Is Apple going too far in it's quest for thin computers?

[Evangelion]

PowerBook is a quite thin computer. Just 1 inch. And when Apple released MBP, they makde it even thinner: they shaved 1mm off of it. Am I the only one who feels that they shouldn't have done that?

Let's face it, 1mm is peanuts. No-one is going to notice it, unless you compare them side-by-side. And we all know that Apple is having some issues with MBP as it is. It runs hot, the GPU is underclocked, and only 17" model has dual-layer burner. Now, making the internals even more cramped by making the machine even thinner, doesn't exactly help in the heat-department. And the underclocking is an indication of that. I also heard that the missing dual-layer burner is because of the thinner enclosure.

So, instead if giving us an enclosure that is tiny amount thinner, they could have given us a computer that runs a but cooler and has a dual-layer burner. By making the machie tiny bit more sexy, they sacrificed on actual functionality.

 

[dsnort]

I would never want to see Apple join the Dell, HP, or IBM thick and chunky club, but the first business of any computer has to be usability.

 

[aristobrat]

So your supposition is that had Apple made the MacBook Pro 1MM thicker, it would have been cooler, could have held a dual-layer drive, and the GPU wouldn't have been underclocked?

That's a whole lot of expectation to lay on a single millimeter, no?

As I understood it, the only reason the 17" got the dual-layer was because there was more horizontal space (i.e. the trackpad wasn't sitting on top of part of the optical drive). As for heat, with the recent SMC Firmware update for the MacBook, Apple proved that by properly running the fans, they can significantly reduce how hot the case gets. I wouldn't be surprised to see a second MacBook Pro SMC Firmware update out in the near future to address that.

 

[Evangelion]

So your supposition is that had Apple made the MacBook Pro 1MM thicker, it would have been cooler, could have held a dual-layer drive, and the GPU wouldn't have been underclocked?

That's a whole lot of expectation to lay on a single millimeter, no?

I have herd reports that the reason why it doesn't have DL-burner, is because of the thinness. Didn't PowerBooks have a DL-burner?

And no, I'm not saying they should start producing fat laptops like Dell does. PowerBook was very thin, MBP is just tiny bit thinner. I for one feel that they could have kept the case just as thick as PB was, if they could have crammed the missing functionality there.

As for heat, with the recent SMC Firmware update for the MacBook, Apple proved that by properly running the fans, they can significantly reduce how hot the case gets. I wouldn't be surprised to see a second MacBook Pro SMC Firmware update out in the near future to address that.

The firmware-update does not fix the issue of uderclocked GPU. And didn't it fix the heat by running the fans constantly?

 

[freakonguitar]

for the notebooks, no i think that thin is excellent! Who wants a big huge chunky notebook when on the go. Thats what a notebook is for, portability. As for desktops, the mini is nice, but i wouldn't mind seeing something bigger , cube sized that would allow users to actually put in a 3.5" hdd and be able to upgrade things and use a tray loading drive which goes twice as fast. I agree desktops should look appealing, but for me, they need to be powerful enough. A simple in between imac an mac pro using conroe would have worked for me, and conroe is CHEAP! but, nope they don't have it, so instead i ended up spending more money and getting a base model mac pro!

 

[aristobrat]

I have herd reports that the reason why it doesn't have DL-burner, is because of the thinness. Didn't PowerBooks have a DL-burner?

PowerBooks have a less-wide trackpad that doesn't sit on top of the optical drive (which means they could fit a taller dual-layer drive in there).

And no, I'm not saying they should start producing fat laptops like Dell does. PowerBook was very thin, MBP is just tiny bit thinner. I for one feel that they could have kept the case just as thick as PB was, if they could have crammed the missing functionality there.

My point is that you're just guessing that they could magically fit a dual-layer drive (and correct the other two issues) by making the case 1MM larger. To me that doesn't sound likely, but hey, I'm just guessing too.

The firmware-update does not fix the issue of uderclocked GPU. And didn't it fix the heat by running the fans constantly?

