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Is anyone here experienced at using MacOS Pages to write a novel?

S

Sill

macrumors 6502a
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How do you Pages experts that write novels set up your formatting and layout?

What values are you using for line spacing, headers/footers/margins, before/after paragraph, etc. How about font choices for serious fiction? I chose Publico Roman in a 12pt size, looks pretty good.

I tried using Apple's "Edgy Novel" template and it works pretty good but I'm having some trouble.

I had an inspiration last week, so I sat down and fired up MacOS Pages. About 100 pages into it I realized that I had no page numbers. So I tried adding them. Apple's documentation is pretty poor. I followed it and was able to change the body of the novel into a section, which I applied page numbers to, but then I found that everything before my new section ALSO had their own page numbers.
I tried to delete them (select, hit delete), and that wrecked the page numbering on the section where I wanted page numbers. I'd really just like to have page numbering start with the page I call "chapter one", but that doesn't seem to want to work. Apple's support docs talk about it but I haven't found the instructions.
 
My suggestion is to check with your publisher, as @Mr_Brightside_@ alludes. At the very least, they’ll give you details answering your questions on what works best for them to integrate your manuscript into a printed work. I would imagine they also have templates for use in various tools like Publisher, Scrivener, maybe Pages, etc.

If you are self-publishing, go with the software requirements of the service you’re using.

Beyond all that, consider an online or even in-classroom course in Pages, sometimes offered by a local community college.

I know few published authors but the two who I do know both use Pages but just dictate their novels into it. Then they go back and make very basic corrections and simple, simple, simple formatting. They then copyright their work, send off to their respective publishers, and final edits are done by the publishers editing teams. Neither worries much about things like page numbers, fonts, sections, etc., and only minimally about chapters.
 
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Just make sure you have set styles for paragraphs and such. Later you can change the styles without having to go back and edit the source.
 
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bogdanw said:
Are you referring to
"Add page numbers in Pages on Mac" https://support.apple.com/guide/pages/add-page-numbers-tan5387422b5/mac
"Pages User Guide for Mac" https://support.apple.com/guide/pages/welcome/mac
Click to expand...


That's the articles I used.



Mr_Brightside_@ said:
I'm sure a publisher would do this for you.
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I'm going to attempt self-publishing on this.

neutrino17 said:
Just make sure you have set styles for paragraphs and such. Later you can change the styles without having to go back and edit the source.
Click to expand...

Thats actually part of my original post - how are folks setting their Pages up for novel writing?

For example, I've been writing using the Edgy Novel template. It looks good. But I copied some text from an outside source into my document for editing, and it looked different, even though I had the source converted to my chosen font and size. I finally found the different: Edgy novel uses a Line Spacing of 1.2, with Before Paragraph set at 8pt, and After Paragraph set at 0pt. My pasted material was Line Spacing 1, Before Paragraph 0pt, After Paragraph 8pt. Both look excellent, but I have to pick one. Or, I may use the Edgy spacing for my novel body, and the pasted spacing for my historical context flashbacks.

It's all fun experimenting with this stuff, but it throw a pothole in the road that I have to slow down and drive around if I want to get to my ambitious destination.
 
SalisburySam said:
My suggestion is to check with your publisher, as @Mr_Brightside_@ alludes. At the very least, they’ll give you details answering your questions on what works best for them to integrate your manuscript into a printed work. I would imagine they also have templates for use in various tools like Publisher, Scrivener, maybe Pages, etc.
Click to expand...

I've heard of Scrivener, but never tried it. I used to use an excellent shareware tool called "Jer's Novel Writer". I had a few books started in that, but work required me to take a break. When I came back to it a few years later, "Jer" had discontinued the program and it no longer functioned. I had to open the Jer files in TextEdit and pull out all of my work, unformatted, and then paste it into Pages for formatting. Fortunately Pages had turned into a relatively robust program that helped me immensely.

SalisburySam said:
If you are self-publishing, go with the software requirements of the service you’re using.

Beyond all that, consider an online or even in-classroom course in Pages, sometimes offered by a local community college.

