Is 16inch M4 Pro really worth 750$ more than refurb M3 Pro?

[Canadia69]

I’m about to finally pull the plug and upgrade from my 15-inch 2019 MacBook Pro. I’m struggling to decide between two options:


- The new 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, 48GB of RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD. It costs $3780 CAD (student pricing).

Or

- The refurbished 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M3 Pro chip, 36GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. It costs $3020 CAD.


I’ll primarily use the laptop for work, where I’ll be using VPN sessions. However, I also do some web development (using Visual Studio, Node, and Angular) and recently started a personal project that annoyingly freezes up my current Mac when I run Docker and have one IntelliJ project open. (This is why I’m considering the 48GB RAM option.)

When I think about the faster M4 Pro chip, more RAM, brighter screen, Thunderbolt 5, and better battery life, I really want the M4 Pro. But is it really worth $750 CAD more? Which would you choose?

Also, I’m curious about the battery life and cycle count of the refurbished models. (Im buying it from the Apple website) Is the battery cycle count lower on refurbished models? Does it varies between different units?

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

[Chunk72]

I’m about to finally pull the plug and upgrade from my 15-inch 2019 MacBook Pro. I’m struggling to decide between two options:


- The new 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, 48GB of RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD. It costs $3780 CAD (student pricing).

Or

- The refurbished 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M3 Pro chip, 36GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. It costs $3020 CAD.


I’ll primarily use the laptop for work, where I’ll be using VPN sessions. However, I also do some web development (using Visual Studio, Node, and Angular) and recently started a personal project that annoyingly freezes up my current Mac when I run Docker and have one IntelliJ project open. (This is why I’m considering the 48GB RAM option.)

When I think about the faster M4 Pro chip, more RAM, brighter screen, Thunderbolt 5, and better battery life, I really want the M4 Pro. But is it really worth $750 CAD more? Which would you choose?

Also, I’m curious about the battery life and cycle count of the refurbished models. (Im buying it from the Apple website) Is the battery cycle count lower on refurbished models? Does it varies between different units?

Thanks in advance for your input!

I can’t answer which is best for you but items from the Apple refurb store are effectively brand new with 0 cycles and are the same as a regular purchase but in plain packaging.

I’m looking at getting a 14” m4 pro, 14/20 48GB 1TB myself

 

[Canadia69]

I can’t answer which is best for you but items from the Apple refurb store are effectively brand new with 0 cycles and are the same as a regular purchase but in plain packaging.

I’m looking at getting a 14” m4 pro, 14/20 48GB 1TB myself

but how can that be possible? Aren’t refurbs the units customer returned…hence having been used between 1 to 30days possibly ?

 

[leifp]

Personally, the M4 Pro model appeals to me on many fronts, but mainly it would be for Thunderbolt 5. The added RAM and faster CPU/GPU vs the M3 Pro would be a longer term benefit: if you’re going to replace this machine in 3 years, you might not notice much difference there but I’d guess it’ll become noticeable much sooner if you get the M3 version

Aside: are you including the taxes in your difference calculation? For myself, as an Ontarian, 13% makes a chunk of difference as well!

 

[smirking]

I’ll primarily use the laptop for work, where I’ll be using VPN sessions. However, I also do some web development (using Visual Studio, Node, and Angular) and recently started a personal project that annoyingly freezes up my current Mac when I run Docker and have one IntelliJ project open. (This is why I’m considering the 48GB RAM option.)

If it helps you better decide how to spend your money, I regularly have multiple IntelliJ projects open (sometimes with XCode also running) on my 16GB M1 Pro MBP with no issues. That's probably more to do with your being on a 2019 Intel Mac. I'm upgrading myself, but just to the 24GB M4 Pro model.

The only time IntelliJ ever slows down is when it's indexing a new project that's huge, but that's with any amount of RAM.

 

[Canadia69]

Personally, the M4 Pro model appeals to me on many fronts, but mainly it would be for Thunderbolt 5. The added RAM and faster CPU/GPU vs the M3 Pro would be a longer term benefit: if you’re going to replace this machine in 3 years, you might not notice much difference there but I’d guess it’ll become noticeable much sooner if you get the M3 version

Aside: are you including the taxes in your difference calculation? For myself, as an Ontarian, 13% makes a chunk of difference as well!

No i was not..3442$ vs 4309..that is quite a difference (14% in n QC)

 

[Canadia69]

If it helps you better decide how to spend your money, I regularly have multiple IntelliJ projects open (sometimes with XCode also running) on my 16GB M1 Pro MBP with no issues. That's probably more to do with your being on a 2019 Intel Mac. I'm upgrading myself, but just to the 24GB M4 Pro model.

