Is anyone else sick of sales people?

[radiogoober]

Hi all,

Is anyone else sick of sales people?

The ones that I'm most sick of are real estate agents. They have a ridiculous job that requires minimal training, and then they get 5-6% of the sales price of a house. (Yes, I know the commission is split between the seller and buyer agents, and then they only receive a part of that commission because their broker takes half or perhaps less.)

My wife and I are looking at buying a house. Given the price range we are looking at, the commission is absolutely insane for the amount of work that the real estate agent would be doing. Obviously we are going to finance the majority of the house, so in essence I will be financing the real estate agents' salaries for the next 30 years. Screw that. We have actually not made any offers because of this ridiculous distribution of funds. It's driving us towards buying a lot and then building a custom home.

I've also felt that real estate agent commissions are a major factor that is driving housing prices up. We looked at one house that sold for X dollars in 2009. They now want X + Y dollars for the house, and when you do the math, it's exactly the amount that the real estate agents will take from the sell price. Given the short time the previous owners owned the house, they probably have almost zero equity in the house, so they cannot negotiate any on the price, and the price is now artificially inflated because of the real estate agents' commissions.

So, when I look at it practically, the house sold in 2009 for (I'm making these numbers up) $140 per square foot, and the house now has 3 extra years of wear (it's pretty beat up, all things considered), but it's listed to sell for $150 a square foot! So the house is in worse condition, but priced higher, all because the seller has to make up the cost of the real estate commission, otherwise he would sell the house and still owe money on it!

In fact, I've seen this with many houses that we've looked at. The sellers have to ask for more money than the house is worth because they need to break even. And these houses sit on the market for a very long time.

And what exactly do listing agents, and buyers agents do? They put you on the MLS. The MLS is how the vast majority of houses are found by potential buyers. I've never just been interetsed in a house that an agent sent me, because they send garbage houses saying they are nice because they just want to sell something. It's rather ridiculous there isn't open access to the MLS. I sure hope some competing service comes out that is similar to MLS but is open. If that happens, it'd be great to see either the commissions of these agents plummet considerably or at least more competition so it's easier to get your house out there without having to inappropriate drive the price of a house up.

I'm sure this post is going to piss off some people, especially real estate agents, but I'm not sorry. I just think that the commissions are too high and that your easy job is unneccessarily driving up the price of houses. I simply refuse to finance your salary over the next 30 years.

Another sales person I can't stand is car salesmen. I do all my research on the internet. I know exactly what car I want and what features I want. If I find a used car on eBay, I've already read every feature and know every detail of it. All I need to do is test drive it. I don't need your scummy lines, or your ridiculous attempts at pressuring me into buying something. And I certainlly don't need to pay you a big commission just because you happened to be the person who I talked to after I already did all my research about a car I may buy. Just give me a machine to swipe my debit card and save me the however many hundred dollars you got for that purchase.

I'm just sick of being fleeced for so much money off of people with unnecessary and, frankly, simple jobs.

 

[renewed]

Then do it yourself. You don't have to have a real estate agent to buy a home.

Find a home, get proof of lending, call the listing agent, negotiate yourself, get your own inspection, check for easements, check for back taxes, get your own title company, etc...

And just to give you a heads up on car salesmen, if you already know what you want 9 times out of 10 they will let you test drive it then buy it. It's easy for them because they don't have to persuade you. Also, a BMW salesman makes an average of $120 on a $105,000 6-series. Pretty ****** commission if you ask me.

 

[Tilpots]

Obviously you've never heard of the term "negotiation.". Salespeople love you the most. Just whip out that credit card and slide it. Easy money.

 

[ender land]

Good thing the Internet was invented and you can find "for sale by owner" about 100x than it would have been 15 years ago.

 

[senseless]

I don't see salespeople as the enemy. Sure, they get a few points off the top, but they may buy something from your company and keep you working. Ignorant, dishonest salespeople are useless, but I try to choose who I do business with carefully. As far as real estate goes, I wouldn't have a clue what to do without a salesperson advising me.

 

[184550]

Then do it yourself. You don't have to have a real estate agent to buy a home.

Find a home, get proof of lending, call the listing agent, negotiate yourself, get your own inspection, check for easements, check for back taxes, get your own title company, etc...

