Is Apple neglecting Macs?

skaertus

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 23, 2009
3,351
462
Brazil
I am becoming seriously disappointed at Apple. Apple is focusing too much on iOS fancy devices, and neglecting Macs. Sometimes I feel that Apple updates the Mac lines just because it has to. I know that the iPhone and the iPad are hugely profitable, and that they sell like hot cakes, while Macs don't. But then Apple's business is not Macs anymore, and we shouldn't be worried in buying these highly-priced computers.

I see Apple spending a lot of money and effort on iOS devices. Apple is working 24-7 to fix Maps for iOS 6. But I don't see Apple so committed in developing Macs. Simply because it is not. Apple is charging a fortune for every Mac -- but it is not spending a fortune in making Macs better. Here are some examples:

1. The last time Apple redesigned a Mac line was in late-2010, when it released the 11 and 13-inch MacBook Airs. The MacBook Pro got a redesign in mid-2012, but only the higher-end 15-inch model was revamped, and its price went sky high. All other Macs remain very much the same. Apple, however, redesigned its whole line of iOS devices (iPad, iPhone and iPod) in 2012. The last redesigns were in 2010. Apple is clearly not very interested in redesigning Macs as much as it redesigns iPads and iPhones.

2. Apple has already held four events in 2012, and three of them were focused on iOS devices: (i) the iBooks for iPad event in January; (ii) the new iPad and Apple TV event in March; and (iii) the iPhone 5 event in September. Apple announced the refreshed MacBook Pro/Air lines during the WWDC in June, which also presented OS X Mountain Lion and iOS 6 -- so it was not exclusive for Macs.

3. The iMac and the Mac Mini don't get an update (not even a small spec bump) in more than one year. The Mac Pro doesn't get a substantial update in more than two years. There was a time when Apple redesigned the iMac every year and a half/two years. Now the iMac is struggling to get an update in this timeframe.

4. The iPad has a screen resolution higher than all MacBooks (except for the expensive 15-inch model with the retina display), despite costing half of the price.

5. Apple doesn't update iWork for OS X in almost four years. However, the iOS version of iWork was released and got substantial updates in this timeframe.

6. iPhone 5 is, according to Phil Schiller, "the most beautiful" product Apple has ever made. The MacBook Pro with a retina display is just "the most beautiful" computer that Apple has ever made, according to Schiller. The iPhone is the flagship product. There's a clear path here.

Should we conclude that the future for Apple are these touch-devices aimed at dummies who don't like computers and keep posting on and checking Facebook and Twitter instead of doing real work? Meanwhile, as much as you may hate Microsoft, it is really making an effort on Windows 8 and Office 2013. Is Apple slowly killing the Mac?
 

vpro

macrumors 65816
Jun 8, 2012
1,192
64
I really - really enjoy this thread!

Thank you for starting this thread, I was beginning to wonder if anyone else felt this way who could put it into better English than I could. I feel as a MacBook Pro user (being a musician) that I have been neglected, because all the fad consumers are getting what they want and then some, while I wait and wait for a super refresh that never came. I don't buy into Macs to have to replace them ever 6 months, I work these workhorses now for over 8 years. They are not failing any time soon but they are in real need for a refresh! Longevity is really stylish and sexy to me I don't know why?!
 

justperry

macrumors G4
Aug 10, 2007
10,494
5,915
I'm a rolling stone.
The thing is, these computers are already fast enough for most of the people, it is unlike 10 years ago when a computer was outdated as soon as you left the store.
New processors are released 1 year apart, Graphic cards get faster but not so fast as 10 years ago.
SSD's and RAM makes computers much faster than mechanical mediums.
Yes, they still can get faster but for most people 10-30% a year is not enough to update their computers on a yearly or 2 year bases.
Nowadays it's more about making them more power efficient than making them much faster, most people buy Laptops for their portability and are more than fast enough, people want longer battery life and less weight.
iPads seem to be more than enough for many people, if you only need browsing and email it's sufficient.
 

davidhunternyc

macrumors member
Dec 26, 2011
84
16
I love the OP! I totally concur with it too. I am sick and tired of hearing about the latest iPhone 15S. What about great computers? What about a 17" MacBook Pro with Retina display and built-in Apple TV? What about a computer designed with Liquid Metal? What about a computer wafer thin with 2TB of memory and a built-in CD drive (yes, with legacy technology)? I mean, come on Apple, give us something new.
 

seong

macrumors 65816
Feb 11, 2010
1,031
28
Lol, and here I was thinking that the new retina display MacBook Pro was an obvious winner for Apple's Mac line up.
With iOS 6 and iCloud, one can say that Apple will keep on upgrading MacBook lines ASAP. Remember how long it took for Macs to get USB 3? Well, people were complaining back then, but ever since I got my hands on it, I don't use USB 3 at all. Weird, eh?
 