The only time IntelliJ ever slows down is when it's indexing a new project that's huge, but that's with any amount of RAM.

Thats crazy, I was sure 16gb would never be suitable but it prob was just the CPU…especially now that I learned how macOS handles ram..36gb is def going to be more than enough

 

[smirking]

Thats crazy, I was sure 16gb would never be suitable but it prob was just the CPU…especially now that I learned how macOS handles ram..36gb is def going to be more than enough

The silicon chip macs do handle RAM differently. I hadn't planned to get a 16GB M1 originally, but I spent 2 weeks stuck on an original 8GB M1 MBP (the 8-core 13" one). I was dreading it, but it ended up being just fine. It did everything my 32GB 2018 MBP except run Windows at the same time.

Well, I DID actually manage to run Windows using Parallels with that 8GB M1, it was just that Windows was barely usable given only 2GB to work with. The Mac side on the other hand was still perfectly usable... ON 6GB! I was doing my usual Web development work with only 6GB at times.

People get nervous when they see yellow memory pressure, but in those 2 weeks, I was sometimes looking at red memory pressure and the machine just kept running. I'm sure it would have ran better if it had more RAM, but the point here is that whatever performance issues I had were not noticeable under normal usage. My normal usage includes living in InteliJ, having a couple of virtual web servers running, processing RAW photos in Capture One Pro, and all the usuals like Mail, Safari, and Firefox going as well.

When it came time to upgrade, I decided to extend the experiment and adopt 16GB as my daily driver. Same story. I might hit some occasional blips, but nothing that screamed "this is a bottleneck!"

 

[Canadia69]

The silicon chip macs do handle RAM differently. I hadn't planned to get a 16GB M1 originally, but I spent 2 weeks stuck on an original 8GB M1 MBP (the 8-core 13" one). I was dreading it, but it ended up being just fine. It did everything my 32GB 2018 MBP except run Windows at the same time.

Well, I DID actually manage to run Windows using Parallels with that 8GB M1, it was just that Windows was barely usable given only 2GB to work with. The Mac side on the other hand was still perfectly usable... ON 6GB! I was doing my usual Web development work with only 6GB at times.

People get nervous when they see yellow memory pressure, but in those 2 weeks, I was sometimes looking at red memory pressure and the machine just kept running. I'm sure it would have ran better if it had more RAM, but the point here is that whatever performance issues I had were not noticeable under normal usage. My normal usage includes living in InteliJ, having a couple of virtual web servers running, processing RAW photos in Capture One Pro, and all the usuals like Mail, Safari, and Firefox going as well.

When it came time to upgrade, I decided to extend the experiment and adopt 16GB as my daily driver. Same story. I might hit some occasional blips, but nothing that screamed "this is a bottleneck!"

I only learned about the Memeory Pressure thing today, I was used to alwasy seeing 14-15gb of my 16gb of ram used up thought I needed more but now Im thinking maybe 24gb is enough. I plan on keeping the mac for at least 4y like I did with my 2019, I wonder if 24gb will age well..its such a big purchase that a 300-400$ more is really making me hesitant

 

[smirking]

I only learned about the Memeory Pressure thing today, I was used to alwasy seeing 14-15gb of my 16gb of ram used up thought I needed more but now Im thinking maybe 24gb is enough. I plan on keeping the mac for at least 4y like I did with my 2019, I wonder if 24gb will age well..its such a big purchase that a 300-400$ more is really making me hesitant

The thing about Memory Pressure is that it's always going to confirm your worst anxieties. Firefox on my system beachballs on me once in a while so I look at my memory pressure. It's yellow! That's the culprit. Wait, but if I quit everything and use just Firefox, I'm still getting beachballs.

I can't say I absolutely know you'll be fine on just 24GB of RAM, but I can say from doing experiments on myself with a far lower spec Mac than I believe I needed that it's unlikely that the difference between 24GB and 36GB is going to be you having a brick or a working computer. Worst case scenario, is maybe you'll occasionally have to quit a few programs when you get to year 3 or 4 or an export takes 10% longer.

I'm assuming you're not doing anything like animation or professional video. That kind of thing definitely chews through resources. If we're just talking run of the mill developer work, you've got a lot of wiggle room.

