatest iPod, so learning to do this is essential. My 10GB "Perfect Mix" on my 32GB iPhone feeds off 7 other smart playlists in my 80GB iTunes library that rotate through my favorite artists, 5-star songs, tracks that haven't been played in over a year, new additions to the library, cover songs, oldies, etc. I've always got a fresh mix and plenty of choice.

iTunes tells me it would take 41 days to play all the music in my library. I am rarely away from home/resyncing for more than 12 hours, and probably listen to about 2 hours worth of music each day while commuting. Yet I can still have 8 days worth of music on my iPhone. I never feel limited by my "CHOICES"...could you really fill a 160GB with your own music and not find something you like? I cannot recall a time when there was something I just needed to hear so badly that wasn't with me. And if that ever did happen, I'll be home in a few hours and I can listen then. Hardly a tragedy of life-altering proportions.

I do understand the desire to have a multi-TB or even virtually infinite capacity iPod. I'd love to have my entire music and video library with me all the time. But that's just not realistic right now, so learn to take advantage the tools that let you compensate for the shortcomings of modern drive capacity. What I actually expect from Apple as the future unfolds is NOT larger and larger capacity iPods, but continued perfection of the presently clunky streaming technology like Simplify Media that would allow an iPod with no capacity to play your entire iTunes library from anywhere.

Well you shouldn't expect an iPod to store everything you've got just because you've got it, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to be able to buy an iPod later this year that carries at least half of what an iPod could store three years ago.

 

[satcomer]

More speculation on the demise of the Classic today from CNET:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10292951-82.html

Makes you think they follow MacRumors. 🙄

 

[0098386]

Personally, I don't see the Classic going away.

Even though it's not the best selling iPod (or is it now?) it's certainly the most iconic. So yea I can't see it going away either.
And I hope they do switch to solid state when the tech is ready. It'd be nice if (due to the Classics size) they could fit in more capacity than it's smaller siblings to keep its selling point going.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I think one possibility--considering Intel recently shipping to customers very small 80 GB and 160 GB SSD's--is that Apple will switch to using an SSD for one last generation of the iPod classic.

Imagine the same physical shape as the current 120 GB classic, but with the following changes:

1) The screen is now a true 16:9 aspect ratio unit when the player is turned on its side. This means a somewhat bigger screen, but with the click wheel moved down to near the bottom of the player and reduced in size to accommodate the larger screen.

2) The player will function like a writ large 4G iPod nano, complete with accelerometer, full-screen display of album art, and automatic switch to Cover Flow when the player is turned on its side.

3) The space used by the 1.8" hard drive is replaced by a new SSD of 80 to 120 GB capacity.

This new player will NOT compete against the iPod touch, since it is emphasized specifically as a media player, not a multipurpose device the iPod touch is.