And just to give you a heads up on car salesmen, if you already know what you want 9 times out of 10 they will let you test drive it then buy it. It's easy for them because they don't have to persuade you. Also, a BMW salesman makes an average of $120 on a $105,000 6-series. Pretty ****** commission if you ask me.

Exactly.

OP, dare I ask your profession?

 

[rockyroad55]

Then do it yourself. You don't have to have a real estate agent to buy a home.

Find a home, get proof of lending, call the listing agent, negotiate yourself, get your own inspection, check for easements, check for back taxes, get your own title company, etc...

And just to give you a heads up on car salesmen, if you already know what you want 9 times out of 10 they will let you test drive it then buy it. It's easy for them because they don't have to persuade you. Also, a BMW salesman makes an average of $120 on a $105,000 6-series. Pretty ****** commission if you ask me.

Nailed it.

 

[radiogoober]

Then do it yourself. You don't have to have a real estate agent to buy a home.

Find a home, get proof of lending, call the listing agent, negotiate yourself, get your own inspection, check for easements, check for back taxes, get your own title company, etc...

And just to give you a heads up on car salesmen, if you already know what you want 9 times out of 10 they will let you test drive it then buy it. It's easy for them because they don't have to persuade you. Also, a BMW salesman makes an average of $120 on a $105,000 6-series. Pretty ****** commission if you ask me.

You still have to deal with the listing agent. If I want to purchase your home, and you have a real estate agent, then your agent still gets the commission, and in fact would get the full commission instead of splitting it with buyer's agent. You see, we would both be getting screwed in the deal. You have to overprice your house (which makes it more difficult to sell) because you don't want to lose money on it, and I have to pay many, many tens of thousands of dollars extra because the agent gets such a big commission.

The only way I know to avoid this is to build a house. I still have to buy a lot -- and pay commission to the listing agent -- but then I'm at least paying a contractor to organize and control the build of a quality house.

----------

Obviously you've never heard of the term "negotiation.". Salespeople love you the most. Just whip out that credit card and slide it. Easy money.

I don't know why you would write this. Of course I am aware of negotiating. I always have all my numbers before hand, and then I send the wife in.

----------

I don't see salespeople as the enemy. Sure, they get a few points off the top, but they may buy something from your company and keep you working. Ignorant, dishonest salespeople are useless, but I try to choose who I do business with carefully. As far as real estate goes, I wouldn't have a clue what to do without a salesperson advising me.

There is an inherent problem with that: if you don't have a clue what you're doing, how will you know if the real estate agent is being honest? One house we looked at, I was told that it's not worth making an offer below the listing price, because the builder wants all the houses in that area selling for at least $136/sq ft, and they told us that the house next door had just sold. Interestingly, that house that supposedly sold is still for sale. It was never, ever under contract. Complete lie.

----------

Exactly.

OP, dare I ask your profession?

ER doc.

 

[wvuwhat]

Hi all,

Is anyone else sick of sales people?

The ones that I'm most sick of are real estate agents. They have a ridiculous job that requires minimal training, and then they get 5-6% of the sales price of a house. (Yes, I know the commission is split between the seller and buyer agents, and then they only receive a part of that commission because their broker takes half or perhaps less.)

My wife and I are looking at buying a house. Given the price range we are looking at, the commission is absolutely insane for the amount of work that the real estate agent would be doing. Obviously we are going to finance the majority of the house, so in essence I will be financing the real estate agents' salaries for the next 30 years. Screw that. We have actually not made any offers because of this ridiculous distribution of funds. It's driving us towards buying a lot and then building a custom home.

I've also felt that real estate agent commissions are a major factor that is driving housing prices up. We looked at one house that sold for X dollars in 2009. They now want X + Y dollars for the house, and when you do the math, it's exactly the amount that the real estate agents will take from the sell price. Given the short time the previous owners owned the house, they probably have almost zero equity in the house, so they cannot negotiate any on the price, and the price is now artificially inflated because of the real estate agents' commissions.

So, when I look at it practically, the house sold in 2009 for (I'm making these numbers up) $140 per square foot, and the house now has 3 extra years of wear (it's pretty beat up, all things considered), but it's listed to sell for $150 a square foot! So the house is in worse condition, but priced higher, all because the seller has to make up the cost of the real estate commission, otherwise he would sell the house and still owe money on it!