 

[Canadia69]

The thing about Memory Pressure is that it's always going to confirm your worst anxieties. Firefox on my system beachballs on me once in a while so I look at my memory pressure. It's yellow! That's the culprit. Wait, but if I quit everything and use just Firefox, I'm still getting beachballs.

I can't say I absolutely know you'll be fine on just 24GB of RAM, but I can say from doing experiments on myself with a far lower spec Mac than I believe I needed that it's unlikely that the difference between 24GB and 36GB is going to be you having a brick or a working computer. Worst case scenario, is maybe you'll occasionally have to quit a few programs when you get to year 3 or 4 or an export takes 10% longer.

I'm assuming you're not doing anything like animation or professional video. That kind of thing definitely chews through resources. If we're just talking run of the mill developer work, you've got a lot of wiggle room.

No nothing doing animation or prof video editing, just dev stuff. And I juste checked, if I would get the 24gb 1tb option it would be 3275 instead of 3780.. a nice 500$ difference..hmm

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I’m about to finally pull the plug and upgrade from my 15-inch 2019 MacBook Pro. I’m struggling to decide between two options:


- The new 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, 48GB of RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD. It costs $3780 CAD (student pricing).

Or

- The refurbished 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M3 Pro chip, 36GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. It costs $3020 CAD.


I’ll primarily use the laptop for work, where I’ll be using VPN sessions. However, I also do some web development (using Visual Studio, Node, and Angular) and recently started a personal project that annoyingly freezes up my current Mac when I run Docker and have one IntelliJ project open. (This is why I’m considering the 48GB RAM option.)

When I think about the faster M4 Pro chip, more RAM, brighter screen, Thunderbolt 5, and better battery life, I really want the M4 Pro. But is it really worth $750 CAD more? Which would you choose?

Also, I’m curious about the battery life and cycle count of the refurbished models. (Im buying it from the Apple website) Is the battery cycle count lower on refurbished models? Does it varies between different units?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Between those two choices the M4 48 GB RAM box is far preferable. More RAM allows for a smoother workflow moving forward in time; in particular if you multi-task among apps. RAM is not simply about an app working, because the Mac OS will make anything work, just sub-optimally.

 

[EnderTW]

Agreed, go for at least 24gb, but optimally 48gb. You have to also remember this is a shared memory resource between the gpu and cpu. The m3 pro still is beating out the latest second gen intel and ryzen ai chips, the m4 is just leap and bounds better.

I personally would go for the M4 just because of the nano texture, but nonetheless, both devices will work for your use case.

 

[Canadia69]

Will go for the M4 Pro 48gb. Was planning on ordering today because of i thought the black friday free gift promo included macbook pros but they just apply on the airs :/ … since its not urgent, i think ill wait till boxing day see if theres a sale. Especially considering delivery date slipped to dec 10th and i wont really need it during the holidays.

Thx for all ur inputs

 

[UnifiedMelody]

I feel like even if "apple upgrades ram these days" with the introduction of their hyped apple intelligence it will just eat more ram,

48-64GB seems to be the 'sweet spot' for a business professional [or more if you know what you're doing]... at least in my view, i came from 64GB windows Ram and only used 36GB max. But given with Mac's unified structure can'[t assume oh less memory is the same as this on windows.

As its unified its a share resource not a 'individual thing on its own' so if the ram does run out due to limited capacity itll swap and touch the SSD which is not something you want to have it happen consistently as any write on ssd for no reason due to shortage of memory will decrease its lifespan a bit.

 

[smirking]

I feel like even if "apple upgrades ram these days" with the introduction of their hyped apple intelligence it will just eat more ram,

Apple Intelligence is running on phones. It's actually offloading some stuff to OpenAI. Macs are going to run quite well on the base level of RAM for everyday computing and beyond for the foreseeable future. People just have RAM anxiety.

If you've got the cash, sure spend whatever you want to have peace of mind, but the vast majority of people here really have no idea how much RAM is really necessary for what they're doing. They only know that they need MORE and then even more.

Some of the most hardcore developers I've met ran circles around me with 8GB Macbook Airs. Most people's assumptions about RAM is based in anxiety that will never be soothed.

With some exceptions for truly resource intensive stuff, having a RAM deficit isn't the death knell it used to be. Maybe it runs a little slower, but most people wouldn't even notice.

 

[daneoni]

M3 pro is still head and shoulders above a 2019 MBP and 36GB of RAM is plenty. If Apple Intelligence can run on 8GB of RAM then you're fine. If you want to save money, buy the M3 Pro and use the difference for Applecare or software you need.

