iPod HD with 20+ GB: do-it-yourself, buy, wait?

[Chetwood]

I've already been posting this over at ipodhacks.com but apart from 78 or so views it did not yield any comments. Due to your kinda limited search function (you can't search subjects exclusively) I'm not to sure if this has been already asked here before...

I've been testing the 5 GB iPod and I think it rocks big time. However, 5 GB is far to less for me to carry around. I would like to have a really huge selection of my favourite songs with me so my personal limit to make me buy an iPod would be a new one that has at least 20 GB.

I've read over at Toshiba that they already released 1.8" HDs with this cpacity but I guess it would be a little too expensive to buy a 5 GB iPod plus a 20 GB HD with most likely no chance of being able to sell the smaller HD. As well, I don't know if it is possible to swap the HDs easily.

Is it? Or should I wait and see wether Apple will release a new one with a larger HD, maybe the PC version (since I don't own a Mac and would have to buy a Firewire card too)? Or are there already shops around that do replace the built-in HD for a 'small' fee like some already do with the tacky Archos jukebox? Thanks for any info!

 

[Ensign Paris]

A 20-gig version will come out one day but I would not expect it before MWSF (Jan)

I would not do it myself due to it would void the contract you would have with Apple.

Ensign

 

[Paolo]

that's a cool idea

Why not do it, so what if oyu void your contract... they always weasle out of it anyway, if it isn't void... give it a go and if you live then you can tell the tale!

 

[Chetwood]

warranty void

Originally posted by Paolo
Why not do it, so what if oyu void your contract... they always weasle out of it anyway, if it isn't void... give it a go and if you live then you can tell the tale!

As said above: some 'companies' on the net do replace a 20 GB with a 30 GB HD in the Archos jukebox offering their own garanty for the replacement. AFAIK they also keep the smaller HD and add it up against your fee. I'd like to know if someone's already doing this for the iPod cause I haven't found anything on it so far.

And no, I won't buy that butt ugly Archos Jukebox; I wouldn't even if there'd be no iPod around...

 

[j763]

A bit off topic, i know... but still iPod...

I can now buy a 5GB iPod for $690AUD (which is roughly $345USD) down from $895AUD (which is roughly $445USD). That's like $100 US off... which is cool (with my wallet) but should I wait for MWNY?

stocks are limited, so should i buy or should i wait...

advice plz!

The Apple Store Australia still lists the iPod for $895AUD, I found this bargain over at Desktop Power Ivanhoe.

 

[Ensign Paris]

I would buy now, it is easiest (but don't blame me if the price does come down)

Applefritter's website might have something like this on, although I haven't been there recently!

Ensign

 

[Beej]

Originally posted by j763
A bit off topic, i know... but still iPod...

I can now buy a 5GB iPod for $690AUD (which is roughly $345USD) down from $895AUD (which is roughly $445USD). That's like $100 US off... which is cool (with my wallet) but should I wait for MWNY?

stocks are limited, so should i buy or should i wait...

advice plz!

The Apple Store Australia still lists the iPod for $895AUD, I found this bargain over at Desktop Power Ivanhoe.

Do they actually have that price on their site? I'd be interested in getting one at that price...

 

[AlphaTech]

It's not a simple task to change the hard drive in the iPod. If you do it, within the warranty period, you will void it. Any tampering with the internal workings of the iPod will void the warranty. Do NOT try to fix it yourself.

If you think you need more then 5GB of space on the iPod, then go and get the 10GB model. If 10GB is not enough for you (how many cd's do you have??) then wait for the 20GB model to come out (whenever that happens to be). Don't expect it to be the same price as the 10GB model is now, since the 1.8" drives are at a premium.

Has anyone seen the pricing of the drives lately?? From what I recall, the iPod's are selling for pretty much what the drives alone are going for.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
It's not a simple task to change the hard drive in the iPod. If you do it, within the warranty period, you will void it. Any tampering with the internal workings of the iPod will void the warranty. Do NOT try to fix it yourself.

The warranty is only 90 days. After that period, all bets are off with Apple. They have some pics here and here on taking it apart.

I wouldn't recommend it though. 10GB should be enough for anyone. Just rotate your songs/playlists and save some $ in the process.