I know few published authors but the two who I do know both use Pages but just dictate their novels into it. Then they go back and make very basic corrections and simple, simple, simple formatting. They then copyright their work, send off to their respective publishers, and final edits are done by the publishers editing teams. Neither worries much about things like page numbers, fonts, sections, etc., and only minimally about chapters.
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that Pages could accept dictation, thats interesting. I really wouldn't want to listen to the sound of my own voice for as long as it would take me to finish a 100k word novel, though, and it would probably aggravate my wife to no end. 😀

I wish I could get by with "simple formatting" but I'm the guy who can't change spark plugs in his car without cleaning out the garage. I can't work in my lab at home without straightening it up and throwing out a bunch of things. So likewise, when I write I have to have good formatting. It helps me to write a novel if I can see it go down on the page and look like a novel. I have Parts, Chapters, and locations and dates to break things up into an orderly flow. Using Pages, Edgy Novel, I can put a cover on the thing, dedications, legal stuff, introductions, etc. When I feel like I'm writing a novel, I actually write a novel. Otherwise, it just looks like the output from a high school writing assignment, with all the attendant "I don't know what to write!" feeling that evokes.

BTW, little things like putting the right cover picture in place helps me immensely. I guess I'm a "visual writer".

I'll go search for some Pages tutorials/classes. If you know of a particularly helpful one please let me know.
 
Sill said:
For example, I've been writing using the Edgy Novel template. It looks good. But I copied some text from an outside source into my document for editing, and it looked different, even though I had the source converted to my chosen font and size. I finally found the different: Edgy novel uses a Line Spacing of 1.2, with Before Paragraph set at 8pt, and After Paragraph set at 0pt. My pasted material was Line Spacing 1, Before Paragraph 0pt, After Paragraph 8pt. Both look excellent, but I have to pick one. Or, I may use the Edgy spacing for my novel body, and the pasted spacing for my historical context flashbacks.
Click to expand...

You can remove the formatting from a clipboard entry by pasting it into a plain-text window. Then do a Select-All and Copy, and boom, it's on the clipboard as plain text. You can then paste that into Pages and the formatting of wherever it's pasted should apply.

There's also a way to do this using command-line tools, i.e. Terminal shell commands. The two commands are 'pbpaste' and 'pbcopy'. Connect them together in a pipeline, and the plain text on the clipboard comes out of 'pbpaste' and goes into 'pbcopy'.

The exact Terminal / shell command-line is:
Code: 
pbpaste | pbcopy
Put that into a tiny Automator application. When you run it, it will strip the formatting from text on the clipboard. If there's non-text on the clipboard, it will empty the clipboard.

It can also be placed into the Services menu (if that's still around), and attached to a keyboard shortcut.
 
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to start writing I use IAwriter, the simplest writing program without any bells or whistles. I create writing in it and thats the sole purpose.
I then, when I start working on drafts of the entire thing, move all I have written to Scrivener. Scrivener is the most brilliant program to structure, edit, move around your writing. It is great for different versions, different drafts, because you can make snapshots of one draft before you start writing the next.
For me the only downside of scrivener is that it has such a steep learning curve. Because the program does so much, in so may different ways, you need a couple of sessions going over instruction video's. Which really is not one of my favorite hobbies, but really pays off in the end.

but ultimately, the only thing that really matters in my opinion is the first thing that hits the page. That's what everything is built upon.
 
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I think I must be using a very different version of MacOS (Ventura 13.7.8) and/or Pages (14.1) than either of you.

chown33 said:
You can remove the formatting from a clipboard entry by pasting it into a plain-text window. Then do a Select-All and Copy, and boom, it's on the clipboard as plain text. You can then paste that into Pages and the formatting of wherever it's pasted should apply.
Click to expand...

That won't work if I'm pasting from black background/ white text into a white background / black text document in Pages. The formatting of the text stays the same too.

p33t3r said:
You can also use the shortcut shift-command-V instead of just command-V to paste unformatted text. I use it all the time for stuff that I copy from webpages or pdfs.
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If I use that command in Pages it brings up a File Manager window that wants me to select a file to insert.
 