In fact, I've seen this with many houses that we've looked at. The sellers have to ask for more money than the house is worth because they need to break even. And these houses sit on the market for a very long time.

And what exactly do listing agents, and buyers agents do? They put you on the MLS. The MLS is how the vast majority of houses are found by potential buyers. I've never just been interetsed in a house that an agent sent me, because they send garbage houses saying they are nice because they just want to sell something. It's rather ridiculous there isn't open access to the MLS. I sure hope some competing service comes out that is similar to MLS but is open. If that happens, it'd be great to see either the commissions of these agents plummet considerably or at least more competition so it's easier to get your house out there without having to inappropriate drive the price of a house up.

I'm sure this post is going to piss off some people, especially real estate agents, but I'm not sorry. I just think that the commissions are too high and that your easy job is unneccessarily driving up the price of houses. I simply refuse to finance your salary over the next 30 years.

Another sales person I can't stand is car salesmen. I do all my research on the internet. I know exactly what car I want and what features I want. If I find a used car on eBay, I've already read every feature and know every detail of it. All I need to do is test drive it. I don't need your scummy lines, or your ridiculous attempts at pressuring me into buying something. And I certainlly don't need to pay you a big commission just because you happened to be the person who I talked to after I already did all my research about a car I may buy. Just give me a machine to swipe my debit card and save me the however many hundred dollars you got for that purchase.

I'm just sick of being fleeced for so much money off of people with unnecessary and, frankly, simple jobs.

You do realize that the housing market is ever changing. While, I don't like real estate agents, it's not usually them setting the price. It's all about what people will pay. And, buyers were very scarce in 2009.

----------

And, why is my mom's house that she bought for 90K in 1985 worth over 400K now? Real estate agents are a necessary evil.

 

[dukebound85]

Hi all,

Is anyone else sick of sales people?

The ones that I'm most sick of are real estate agents. They have a ridiculous job that requires minimal training, and then they get 5-6% of the sales price of a house. (Yes, I know the commission is split between the seller and buyer agents, and then they only receive a part of that commission because their broker takes half or perhaps less.)

Sorry, that is just flat out incorrect

 

[radiogoober]

You do realize that the housing market is ever changing. While, I don't like real estate agents, it's not usually them setting the price. It's all about what people will pay. And, buyers were very scarce in 2009.

----------

And, why is my mom's house that she bought for 90K in 1985 worth over 400K now? Real estate agents are a necessary evil.

I agree that it's not them that sets the prices, but I do believe their too-big commission drives up the prices of houses. It is probably worse when the house has been owned for less than 5 years.

 

[wvuwhat]

I agree that it's not them that sets the prices, but I do believe their too-big commission drives up the prices of houses.

Everyone has to make a living. I know full well when I go out to eat that I'm overpaying for my food, but it's a lot more convenient than cooking at home.

 

[wordoflife]

I don't hate them - they make things easier.

 

[Svend]

Another thing you are missing. How many houses does that real estate agent show to people that do not buy? They may make a decent commission on *actual* sales, but they spend a lot of time showing without selling anything.

 

[aristobrat]

I sold my last house FSBO and then turned around and bought my current house FSBO. It wasn't rocket science difficult, but it wasn't easy, and it took a significant amount of personal time researching the specifics of the process, marketing the property (listing it online, other than Craigslist isn't always cheap), dealing with interested buyers who don't know the basics about buying a house/financing, etc. There were so many things that fell under "etc" that I won't do a FSBO sale again, unless I'm in dire straits.

 

[radiogoober]

Another thing you are missing. How many houses does that real estate agent show to people that do not buy? They may make a decent commission on *actual* sales, but they spend a lot of time showing without selling anything.

I'm not missing anything. I understand exactly how the process works.

----------

 

[Tilpots]

OP, you're an ER doc complaining about pricing for services rendered? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

That's awesome! Thanks. You're about to buy nearly a million dollar house and you think people are ripping you off. Good one, sir. Well played.

 

[gabbiemazing]

I know I am.

 

[radiogoober]

OP, you're an ER doc complaining about pricing for services rendered? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

That's awesome! Thanks. You're about to buy nearly a million dollar house and you think people are ripping you off. Good one, sir. Well played.