Has anyone seen the pricing of the drives lately?? From what I recall, the iPod's are selling for pretty much what the drives alone are going for.

Correct. As you can see from this picture and this picture of the 5GB iPod take apart, the drive is the same as this 5GB model from Toshiba. $400 is the price of the 5GB drive alone. OEM manufactures obviously get a better deal on these than the consumer market does. You can't even buy anything over 5GB directly from Toshiba.

Another problem is thickness. This link shows the 20GB is 3mm bigger than either the 5 or 10GB 1.8" drives. So even if you could get one of these, you couldn't fit the back cover on. And the iPod would probably be heavier (due to two platters), have more power consumption due to more heads, etc. etc.

Moral of the story-- it's not worth it. Just wait, or buy the 10GB. Believe me, it's hard to fill up 10GB unless you're a music junkie.

 

[King Cobra]

The latest edition of MacAddict has a small portion of in depth material about the iPod and its individual components, except the scroll wheel.

Now I know that 1.8 inch Hard Drive prices are sky high, and I can just imagine (actually, I can't!) how much a 20 or 30GB iPod would cost. Why exactly are prices so high on those Hard Drives? Is it because they are hard to make or such?
__________________

Any time is a great time for iPod.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Why exactly are prices so high on those Hard Drives? Is it because they are hard to make or such?

You coould say that. Toshiba is the only consumer manufacturer of 1.8" drives.

Imagine how hard/expensive the maufacturing process is for these. And the market for them. More places develop bigger, faster drives, because that is what most people buy.

The prices are high becuase of the density of the platters and the scale of the overall technology. The R&D, manufacturing process, marketing, etc. etc. all contribute to the overall high cost. There is also no competition for Toshiba, so they can charge high amounts for their product.

All this creates a niche market which leads to high prices.

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Now I know that 1.8 inch Hard Drive prices are sky high, and I can just imagine (actually, I can't!) how much a 20 or 30GB iPod would cost. Why exactly are prices so high on those Hard Drives? Is it because they are hard to make or such?

New technologies always cost more when new. Also, miniturization costs money to do right. Remember how much the 2.5" hard drives were when they first came out?? How about the larger ones from IBM when they were initially released. While the 2.5" drives have been dropping in price (due to production being up, and demand not going through the roof) don't expect the same from the 1.8" drives. It would be interesting to see how much more involved the manufacturing process is on the 1.8" drives. Also, how many ones get produced that do not pass QA testing. If they have a high rate that doesn't pass the QA standards, that could keep the cost up.

Eventually, we should see the drive prices drop, just as with every other hard drive. It might take years though, since these drives were just introduced recently. Both 2.5" and 3.5" drives have been around for a long time (especially compared to the 1.8" ones).

 

[me hate windows]

Originally posted by Ensign Paris


Applefritter's website might have something like this on, although I haven't been there recently!

Ensign

They dont have anything on the ipod

 

[joed]

I also saw that Next Byte (Australia) are offering a AU$50 saving on the iPods and you get a further discount if you buy a mac.

It seems that every place (world wide) are offering savings on the iPod, even Apple (if you buy an iMac).

I would think that we would be seeing a price drop (RRP) on these soon. I don't own an iPod yet - waiting for Rev2. Anyone have any ideas on when we might see it?

We saw the 10Gb iPod arrive 6months after the original 5Gb was release, maybe MWNY? Here's hoping!


James.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by me hate windows

They dont have anything on the ipod

Apple fritter is a HW modder. The hacks for Apple's iPod are mostly software based. The main HW components of the iPod are:

•L-ion polymer Battery
•HD
•Apple's HW
•Case

That's it. Not much to it. You tweak with the battery, you have the potential of harming the HW and/or software. You tweak with the HW, same thing. Apple's HW will pretty much stay untouched, unless you want to kill it. And, at last, the case is the only thing that people have really modded.

Most of the so-called "mods" are software, and those are really weak hacks. Nothing has really come out to majorly change ANYTHING about the iPod besides it's external appearance.

IMO it doesn't really need modding, with the exception of games.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by joed
I don't own an iPod yet - waiting for Rev2. Anyone have any ideas on when we might see it?

We saw the 10Gb iPod arrive 6months after the original 5Gb was release, maybe MWNY? Here's hoping!