skaertus

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 23, 2009
3,351
462
Brazil
Thank you for starting this thread, I was beginning to wonder if anyone else felt this way who could put it into better English than I could. I feel as a MacBook Pro user (being a musician) that I have been neglected, because all the fad consumers are getting what they want and then some, while I wait and wait for a super refresh that never came. I don't buy into Macs to have to replace them ever 6 months, I work these workhorses now for over 8 years. They are not failing any time soon but they are in real need for a refresh! Longevity is really stylish and sexy to me I don't know why?!
Thank you! Good to know somebody enjoyed the thread.
 

skaertus

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 23, 2009
3,351
462
Brazil
The thing is, these computers are already fast enough for most of the people, it is unlike 10 years ago when a computer was outdated as soon as you left the store.
New processors are released 1 year apart, Graphic cards get faster but not so fast as 10 years ago.
But Apple is not even updating the processors when they come out. iMac still uses Sandy Bridge processors. It's an expensive computer and, although it is already fast enough for most people, these people may also buy a PC which is fast enough for much less. If I am willing to pay a price premium to get a Mac, I also want a premium product. And Apple is not delivering it.


SSD's and RAM makes computers much faster than mechanical mediums.
I agree. But then again, why does Apple still sells the iMac, the Mac Mini and most of the MacBook Pro line with slow HDs instead of SSDs?

Yes, they still can get faster but for most people 10-30% a year is not enough to update their computers on a yearly or 2 year bases.
Nowadays it's more about making them more power efficient than making them much faster, most people buy Laptops for their portability and are more than fast enough, people want longer battery life and less weight.
There are several ways of improving computers without making them faster. I see Apple improving battery life of the iPhone and the iPad, but I haven't seen they do that with the Mac for a long time. The keyboard of the retina MacBook Pro and of the MacBook Air seems to be worse then the one found in the regular MacBook Pro -- and this is a department that may be much improved (see what Lenovo is doing, for instance). The trackpad, although great, remains the same. The screen of the current MacBook Pros and Airs is getting well behind the competition. And so on. It's not just making computers faster. But Apple is not improving them as it could.

iPads seem to be more than enough for many people, if you only need browsing and email it's sufficient.
Well, and that's the whole point. Tim Cook already said that the iPad will replace several computers, as many people do not really need one. Indeed, to browse web pages, read e-mails and use Facebook, the iPad is enough. And, as Apple is the market leader in tablet sales, it makes sense to push this kind of device instead of laptops. But then, if the focus of Apple is shifting towards these iOS devices, I'm out of it. I see no reason to buy a Mac if it is going to turn into a laptop for checking e-mails and browsing the Web. I want a real workhouse full of breakthrough technology. But I just can't see it. All I can see are laptops and desktops with beautiful designs that are years old now and are being left behind by competitors (with the exception, of course, of the über-expensive retina MacBook Pro), while iOS devices are cutting-edge.
 

Mrbobb

macrumors 601
Aug 27, 2012
4,989
194
The New World IS MOBILE. Everybody's attention is on mobile.

Now u can still build a very bitching PC yourself, no sweat.
 

justperry

macrumors G4
Aug 10, 2007
10,494
5,915
I'm a rolling stone.
Well, and that's the whole point. Tim Cook already said that the iPad will replace several computers, as many people do not really need one. Indeed, to browse web pages, read e-mails and use Facebook, the iPad is enough. And, as Apple is the market leader in tablet sales, it makes sense to push this kind of device instead of laptops. But then, if the focus of Apple is shifting towards these iOS devices, I'm out of it. I see no reason to buy a Mac if it is going to turn into a laptop for checking e-mails and browsing the Web. I want a real workhouse full of breakthrough technology. But I just can't see it. All I can see are laptops and desktops with beautiful designs that are years old now and are being left behind by competitors (with the exception, of course, of the über-expensive retina MacBook Pro), while iOS devices are cutting-edge.
Don't get me wrong, I hate it that Apple is this way now, I wish they never made those iGadgets, but what can you do about it.
I had Macs since 2000 and enjoyed most of it, but especially last 2-3 years they go in a direction I don't like, I wish it was still the company which made computers only, those days are gone, they are here "just" to make as much money as they can, more than 110 B in the bank, when is it enough.
The PPC days were great, those machines are still running OS X nicely, shame there is no support whatsoever.
 

skaertus

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Feb 23, 2009
3,351
462
Brazil
The New World IS MOBILE. Everybody's attention is on mobile.

Now u can still build a very bitching PC yourself, no sweat.
I must disagree. The laptop is mobile. Some laptops are almost as thin as an iPad, as as mobile as one.

