Hello, too bad Apple did not release new MBP nor IPP. Considering to buy the 12.9" 2017 IPP or just get a 2-1 Windows tablet/convertible. The tablet is mainly for reading/annotating university textbooks and scientific papers. Are Windows tablet (such as Yoga) as good as the IPP?
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IPP 2017 or Windows tablet?
- Thread starter hajime
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Based on your description, I think I would go with the new iPad that was just released. It has Apple Pencil support which I believe is what you are looking for.
Personally, I'm looking at getting one of these Windows 2-in-1's. But I'm doing that because I want a dedicated keyboard and trackpad.
I don't think Windows in purely a table mode it quite there yet.
I don't think one is any better than the other. I think they meet different needs.
Thanks for sharing. I love the virtual keyboard on the IPP 12.9" 2017. I prefer it to a real keyboard.
The new iPad is nice but I found the screen too small for me. I used to use Samsung Galaxy Note PRO 12.2. With my two-month experience using the IPP 12.9", the screen size is just about right.
Too bad no new release of Apple Pencil 2. Pencil loses power so quickly.
The new iPad is nice but I found the screen too small for me. I used to use Samsung Galaxy Note PRO 12.2. With my two-month experience using the IPP 12.9", the screen size is just about right.
Too bad no new release of Apple Pencil 2. Pencil loses power so quickly.
Surface tablets are comparable. Very powerful and fairly versatile. I just wanted to put that out there. However, my bias is hands down for the iPad Pro. I use it to read books, annotate books/PDFs, record lectures and create notes. Notability is a phenomenal small investment in that department. Also, I was a fan of the Smart Keyboard, but having switched to a clear back and Smart Cover, I don’t miss it at all. Typing on screen will suffice unless you’re hammering away a term paper.
I'll give you a differing opinion. Windows is excellent as a tablet OS, IMO it blows away iOS completely. It also has the power to also be a full desktop OS, allowing you to run ANY windows legacy program so you have zero compromises. Additionally it has many features which make using it easier such as the kickstand, the keyboard is best in class, you can use a mouse with it, etc etc. When it comes time to using the surface as a "dumb" tablet it excels as well, and can do everything an ipad can do, and so much more.
Just about the only advantage the ipads still have is battery life. Certainly this is a huge advantage and I don't want to downplay it. If battery life is important to you then you should definitely consider the ipad over the surface.
If you only plan to read and annotate research papers then as a surface owner I'd most likely steer you towards the ipad pro with the pen. I think the display is just a touch better, but also has truetone. But mainly I'd say because of battery life, you will most likely be able to annotate on battery for twice the time on an ipad. But depending on how you sit and where you position the ipad you may find it uncomfortable as it doesn't have the kickstand.
You can also use the full version of Adobe PDF programs on a surface, and Adobe has revamped them for touch support with large buttons and such. Works really well, although I have a continuing gripe with Adobe and how slow and stuttery PDF's scroll. But certainly there are tons of very good PDF apps on iOS as well.
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You and I must using very different versions of Windows on a tablet my friend. I have a Samsung Tab Pro S. I’m admittedly not a fan of Windows as a desktop OS but could cope if I had to use it. Strictly as a tablet however it’s a terrible experience. The iPad app ecosystem far exceeds Window’s—I’d choose to use nearly any iPad app counterpart to its Windows version when using it purely as a tablet. Navigation by touch on an iPad is far more fluid and apps are optimized for touch. I find trying to use desktop apps on a tablet clunky at best—far too few work well in this fashion.
Again, I’m strictly speaking about using it as a tablet—held in your hands and navigating solely by touch. If someone is looking to purchase a single device for all of their computing needs and tends to lean more towards the desktop/laptop, I’d suggest they consider a Surface Pro (but not rule out an iPP). Conversely, if they skew towards a tablet, I personally think the iPad is a much better experience.
Let me preface this by saying this is my own opinion, and not meant to disparage how you use and prefer your tablet. Both of our methods are valid simply because we each prefer them. I only mean to provide insight as to my thought process.
I much prefer windows programs to ios apps for many functions. I do find that in "dumb tablet" use Windows has all the bases covered such as music, videos, pictures, email, calendar, etc etc and don't find anything on iOS more compelling other than possibly personal preference. If anything Windows apps have very nice layers to them where you can do basis stuff, but can peel the layers back for more advanced function. If you want to even take it a step further you can go super advanced, but have to give up some touch functionality. For example, Windows email app is very robust and does everything a simple email app should do, you can peel some layers back and it does provide some more advanced functionality. You can also go to the other end of the spectrum and install Microsoft Outlook, which would provide the absolute most advanced functionality at the cost of touch ability. Although I've always wondered at the ability to touch through legacy windows programs and in my personal opinion feel that the difficulty is VERY overhyped. I suppose if you are checking your email one handed on a crowded moving subway train you might find a huge red stop and a huge green go button works well in your apps, but I've never been partial to this dumbification, but I don't use my tablet this way. Microsoft has gone a very long way to make many of its legacy apps touch friendly, the Office suite has been really revamped and you can opt for larger buttons in the ribbon. Adobe has revamped legacy programs like photoshop as well, as have many others.