Rev. 2 all depends on Toshiba. The major limiting factor of these mp3 devices has been the HD. It's only made by toshiba yadda, yadda, all that stuff I said above.

The only 1.8" drive that's bigger is the 20GB. This is NOT the same spec as the 5 or 10GB. Limiting factors include:

•Size - 2 platters, thicker
•Power consumption
•Manufacturing
•Software/HW changes
•Price

I mean c'mon, 4000 songs in your pocket? Who really has that many? I think Apple really has its bases covered with the 5 and 10GB. Anything over that is waaay overkill. They're already expensive enough as it is. If you want to hope for anything at MW, hope that the price drops on the current models, not new models being announced.

The form factor is limiting as well. They would have to specially make a new iPod to house the 20GB and possibly re-work a few things SW/HW-wise to make it work. Couple that with the INSANE price of the drive and you have a non-possibility right now and for the immediate future.

 

[AlphaTech]

I'm siding with you mc68k... I have the 5GB iPod and I have yet to fill it up. I put all my cd's that I want to listen to on a fairly regular basis, as well as several tunes that I downloaded. I still end up with close to a GB of free space.

 

[joed]

Originally posted by mc68k


I mean c'mon, 4000 songs in your pocket? Who really has that many? I think Apple really has its bases covered with the 5 and 10GB. Anything over that is waaay overkill. They're already expensive enough as it is. If you want to hope for anything at MW, hope that the price drops on the current models, not new models being announced.

I don't want more songs - 10Gb is perfect. But seeing as it's their (Apple's) first attempt into MP3 players they are sure to modify/tweak it after customer feedback.

Rev2 may look exactly the same, but they would have perfected it more.

So, I'd like to see what they do with the iPod in the near future and then consider buying one. With the popularity of the devise I'm sure they will endevour to improve it, a company won't make too many risks in the first model and versions 1 of the software. We are already seeing the thing develop with firmware 1.1

But I see your point, won't hold my breath for MWNY.



James.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by joed
Rev2 may look exactly the same, but they would have perfected it more.

So, I'd like to see what they do with the iPod in the near future and then consider buying one.

James.

Yes, that I'm sure of. Just take a look at Apple's discusion forum, iPod -ing, -hacks, -lounge, or even me, and ask how much the iPod still needs to improve.

There are numerous HW and SW issues that still scream Rev A that need to be resolved soon. Mine luckily broke on me withing the measly 90 day. And it still cuts off my VBR mp3s soon sometimes.

I'm siding with you mc68k... I have the 5GB iPod and I have yet to fill it up. I put all my cd's that I want to listen to on a fairly regular basis, as well as several tunes that I downloaded. I still end up with close to a GB of free space.

I'm with you alpha', even if you could fill up 5GB, you can just rotate the songs and save $. 10GB is overkill IMO, unless you're an audiophile.

 

[joed]

Originally posted by mc68k

Yes, that I'm sure of. Just take a look at Apple's discusion forum, iPod -ing, -hacks, -lounge, or even me, and ask how much the iPod still needs to improve.

Yeah, I often checkout all these and there discussions - ok frequently! But it's hard to gauge weather this is 5% of 30% of iPod's sold - my guess would be 5% approx.

Bit worried about the firewire connector breaking issue, seems like quiet a few people are having this problem (or at least having the symptoms - ie not charging etc). And also only having a standard 90 day warrenty (I presume this is the same in Australia).

Oh, one question, how much do you use it as a Firewire drive compared to an MP3 player?

Just curious!


James.

 

[Chetwood]

call me audiophile or whatever...

Originally posted by mc68k

10GB should be enough for anyone.

Right, just like those 640 KB RAM should be enough for anyone! Admittedly, though a MAC fan ("Be like Mac!") said that but it was targeted at PC users...

Originally posted by mc68k


I mean c'mon, 4000 songs in your pocket? Who really has that many? I think Apple really has its bases covered with the 5 and 10GB. Anything over that is waaay overkill.

I'm astonished to see even you MAC experts believe in that marketing bla bla Apple came up with; besides didn't they speak of 2000 songs on 10 GB?