I found the right shortcut: Copy and Paste Text in Pages on Mac

​

Oddly, Apple put the keyboard shortcut in the document but they didn't put the shortcut in for for a stripped format paste, instead telling us to use the menu for Edit > Paste, which still doesn't do it. But pulling down the Edit Menu shows Paste and Paste and Match Style, which has the correct shortcut next to it.
 
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Sill said:
I've heard of Scrivener, but never tried it.
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Most of the authors I have any kind of personal contact with use either WordStar (via DOSBox, or the macOS-native clone WordTsar) or the excellent Ulysses. You might want to have a look at Ulysses yourself if you're bored.
 
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it wasnt me said:
Most of the authors I have any kind of personal contact with use either WordStar (via DOSBox, or the macOS-native clone WordTsar) or the excellent Ulysses. You might want to have a look at Ulysses yourself if you're bored.
Click to expand...


Ulysses looked interesting. Then I saw this:

"Ulysses does not offer WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) styles and formats like Microsoft Word. Instead, your text will be automatically formatted once you export it as a PDF, web page, or ebook."

🙁

Based on the reviews I see I'm sure it's a good tool, but for me If I paid for Ulysses I'd be paying them to prevent me from finishing anything. In my own experience, without WYSIWYG I could get my story idea, my character sheet, and a rough outline done, followed by perhaps a couple of pages completed. Thats where it would stay.

Give me a program that at least looks like it's formatted as a published book and I'll be able to get my story done. In the past 2 weeks I've written over 35,000 words across two different stories, using Pages. I personally can't do that with text editing kinds of programs.
 
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To be fair, Pages won't give you WYSIWYG either, it will rather give you WYSKRWYMG (What You See Kinda Resembles What You Might Get). I understand that (and why) you might not like Ulysses because of that though.
 
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Sill said:
Ulysses looked interesting. Then I saw this:

"Ulysses does not offer WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) styles and formats like Microsoft Word. Instead, your text will be automatically formatted once you export it as a PDF, web page, or ebook." of programs.
Click to expand...
Since you're self publishing, formatting on export is actually what you ultimately will have to do, because the output will vary by printed book, ebook type, etc. Even with printed books you may need to change the page size depending on costs, particular publisher needs, etc. This is where Ulysses and Scrivener really shine.

I understand what you're saying about needing to see the design as you develop... I'm similar myself. But over time I found, especially with a novel, it's good to separate the two since the writing needs to stand on its own (i.e. the writing will get better without presentation). To each their own, though, of course...

I personally used Scrivner to write a novel. It's an amazing program and the output is really nice for sending to different publishing formats. But it is very complex and any time I am away from it I feel like I have to relearn things. If I did it again, I think I would use something simple like IAwriter, and then import it into Scrivener or Ulysses for final design.

Also you are probably going to want to feed it through some kind of AI editor if you don't have a human editor (it's well worth doing). Having unformatted clean text is going to make that a lot easier.

Happy writing!
 
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I’ve used Pages to write several nonfiction books. For self-publishing, check Amazon’s instructions for ebooks - I know Pages can export in ebook format but I seem to remember there were some specifics Amazon required which were a bit tricky.

If you’re going to use a publisher, to send in a proposal you can write in Pages, then export to PDF and attach the PDF for their consideration. However, if they accept it, most of them will send you files with edit tracking in Word. ,
 
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Sill said:
I'd really just like to have page numbering start with the page I call "chapter one", but that doesn't seem to want to work. Apple's support docs talk about it but I haven't found the instructions.
Click to expand...
There are a few things you need to check to make this work the way you want.

First, make sure the part where you want the page numbers to begin is its own section. It sounds like you've done this successfully.

Second, make sure you have turned on Headers or Footers depending on where you want to put your page numbers. Clicking in the footer, for example, will give you a button to insert page numbers

Third, in the sidebar under Document > Section, uncheck "Match previous section" for Headers and Footers while you are in your chapter section. This will allow you to delete the page numbers from the earlier sections.

Fourth, if needed, in the sidebar under Document > Section you can choose what number you want your numbering to start at under Page Numbering.


That should get you to the point where you can have your page numbers start the way you want at chapter one.
 
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No idea if it suits your purposes but Affinity suite has the old Affintiy Publisher bundled in along with Affinity Photo, etc. Free so might be worth a look.
 
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