Some time ago I challenged users on here to find me apps which are not represented on windows ecosystem, whether it's web apps, web pages, apps, or legacy programs. I didn't really get any answers. There are certain cases where user preference may skew one way or another, or the way a tablet is used (such as touch ability versus advanced features). But regardless of those user preferences the fact is that virtually everything iOS has in its ecosystem Windows can match it, and exceed it in many cases. I personally don't think that ecosystem argument has been valid for a few years now.
I also find navigation on a windows tablet much more elegant than iOS, once again just me. Many functions on an ipad are just glorified overblown iPhone features. Take the control panel as an example and the lack of customization, or ability to even shortcut to settings. Contrast that with Windows action center which lets you customize, right click to settings, and has very very good notification options, all at a swipe of the finger. Just one feature out of many I prefer on windows. Multi windows with snapping, oh the glory of snapping 4 windows at once. Resizing multiple windows. Multiple desktops. I could go on. You also can't beat how customizable Windows is. I have one app called TouchMe gesture studio that allows me to make custom gestures, so I can turn the volume up/down by putting 3 fingers on the screen and twisting either way, I can make my browser full screen by 3 finger swipe up and call my favorites with 3 finger swipe down, change brightness, etc etc. Don't even get me started on things like Fences, Stardock's Windowsblinds, Live tiles, how about Dynamic Themes? There are just way too many to list, but I suppose many prefer just a static grid of boring icons year after year.
But once again if we just compare "dumb tablet" features I don't see the advantage of iOS, except battery life. Anything else on Windows you should simply consider gravy, extra stuff you get that you can choose to completely ignore. But as I've posted before, I cannot downplay the HUGE importance of battery life and on that front the ipad trounces the surface tablets and is certainly a very valid reason to choose one if you can live within the limited iOS ecosystem.
Lastly, I don't want to leave out hardware features as making the surface a better tablet, markedly so IMO. The kickstand is phenomenal, so much that I wonder how other tablets exist without one. The ability to have a naked tablet and be able to prop it up in front of me to watch something, or prop it up to draw/write on are indispensable, as are using it in bed or on the go otherwise. And no, I don't consider the floppy POS that Apple sells as an addon anywhere near the functionality. I also prefer the surface keyboard over the ipad one, much better.
Once again, this is just how I use my tablet. The IPP is a very nice tablet, and one that has the HUGE advantage of much better battery life. I don't blame anyone for preferring it, I just get riled up when others say that Windows on a tablet isn't as good.
Very well stated and explained, as always. So much device usage is genuinely subjective. Best practice if possible is to take devices for a test drive to see if one’s own personal use case is a good fit.
I have to agree that Windows 10 is a decent enough tablet OS. But I also wouldn’t recommend Windows 10 to anyone at least right now. 1803 is showing me that Windows 10 is not becoming better with age, but somehow worse.
Windows 10 has two big updates a year. They’re typically named in a YYMM way. So the first update of 2018, compiled in March, gets called build 1803 (or the April Update).
I do agree with this. Prior to 1803 my windows experience was VERY smooth for the past 2-3 years. 1803 seems to have produced some issues here and there. I don't think it's much worse than, for example iOS 11 which has frustrated me as well. But yeah, Microsoft has to really put some time into polishing their latest releases.
I’d say the only difference is that Apple has apparently done a “quality initiative”, pushing back features. Maybe that’s another issue, I don’t think Microsoft is going to do that. They’re going to just throw up metrics that say X number of people updated and push on with whatever features they’re going to hope people use. I want to like Windows 10, I’m going to have to play support for it regardless so I might as well like it.
In my opinion, Windows really sucks on a tablet. People have tried to tell me otherwise, but I hate my 2-in-1 as a tablet and use it only as a laptop anymore. iOS is just leaps and bounds ahead in touch.
If you're looking for a productivity tool with keyboard/mouse support I'd suggest a chromebook over anything from Windows, unless you need to use specific programs unavailable elsewhere. For a pure tablet, I'd take an iPad any day and throw on a keyboard when necessary.