I don't know if the fans are running constantly. With normal usage, I can't hear them, I don't notice huge quantities of air being blown from my MacBook, and the battery life hasn't gone down any, so ... I don't know. If I peg the CPU at 100% for a few minutes, I can definately hear them as they ramp up to full speed, but when the CPU is normal, I hear nothing.

And since we're both just guessing, do you have any idea of what the impact on the battery life would be by clocking the GPU back up to normal?

 

[vv-tim]

And since we're both just guessing, do you have any idea of what the impact on the battery life would be by clocking the GPU back up to normal?

If the heat generated is any indication... I'd say it would impact the battery life quite a bit.

 

[crazycat]

I like thin laptops but i would rather have a larger desktop which had better colling and worked better then a smaller one which overheated and did not work as well.

 

[PDE]

I think Apple is going too far. the MBP 15" is a good example of it. It's not just the heat situation and downgrading of the DVD drive from the previous powerbooks, but also the very limited screen tilt that was forced about by the quest to make it thinner. The displays on the macbooks actually touch the desk when you tilt back the display, scratching them in the process. Maybe it's the display mechanism that needs to be reconsidered? Still, I think thinness should only be pursued if it doesn't force other compromises in function. Apple seems to be focusing too much on form and too little on function these days.

 

[~Shard~]

Until Apple machines are so flat they are two-dimensional, I won't be happy.

 

[Mackilroy]

I think Apple is going too far. the MBP 15" is a good example of it. It's not just the heat situation and downgrading of the DVD drive from the previous powerbooks, but also the very limited screen tilt that was forced about by the quest to make it thinner. The displays on the macbooks actually touch the desk when you tilt back the display, scratching them in the process. Maybe it's the display mechanism that needs to be reconsidered? Still, I think thinness should only be pursued if it doesn't force other compromises in function. Apple seems to be focusing too much on form and too little on function these days.

If I tilt my MacBook display back, no matter how far I push it it never touches the desk. You sure yours is?

 

[bbrosemer]

Stop complaing in 2 weeks there will be 15'' Merom DL dvd burner MBP's and new Mini's and updated iMac's just wait till paris ...

 

[aristobrat]

Stop complaing in 2 weeks there will be 15'' Merom DL dvd burner MBP's and new Mini's and updated iMac's just wait till paris ...

You heard it here first, folks.

 

[poppe]

I think apple thought, hmm we can have a sweet ass looking thin laptop or we can put DL in, which really how many people acctually use? 1 out of 10?

DL is nice but 15 bucks for 5 CDs? 25 for $25 if you find a good sale.

I love knowing that my MBP 17" is thinner when its closed than my Girlfriends Dell 1505 when its open.

That said. I think this is as thin as they should go until technology increases. Like using those new seagate HD's that could work for the ipod, or using flash drives, but that would help more in weight than size i suppose.

for the notebooks, no i think that thin is excellent! Who wants a big huge chunky notebook when on the go. Thats what a notebook is for, portability. As for desktops, the mini is nice, but i wouldn't mind seeing something bigger , cube sized that would allow users to actually put in a 3.5" hdd and be able to upgrade things and use a tray loading drive which goes twice as fast. I agree desktops should look appealing, but for me, they need to be powerful enough. A simple in between imac an mac pro using conroe would have worked for me, and conroe is CHEAP! but, nope they don't have it, so instead i ended up spending more money and getting a base model mac pro!

No way the way of the future is not thin. Its the new acer 20.1 inch laptop. Went in to CompUSA to see the new MacPro. and i'm walking by and I say look at that nice monitor with a camera built in... Why does the keyboard have a trackpad? Oh my!! its a 240 GB HDD, 20.1 inch laptop. Now thats portable!!!

 

[Gurutech]

If the temp of my Macbook Pro can be reduced atleast 10 degree celsius by keeping Powerbook's thickness, I'd sacrifice that much thickness for cooler laptop.