First of all, I'm not buying a million dollar house.

But I'd love to understand more about your point of view. Are you implying that because I underwent almost 10 years of education and training after college, in which I racked up tons of debt and, as a resident, was the lowest paid person in the hospital (including janitors, if you look at my hours worked vs salary), and that because I now earn a reasonable income that I deserve to be ripped off, or that I should not mind being extorted for ridiciculous fees?

 

[Tilpots]

First of all, I'm not buying a million dollar house.

You suggested a $50k commission, typically a 6% fee. From your statement, you are well educated, the rest of the equation I leave to you.

But I'd love to understand more about your point of view. Are you implying that because I underwent almost 10 years of education and training after college, in which I racked up tons of debt and, as a resident, was the lowest paid person in the hospital (including janitors, if you look at my hours worked vs salary), and that because I now earn a reasonable income that I deserve to be ripped off, or that I should not mind being extorted for ridiciculous fees?

The former.

 

[McGiord]

Using a real state agent is a convenience for many people in the real state market= buyers, sellers, attorneys, real state agents, staging contractors, inspectors, etc.

You are free to do whatever you want about buying a house.

As a buyer, you are supposed to be dealing with the "nice side" of the real state agents, as they are supposed to help you get the house you want, they will always aim for getting a good commission out of the transaction, that is supposed to be paid by the seller of the house.

Just keep your parameters clear, the house price you are willing to pay (that includes their commission) and the house features that you are looking for, it will never be the perfect house unless you are considering building it to your specs or making modifications afterwards.

But you have to be realistic, put yourself in the position of the seller and you will understand some of the reasons why a real state agent could be needed.

The way I see it is that I will not put my house and family at risk by exposing them to anyone looking to "buy" a house, but I prefer some professional services to minimize the risks and time for selling the property.

As with any profession there are good, bad and in between professionals out there.

As someone who also prefer to pay for certain services, the real state transactions are something I prefer to pay someone to do for me.

Why you think you will be paying the real state agent for the next 30 years? They get their money right after the closing costs and the sale materializes, right?

Real state agents are like insurance agents to medical care.
The american way of business = make money out of someone else's money.

 

[GoreVidal]

and that because I now earn a reasonable income that I deserve to be ripped off, or that I should not mind being extorted for ridiciculous fees?

Apparently you've never been on the receiving end of the American "health care" system.

 

[balamw]

They have a ridiculous job that requires minimal training

Then do it yourself.

For another twist on this, if the training required is that minimal why not have yourself or your wife get the training and thus pocket the buyers portion of the commission? Instant ~3% discount.

FWIW my last house sold itself in 1 day above listing price (we had to get out of there and priced it appropriately), but we had negotiated with the listing agent to cap the commission at 5% 2% for her agency and 3% for the buyers one. Every deal is different.

B

 

[einmusiker]

In my eyes sales is nothing but complete manipulation and utterly unnecessary in the modern world. I'd say it's another form of oppression in fact. This world should be evolved enough to give everyone the choice of what they need/want and with a little education and research there should be no need to be "sold" something.

 

[radiogoober]

For another twist on this, if the training required is that minimal why not have yourself or your wife get the training and thus pocket the buyers portion of the commission? Instant ~3% discount.

FWIW my last house sold itself in 1 day above listing price (we had to get out of there and priced it appropriately), but we had negotiated with the listing agent to cap the commission at 5% 2% for her agency and 3% for the buyers one. Every deal is different.

B

Actually, I have considered doing just that. The course is rather short, and is only a couple of nights a week, and it finishes off with an easy test. The fee was around $500. Definitely worth it for even a single house purchase.

Thank you for the idea about negotiating the commission.

----------

In my eyes sales is nothing but complete manipulation and utterly unnecessary in the modern world. I'd say it's another form of oppression in fact. This world should be evolved enough to give everyone the choice of what they need/want and with a little education and research there should be no need to be "sold" something.

Yup I agree. I went looking at some of the new vehicles that are out at the different dealerships today. After writing this thread, you can imagine the feelings I had as I watched the sales people skulk over to try to talk to me. I would pull into the dealership, and drive to the vehicle I wanted to see, then hop out, look, and hop back in my car. Everytime they caught up to me and wanted to start trying to "sell" me on a vehicle. Ugh.