If you're looking for a productivity tool with keyboard/mouse support I'd suggest a chromebook over anything from Windows, unless you need to use specific programs unavailable elsewhere. For a pure tablet, I'd take an iPad any day and throw on a keyboard when necessary.
I like both but own an iPad Pro. To me the benefit of a Surface Pro (which IMO is pretty much the only Windows tablet worth considering) is the ability to run desktop software and also hook desktop peripherals to it easily. While the amount of touch optimized software for Win10 is pretty limited, I did not find it to be a deal breaker for my uses.
The iPad Pro and iOS is better for purely touch input and all software is designed to work with that concept. The 120 Hz screen is also a great feature as is Apple Pencil support. For me the main issue with the Pro is that you can't use it as a desktop replacement at least in the traditional sense. While it has replaced carrying a laptop with me for personal travel, I can't use one to do my work because I can't connect the devices needed nor run the software I need. For personal use it's perfectly fine when my needs are mostly just looking up stuff, maybe buying tickets etc while on holiday.
For OP I would still recommend the iPad Pro.
The iPad Pro and iOS is better for purely touch input and all software is designed to work with that concept. The 120 Hz screen is also a great feature as is Apple Pencil support. For me the main issue with the Pro is that you can't use it as a desktop replacement at least in the traditional sense. While it has replaced carrying a laptop with me for personal travel, I can't use one to do my work because I can't connect the devices needed nor run the software I need. For personal use it's perfectly fine when my needs are mostly just looking up stuff, maybe buying tickets etc while on holiday.
For OP I would still recommend the iPad Pro.
This.
Will the IPP/Surface be your only device or will you also have access to a laptop/desktop?
If you really want a tablet, get an iPad.
Majority of Surface Pro users use it as a laptop, not as a tablet. Even Microsoft always show ads with the keyboard attached at all times. I tried using my Surface Pro as a tablet full time (while waiting to buy the separately sold keyboard), and it is unusable. It’s windows, and sooner or later, you will be facing an application that is designed for desktop UI, and you will want a mouse/trackpad by that point.
Majority of Surface Pro users use it as a laptop, not as a tablet. Even Microsoft always show ads with the keyboard attached at all times. I tried using my Surface Pro as a tablet full time (while waiting to buy the separately sold keyboard), and it is unusable. It’s windows, and sooner or later, you will be facing an application that is designed for desktop UI, and you will want a mouse/trackpad by that point.
If you are purely into content consumption go for the iPad Pro. If you intend on content creation or getting serious work done, go for the Surface. That said, the display and the SOC on the iPad is better than the Surface. Once you see 120hz you never go back. It's that good. Also Windows isn't as fast as iOS in locking and unlocking.
I bought the Surface Pro and gave up. It was better than old Surface 2. I have 10.5 IPP and wish it's stylus was more like the Samsung Note 8. My Samsung S3 Tab is nice, will be looking at S4 in the fall. Again, Tab S3 stylus over IPP Pencil.
The IPP gets heavy to hold after 1-2 hours and S3 is lighter. Size of stylus (no battery to recharge) vs Pencil also.
I sometimes miss Surface Pro. Wishing my MacBook was more like it, I'd try to touch or pick up stylus, then remember.
The IPP gets heavy to hold after 1-2 hours and S3 is lighter. Size of stylus (no battery to recharge) vs Pencil also.
I sometimes miss Surface Pro. Wishing my MacBook was more like it, I'd try to touch or pick up stylus, then remember.
This. The Surface Pro offers the worst of both worlds, IMO. Because it runs a desktop OS, it has all of the maintenance issues of a desktop or laptop. Because it has a separate keyboard, it has the same limitations when using it in certain scenarios as a large tablet. Yes, the integrated kickstand helps a bit, but not completely. The lack of a quantity of quality touch-optimized software is a chronic condition that hasn't improved. Factor in Microsoft's track record of problems with the Surface Pro every generation from the current gen going back to the 1st gen, and it is not a very attractive option...IMO.
The Google Pixelbook would be a better alternative, depending upon one's needs.
I’ll second this sentiment, sort of. I’m a daily user on a 12.9” iPP—pretty much has replaced my laptop for day-to-day use. I also have been test driving a Pixelbook. While it’s likely going back, it's not for lack of quality or performance. The hardware is exquisite--terrific screen, solid build, best keyboard I've used. I just enjoy the synergies across the Apple ecosystem to much to switch away. And as a tablet, the Pixel is still clunky and awkward.
If I had to choose something other than my iPP though, it would easily be the Pixelbook vs. anything running Windows (and I do own a Samsung Tab Pro S). Really nice device.