If you don't upgrade often which is sounds like you don't then go for the most mac you can afford at your time of purchase i.e. M4 Pro and know you wont need a new Mac for 5yrs.

but how can that be possible? Aren’t refurbs the units customer returned…hence having been used between 1 to 30days possibly ?

Each refurb from Apple gets a new case and battery by default. And if there was a fault the part gets replaced too.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

but how can that be possible? Aren’t refurbs the units customer returned…hence having been used between 1 to 30days possibly ?

Not all refurbs are customer returns. Some were found with issues at the factory and had to be reworked to make it ready for sale. Since these didn’t come off the assembly line correctly the first time, they must be sold as refurbs.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I bought an M3 Pro Max refurb with 64 GB Ram / 1 TB and it cost less than the 48 GB versions - like over $US200 less. But it was silver, not black. After I bought it there were still some for sale.

But I returned it and paid more for a 10% discounted Max. It only had 48 GB RAM, and it cost me an extra 12%. But for me the Thunderbolt was worth it. There is a very big jump in performance between the M3 Pro and the M4 Pro. In fact for many speed tests except for multi-thread GPU, the M4 Pro is faster than the M4 Pro binned Max. If you might need a bigger drive for doing things, Thunderbolt 5 opens up fast and much cheaper drive space. IMO the sweet spot in the M4 is the Pro version. In Australia though there were no discounted M4 Pro models available except for 512MB versions, and 1 TB is the minimum I could handle.

The RAM itself is worth $200, so the upgrade cost is $560. While the bright screen sounds good, there are apps to brighten the M3's screen as it's been dulled down evidently (so I have read anyway). So really the difference is the speed increase which is something like one third faster. It has some vector hardware differences too (I am not up with that but the M3 handled vectors but the M4 should handle them or some of them way way better than the M3 Pro. Finally there is the thunderbolt benefit.

On a test I did with the M3 Max (which is much closer to an M4 Max than the M3 Pro is to the M4 Pro) with 64 GB RAM, I was surprised by how much virtualising was going on with a video resolution app I tested. So if you run out of RAM, these Macs are very willing to virtualise memory, and that slows things and also wears out drives. So 48 is much better than 36 IMO.

$560/3020 = 18.5% extra. Or ignoring the value of the extra RAM, $760/3020 = 25% extra.

If the speed increase is not a benefit, and the internal drive will serve you well for some time - the M3 is a safer bet. Otherwise go the M4 and keep your phone for a few more years than you planned.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

I bought an M3 Pro Max refurb with 64 GB Ram / 1 TB and it cost less than the 48 GB versions - like over $US200 less. But it was silver, not black. After I bought it there were still some for sale.

But I returned it and paid more for a 10% discounted Max. It only had 48 GB RAM, and it cost me an extra 12%. But for me the Thunderbolt was worth it. There is a very big jump in performance between the M3 Pro and the M4 Pro. In fact for many speed tests except for multi-thread GPU, the M4 Pro is faster than the M4 Pro binned Max. If you might need a bigger drive for doing things, Thunderbolt 5 opens up fast and much cheaper drive space. IMO the sweet spot in the M4 is the Pro version. In Australia though there were no discounted M4 Pro models available except for 512MB versions, and 1 TB is the minimum I could handle.

The RAM itself is worth $200, so the upgrade cost is $560. While the bright screen sounds good, there are apps to brighten the M3's screen as it's been dulled down evidently (so I have read anyway). So really the difference is the speed increase which is something like one third faster. It has some vector hardware differences too (I am not up with that but the M3 handled vectors but the M4 should handle them or some of them way way better than the M3 Pro. Finally there is the thunderbolt benefit.

On a test I did with the M3 Max (which is much closer to an M4 Max than the M3 Pro is to the M4 Pro) with 64 GB RAM, I was surprised by how much virtualising was going on with a video resolution app I tested. So if you run out of RAM, these Macs are very willing to virtualise memory, and that slows things and also wears out drives. So 48 is much better than 36 IMO.

$560/3020 = 18.5% extra. Or ignoring the value of the extra RAM, $760/3020 = 25% extra.

If the speed increase is not a benefit, and the internal drive will serve you well for some time - the M3 is a safer bet. Otherwise go the M4 and keep your phone for a few more years than you planned.

what actually made you return the m3 max 64/1tb thought that was a bargain you picked
im contemplating a m4 max 64/1tb with nanotexture because i do bring mine out a lot and the nanotexture in the apple store seem reasonable considering how many distracting lights there were in the store [good test scene]

or would 48GB be enough for me?! Just gonna run Davinci Resolve, maybe FCP, Photoshop, LR and affinity/safari [lots of webs]... i have external drives so dont need to upgrade plus TB5 seems like a bonus if i do need the speed but a TB4 drive/enclosure diy should also suffice

 

[throAU]

- The new 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, 48GB of RAM, upgraded to 1TB SSD. It costs $3780 CAD (student pricing).

