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When I said "you can't see it, why do you pretend you can?" I wasn't talking about any difference between 4K and 1440p. I was talking about not being able to read easily the tiny font of 4K on a small enough monitor for your eyes, to make you need to enlarge them.

I stand by what I said in my previous post.
True. And most systems, at least Windows and MacOS in my testing, will scale font area upward so that characters appear as the same size just much sharper since the character is rendered with more pixels.

You can change the scaling so that the characters are rendered with the same amount of pixels as a 1440 monitor, but if you do that you end up with the tiny font issues you mention.
 
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When I said "you can't see it, why do you pretend you can?" I wasn't talking about any difference between 4K and 1440p. I was talking about not being able to read easily the tiny font of 4K on a small enough monitor for your eyes, to make you need to enlarge them.

That makes zero sense.

Preferring larger text and UI doesn’t negate the need for sharpness.
 
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When I said "you can't see it, why do you pretend you can?" I wasn't talking about any difference between 4K and 1440p. I was talking about not being able to read easily the tiny font of 4K on a small enough monitor for your eyes, to make you need to enlarge them.

I stand by what I said in my previous post.
I read it again, it still reads the way I saw it before. I’m running a 27“ 4K at looks like 1440p instead of the 27” 1440p monitor I already had. You mentioned not understanding people running at a lower resolution, as they should just get a lower resolution. That is what I am doing. I get everything the same size, but sharper. That is why I do it.
 
Yes, 4K looks better in monitors which are 27" and above.
On my dell s2817q running in native 4K becomes too small to read so I have to scale down. What monitor size would be needed to run in 4K fully with no scaling and stil be able to read?
 
On my dell s2817q running in native 4K becomes too small to read so I have to scale down. What monitor size would be needed to run in 4K fully with no scaling and stil be able to read?
Sarah, I would guess something like a 32" at a minimum to read comfortably. The poster above cited a 40" as looking good - and some are using 48" OLED TVs as monitors - but the problem with physically larger monitors is, depending on the distance you may be sitting from it, you may have to physically rotate your head to see different parts of the screen. That could be uncomfortable. This is not generally a problem with TVs because you sit at the appropriate distance for a given size and resolution for passive viewing. But we sit closer to computer monitors because we are actively interacting with it with mice, keyboards, track pads etc., and so you run up against practical size limitations for closer viewing. Maybe not an issue with gaming but other tasks probably ergonomically unsound.
 
Sarah, I would guess something like a 32" at a minimum to read comfortably. The poster above cited a 40" as looking good - and some are using 48" OLED TVs as monitors - but the problem with physically larger monitors is, depending on the distance you may be sitting from it, you may have to physically rotate your head to see different parts of the screen. That could be uncomfortable. This is not generally a problem with TVs because you sit at the appropriate distance for a given size and resolution for passive viewing. But we sit closer to computer monitors because we are actively interacting with it with mice, keyboards, track pads etc., and so you run up against practical size limitations for closer viewing. Maybe not an issue with gaming but other tasks probably ergonomically unsound.
Yes you’re right. No massive difference between a 28 to 32 inch though?
 
On my dell s2817q running in native 4K becomes too small to read so I have to scale down. What monitor size would be needed to run in 4K fully with no scaling and stil be able to read?

I do not understand why you want to avoid scaling. It is scaling that makes the UI sharp, crisp and readable.

If you go to display preferences and hold down the option key while clicking the "Scaled" radio button and then check "Show all resolutions" it will be easier to understand what is going on.

On my 5K iMac the native resolution is 5120x2880. Choosing this resolution will make the interface elements and text too small, I believe most people will agree. Scaling the interface up to (looks like) 2560x1440 increases the size to 200%, which I believe is the default, making everything readable and crisp for anyone with normal eyesight sitting a normal distance from the screen. The monitor is still showing 5120x2880 pixels.

Choosing "2560x1440 (low resolution)" actually changes the resolution the display signal is outputting. This makes the interface elelements the same size as in 200% scaling, but everything is blurry and jagged.
 
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I do not understand why you want to avoid scaling. It is scaling that makes the UI sharp, crisp and readable.
Because if you're not scaling by an even number (e.g. doubling the number of pixels as in the example you gave) it can both put an extra load on the GPU (affecting UI performance) and make the display less readable at certain resolutions.
 
Because if you're not scaling by an even number (e.g. doubling the number of pixels as in the example you gave) it can both put an extra load on the GPU (affecting UI performance) and make the display less readable at certain resolutions.

Of course 200% is preferable, but up until last month Apple shipped laptops with default scaling of about 170% and hardly anyone complained, so it’s obviously not a huge issue.
 
What monitor size would be needed to run in 4K fully with no scaling and stil be able to read?
If you're going for about 110 ppi (same as a 27" "4K" scaled to 2560×1440), then 40" is a good size. However, it depends on your eyesight and viewing distance so there's no "one size fits all" answer. I can run "4K" on 23.8" (185 ppi) with no scaling and am still able to read everything, for instance.

Yes you’re right. No massive difference between a 28 to 32 inch though?
We're talking 157 vs. 138 ppi. It does make a difference depending on eyesight and viewing distance but it's not "massive".

but up until last month Apple shipped laptops with default scaling of about 170% and hardly anyone complained, so it’s obviously not a huge issue.
Did people not complain because they didn't care/mind/notice, or because they didn't know? :)
 
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Based on these comments I am wondering why one should ever get a 4K 27" monitor. Perhaps for photography/video?
27" is the sweet spot for me. Anything larger and I feel like I'm moving my eyes or head around too much. So I end up pushing the monitor back. Then have to adjust the resolution with my poor eyesight which pretty much negates the advantages of having a larger monitor.
 
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27" is the sweet spot for me. Anything larger and I feel like I'm moving my eyes or head around too much. So I end up pushing the monitor back. Then have to adjust the resolution with my poor eyesight which pretty much negates the advantages of having a larger monitor.
I agree with azentropy. I tried out a Dell 32" U3219Q and a Dell 27" U2720Q for a while and found that the 27" was better all around for me. The 32" required too much head movement and I always had that 'sitting in the movie theater front row' feeling when using it. The 27" has a slightly higher PPI, colors were clearer and brighter and the scaled resolution works great. I like the 'looks like 2560 x 1440' setting -- comfortable UI element sizes and plenty of real estate to utilize. The Dell U2720Q is a fabulous monitor in quality and features, USB-C, HDMI and DP connections and the size is ideal for a desktop setting. I run two of them through a CalDigit TS3+ dock at 4K, 60hZ with no issues.
 
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I read it again, it still reads the way I saw it before. I’m running a 27“ 4K at looks like 1440p instead of the 27” 1440p monitor I already had. You mentioned not understanding people running at a lower resolution, as they should just get a lower resolution. That is what I am doing. I get everything the same size, but sharper. That is why I do it.
The other thing to remember is that the graphics are also rendered with more pixels so everything graphical (icons, control elements, window margins) are sharper. This is so much easier on the eyes
 
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