Obviously, too thick does not look good, but too thin while making laptop too hot is engineering disaster.

When I use Divx converter to encode the video clips in divx codec, and use some program to convert WMA to mp3 concurrently, my CPU temp reached 91 degree celsius.
Man.. this thingy is not a laptop..

 

[PlaceofDis]

okay so you state that one mm isn't that big of a difference and no one will notice. likely true.
then you state that if the area of the MBP wasn't reduced that mm then it would run cooler.
if its such a small difference one mm won't make the 'book run any cooler. trust me.

 

[Gurutech]

okay so you state that one mm isn't that big of a difference and no one will notice. likely true.
then you state that if the area of the MBP wasn't reduced that mm then it would run cooler.
if its such a small difference one mm won't make the 'book run any cooler. trust me.

The powerbook was way cooler,
Besides, powerbooks have openings on left, and right, but Macbook Pro doesn't. While it's so thin, there's only one opening which is also mostly blocked by the hinge.
This is not that good decision in terms of thermal management.
You can say whatever you'd like to, but still the macbook pro is too hot to be laptop. That's a fact.
And I never stated that one mm thickness will reduce the overall temp. I said "if then" statement.
My argument is based on the assumption that one mm can increase effectiveness of thermal management. I don't really care if that's true or not, but Powerbook was way cooler, and that's the fact.
Obviously, if you compare the powerbrick of Powerbook and Macbook Pro, you can easily see that MBP consumes more power. Thus it's so obvious that MBP produces more heat. yet Apple decided to shirink its size and implemented not so effective thermal management system.
To me, they gone too far.

 

[poppe]

The powerbook was way cooler,
Besides, powerbooks have openings on left, and right, but Macbook Pro doesn't. While it's so thin, there's only one opening which is also mostly blocked by the hinge.
This is not that good decision in terms of thermal management.
You can say whatever you'd like to, but still the macbook pro is too hot to be laptop. That's a fact.
And I never stated that one mm thickness will reduce the overall temp. I said "if then" statement.
My argument is based on the assumption that one mm can increase effectiveness of thermal management. I don't really care if that's true or not, but Powerbook was way cooler, and that's the fact.
Obviously, if you compare the powerbrick of Powerbook and Macbook Pro, you can easily see that MBP consumes more power. Thus it's so obvious that MBP produces more heat. yet Apple decided to shirink its size and implemented not so effective thermal management system.
To me, they gone too far.

Thats all good and what not, but the Powerbook had a PPC chip so to say that they are the same thing and that one MM in design would just suddenly make it cooler is moot. Plus its not one processor vs one different processor, no its on processor vs. a nother processor with two cores...

On the regards to the Powerbook design, my thought is that the new MBP was rushed out to get it all down and out with. It had been forever since a powerbook had seen a revision and Apple was feeling the heat for not having an upgrade. So Apple rushed out (my thought) a new MBP. This could be the reason there is such a problem with heat. Perhaps by Santa Rosa we'll see a new design and heat won't be so harsh...

 

[Gurutech]

Thats all good and what not, but the Powerbook had a PPC chip so to say that they are the same thing and that one MM in design would just suddenly make it cooler is moot. Plus its not one processor vs one different processor, no its on processor vs. a nother processor with two cores...

On the regards to the Powerbook design, my thought is that the new MBP was rushed out to get it all down and out with. It had been forever since a powerbook had seen a revision and Apple was feeling the heat for not having an upgrade. So Apple rushed out (my thought) a new MBP. This could be the reason there is such a problem with heat. Perhaps by Santa Rosa we'll see a new design and heat won't be so harsh...

Yes my assumption probably is.
But considering increase in powerbrick, Apple already knew that new MBP is gonna produce more heat. It's common sense. Yet, without any "newer revolutionary thermal design" , they then decide to reduce the openings, reduce the overall thickness, and placed all three chips (CPU, GPU, and chipset) in one heat pipe.