Or

- The refurbished 16-inch MacBook Pro with the M3 Pro chip, 36GB of RAM, and a 1TB SSD. It costs $3020 CAD.

Those two spec to me, I'm considering:

• 16 GB more RAM
• 1 year extra OS support time-frame
• Pro vs. Pro the M4 generation is significantly faster in both CPU and GPU, and better NPU
• Assuming you're planning to own the thing for 3 years or more, it's what... ~250/yr over 3 years (or $5/week) to have the nicer, more capable machine for 3 years.

I'd go for the M4 Pro, no question.

assuming of course, both are in budget, but imho if you're capable of stumping the cash for $3k, $3700 isn't a massive stretch, just save a little longer if you have to - but hopefully more likely you have money in the bank that this is discretionary spending and won't send you into financial stress.

If either machine will put you in financial stress, don't buy, and consider something cheaper, like an M1 Max.

 

[throAU]

Apple Intelligence is running on phones. It's actually offloading some stuff to OpenAI. Macs are going to run quite well on the base level of RAM for everyday computing and beyond for the foreseeable future. People just have RAM anxiety.

It really depends on whether you're just planning on using base apple intelligence, or other AI features in desktop class apps.

 

[Melbourne Park]

what actually made you return the m3 max 64/1tb thought that was a bargain you picked
im contemplating a m4 max 64/1tb with nanotexture because i do bring mine out a lot and the nanotexture in the apple store seem reasonable considering how many distracting lights there were in the store [good test scene]

or would 48GB be enough for me?! Just gonna run Davinci Resolve, maybe FCP, Photoshop, LR and affinity/safari [lots of webs]... i have external drives so dont need to upgrade plus TB5 seems like a bonus if i do need the speed but a TB4 drive/enclosure diy should also suffice

It was a bargain, but there was another one I missed out on that had more ram and a bigger drive and was 10% more again! When JB HiFi - an Australian seller of phones, notebooks and some other things - had a 10% discount on the Max, I bought that - but from Apple via a price match. They had the same sale last year and I never saw it repeated - normally their 10% sales are on low spec. The price last year was the same as this year's Max 1TB/48 - but last year the same price with 10% off got one a 1TB/32 GB binned M3 Max. So prices have really come down for these Macs. But Apple are restricting the RAM on the M4 Pros. For many though the extra cost of 64 GB RAM and the hit on the Max doesn't make sense. So I just grabbed the base Max on discount thinking it was now or never. I can always return it, I now doubt I will though.

The appeal was a faster clock rate, better processing for neural with video upgrading, and the Thunderbolt. I would have bought a Pro, but the discounted ones with 48 GB only had 612MB drives - which is ludicrously small. But it seems its going to be some time for Thunderbolt 5 to get work as I envisaged - so a miscalculation for me there. Instead I think I'll get a T-3 PCI box and keep the RAID card from my Mac Po 5,1. That will save me quite a bit and also from the minimal reviews I've checked it seems the T-5 port handles T-3 connections better than T-4 or T-3 ports on Macs. I have no idea why ...

However the Max has surprised me, it feels a lot different to the M3 Max. The keyboard feels different, the screen is much much better (and I did not get the low reflection because that wasn't a special price) its extremely quick sort of instance, I thought for little more cost I would have a mature form factor with a long life.

I've been putting up with the Mac Pro and using a 15.4" quad Thunderbolt 4 notebook and earlier this year I gave up on the upgrade hassles of trying to keep an old Mac Pro going. Its still a terrific bullet proof computer but software and OS upgrades have finally killed it. Its a great computer and I am surprised how it much better it feels compared to the M3 Max, and really it should feel much the same.

 

[throAU]

Also, I’m curious about the battery life and cycle count of the refurbished models. (Im buying it from the Apple website) Is the battery cycle count lower on refurbished models? Does it varies between different units?

Pretty sure apple refurbs include a brand new battery as part of the "refurbishment"

 

[familychoice]

Pretty sure apple refurbs include a brand new battery as part of the "refurbishment"

They do with iOS devices, haven’t seen that confirmed for laptops though (UK refurb store).