I'm not going to start an encoder discussion here but fact is that my personal 'mp3 artifacts treshold' is at 192 kbit/s. Even on my crappy car hifi I can hear some artifacts on mp3s encoded at 128 kbit and seldom even on 160 kbit and so all my personal stuff is done on 192 kbit which demands a larger HD.

Besides, I do own about 1000+ CDs and I've made a lot of mp3s of it (~ 43 GB ATM) and I like to carry around as much of them as possible simply because I like the diversity. I've got tons of different playlists of certain 'topics' (ordered by style, mood, year and so on) and I'd like to hear a certain song the moment I associate it with something that just happened.

So, you can call me an audiophile but I'm waiting on the day when we will all run around with small sugarcubed sized media that can hold TB of music. Seems I gotta wait some time cause as you mention the 20 GB HD seems to be too large for the current iPod. Still, I'm really interested to see if there will be a PC version; I won't buy it if it does not have a faster interface than USB 1.0 though.

BTW, could anyone enlighten me as PC user of the acronyms you're using? MWNY is a trade fair or something, and what are the dates? TIA.

 

[joed]

MWNY is MacWorld New York Expo which is held in mid July.

Looking around a few of the iPod sites there is numerous programmes that can support iPod on a PC but I believe you can't use it as a Firewire hard drive (ie Firewire mode) cause of the way the HD is formatted or something.

I also believe that Nomad JK3 has 20Gb and also firewire (but is the size of a large portable CD discman). This I think is the only direct competition with the iPod so it may be worth checking out.

However the iPod is easy to use and very small. But is designed for Macs - ie auto syncs with iTunes etc. Also, it seems that furute Firmewire will likely include AAC encoding (as well as MP3 and AIFF) which gives lower file sizes but still giving good quality sound - therefore fitting more songs on the iPod whilst not at the detriment of quality.

James.

 

[AlphaTech]

Re: call me audiophile or whatever...

Originally posted by Chetwood
I'm astonished to see even you MAC experts believe in that marketing bla bla Apple came up with; besides didn't they speak of 2000 songs on 10 GB?

I'm not going to start an encoder discussion here but fact is that my personal 'mp3 artifacts treshold' is at 192 kbit/s. Even on my crappy car hifi I can hear some artifacts on mp3s encoded at 128 kbit and seldom even on 160 kbit and so all my personal stuff is done on 192 kbit which demands a larger HD.

I have been pulling songs from cd's at the 160 bit rate and have never heard an 'artifact' as a result. I use either my kickin Koss headphones or Cambridge SoundWorks speakers (very nice ones). Granted, I don't get as many songs as I could with using the lower bit rate. You might want to try cleaning the drive that you are using to pull the songs from the cd's. What are you using to connect the iPod to your car?? If it is an FM transmitter, that could be where you get the artifacts. I know that there are different grades of cassette adapters, since I had a very good one that I was using (no artifacts from it).

 

[Chetwood]

Re: Re: call me audiophile or whatever...

Originally posted by AlphaTech


I have been pulling songs from cd's at the 160 bit rate and have never heard an 'artifact' as a result.... You might want to try cleaning the drive that you are using to pull the songs from the cd's. What are you using to connect the iPod to your car??

It's not at all a matter of the drive since I get to hear those artifacts only after having encoded them to 128 or 160 kbit (and by far not on all songs). The songs ripped to my computer's HD are 100% fine since I'm using decent hardware at not too high speeds. But I do hear artifacts or flaws in the encoded songs simply because it's no losless compression used.

You see, I'm talking about the flaws LAME and FhG ocasionally have on those 'lower' bitrates when I listen to them on my Onkyo at home; often I hear it when it comes to soft parts or when cymbals are used. I do not yet own an iPod.

Point is: as I gotta stick to higher bitrates this makes for another argument to have a larger HD. My main reason still is to have the luxury of a really large choice of songs...

 

[Paolo]

crap!

160kps is heaps, and generally the difference can't be picked up by the ear, unless on a very high quality speaker playing it VERY loud, which is unlikely if your playing it in your car, or headphones (unless you have sony earmuffs). Or if you plug it into a stereo system.
Plus that is the whole point of firewire!, you can keep changing your songs.... otherwise they would put it on USB!!!!!

[post edited by moderator, please have respect for other users]