I totally agree on Apple rushing to get MBP out.
They made many stupid mistakes.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I can't wait for the day where laptops are under a centimeter thick. A laptop the size and thickness of a bog standard writing pad would be a dream come true.

As for a DL burner, well I don't think I've ever burnt a dual layer DVD with any of my DL burners. In fact the number of disks I burn these days are down to an absolute minimum what with firewire cables, external hard drives, usb memory sticks, fast internet and of course iPods.

 

[Temujin]

If the means of reaching a certain thickness is to downgrade (PB = DL 8x Superdrive, MBP = 4x Superdrive) then Apple has gone a bit too far. 1.0 inch or 1.2 inches who gives a c***

 

[killr_b]

I love knowing that my MBP 17" is thinner when its closed than my Girlfriends Dell 1505 when its open.

Classic.

Now, onto the thin.
Thin is good. And thinner is better.

The GPU is NOT underclocked. And by saying so you make yourself look... uninformed. The 17" has a variable GPU speed. And all graphics cards are clocked to whatever "optimal" is to the company using them. You'd be more correct saying that all GPU's are underclocked. And for that matter almost all CPU's are too. They can run way freakin' faster than they are. What did they get on that IBM test at some negative temp? Like, 5 Ghz? Whatever, you see the point. You want more speed, you need loud @$$ fans and other useless crap that- takes up space!

The DVD drive isn't DL? So. I don't know anyone personally who has burned a DL disc... maybe it's just us... but I doubt it. Laptops are just toys.

 

[freakonguitar]

No way the way of the future is not thin. Its the new acer 20.1 inch laptop. Went in to CompUSA to see the new MacPro. and i'm walking by and I say look at that nice monitor with a camera built in... Why does the keyboard have a trackpad? Oh my!! its a 240 GB HDD, 20.1 inch laptop. Now thats portable!!!

Thats not portable! its a BEAST! sorry to say, but i would rather have some notebook that weighs under 7lbs with a 17" screen than a 20" screen but the notebook is MASSIVE and weights like 15 lbs! thats a freaking desktop man! the imac weights like 15 lbs if you forget the heavy metal base!. If its a desktop i don't care about how thin it is, i want expandibility and for it to run cool, if its a notebook, slim and light is WAY better! I cannot see myself carrying around a notebook that big. it just defeats the portable purpose like that beast by dell where it folds up into a portable. its just ugly and some sort of sad competitoin for an imac except one that can go places, but costs 3000 bucks.

 

[poppe]

Thats not portable! its a BEAST! sorry to say, but i would rather have some notebook that weighs under 7lbs with a 17" screen than a 20" screen but the notebook is MASSIVE and weights like 15 lbs! thats a freaking desktop man! the imac weights like 15 lbs if you forget the heavy metal base!. If its a desktop i don't care about how thin it is, i want expandibility and for it to run cool, if its a notebook, slim and light is WAY better! I cannot see myself carrying around a notebook that big. it just defeats the portable purpose like that beast by dell where it folds up into a portable. its just ugly and some sort of sad competitoin for an imac except one that can go places, but costs 3000 bucks.

Right on

 

[Silentwave]

Thats not portable! its a BEAST! sorry to say, but i would rather have some notebook that weighs under 7lbs with a 17" screen than a 20" screen but the notebook is MASSIVE and weights like 15 lbs! thats a freaking desktop man! the imac weights like 15 lbs if you forget the heavy metal base!. If its a desktop i don't care about how thin it is, i want expandibility and for it to run cool, if its a notebook, slim and light is WAY better! I cannot see myself carrying around a notebook that big. it just defeats the portable purpose like that beast by dell where it folds up into a portable. its just ugly and some sort of sad competitoin for an imac except one that can go places, but costs 3000 bucks.

The said Acer 20.1" laptop is 17.2 pounds, not 15

and that doesn't include the 135W power adapter

All that stuff though and the 17" MBP has identical screen resolution.....