The world is mobile, but that's not what drives sales of iPhones and iPads, IMHO. The world IS HYPE. Devices for non-geeks. Simpler, more casual devices. Nothing complicated. Touch-based devices, in which you may do only one task at a time. My dog could use those things. No multitasking. Multi-what?

You have Facebook, you can tweet, you share your photos with your friends. What else could you ask of your iPhone? Plus, it has a great design and it's from Apple, the Louis Vuitton of electronic devices. And you put cases and skins on it -- it's like making your iPhone wear clothes! Oh, how cute! Suddenly, your device has everything to cause a good impression on your friends and it makes you socialize.

What about the computer part? Oh, that's boring, that's for nerdy people who don't have friends to share photos with. Leave those people alone with their lonely, anti-social, laptops. It has a keyboard, but why would someone write a sentence with more than 140 characters? Multi-tasking for what? I don't even know what that means...

----------

Don't get me wrong, I hate it that Apple is this way now, I wish they never made those iGadgets, but what can you do about it.
I am happy with my iPhone. It's a great device. But that's it. I can do several things on it, but it will never -- never -- replace a real computer.

I had Macs since 2000 and enjoyed most of it, but especially last 2-3 years they go in a direction I don't like, I wish it was still the company which made computers only, those days are gone, they are here "just" to make as much money as they can, more than 110 B in the bank, when is it enough.
The PPC days were great, those machines are still running OS X nicely, shame there is no support whatsoever.
It really seems like Apple is here to make as much money as they can, and nothing else. Apple doesn't distribute dividends, don't buy expensive companies, don't develop expensive technologies. It just sits on a huge pile of cash.

----------

Steve Jobs said himself that Apple is focusing on a post PC erra. Tablets are the future my friend.
Well, that's convenient to Apple, but not necessarily true. Apple has only 5% of the global PC market, but it has more 70% of the tablet market. It makes a lot of sense to Apple to call the tablet a post-PC device.

But it's not. A tablet is a tablet, a PC is a PC. Tablets did exist before the iPad, but the iPad became popular because of the ergonomics and of all the hype around it.

Now try to pick a tablet and write a letter on it. Hard, isn't it? Then try to write an article. Or a book or a dissertation. Can you do it? Can you really live without a keyboard?

I do have a 3rd generation iPad and, of course, it is a great device. A great casual device. It has its functions, but it won't replace a real computer. I've managed to spend two weeks with an iPad and an iPhone as my two only computer devices, and I almost went crazy.
 

AirThis

macrumors 6502a
Mar 6, 2012
505
0
Tablets are the future my friend.
Perhaps, but they haven't got it quite right for the moment as far as I'm concerned. When 3DS MAX or Adobe Premiere runs on tablets comfortably, then I'll consider them as something other than devices for surfing and reading email whilst commuting.
 

SDAVE

macrumors 68040
Jun 16, 2007
3,381
443
Nowhere
The New World IS MOBILE. Everybody's attention is on mobile.

Now u can still build a very bitching PC yourself, no sweat.
That's not the point.

Apple's most loyal users were the pro's. Even when Apple was in the dumpster, they still stuck around.

Mac Pro needs a redesign and constant processor update.
 

papetorh

macrumors newbie
Oct 8, 2012
19
0
The op is rigt

He is right on this one, and for you all who dont agree, world is made out of two kind of people, consumers and creators. You can not i repeat, you can not create amazing apps, videos, movies, even amazings iphones , tablets and so on WITHOUT A GREAT COMPUTER.. Apple is currently overpricing imacs and minis also macs pro.
 

throAU

macrumors 603
Feb 13, 2012
6,214
3,558
Perth, Western Australia
The current designs aren't broken, and changing them costs money.


Spec updates are fine. They could be a little more regular in some cases (Mac Pro, Mac Mini), but designing a shiny new case and re-tooling their factories "just because" is a waste of time.


Also - iWork has certainly been getting updates. No official new version, but it is being updated through software update.

Of course there is more focus on iOS devices. This is where the bulk of the money is, and most people don't really need a computer. Pre iPad/tablet, people bought a computer to do stuff they can now do on a tablet without worrying about viruses, etc. Parents, grandparets, people not nerds - they want Facebook, web, online banking, email and video calls. The tablet can do all of that quite happily.

The laptop/desktop hardware problem is more or less "solved". There isn't a huge amount do be done other than higher res displays (see MBP-R) and faster cpu/more ram, which gets delivered with each spec bump.

What would you have them do? Change the design just to make it look different? I quite like the fact that the design hasn't changed.
 
Last edited:

ollyb

macrumors member
Jun 15, 2011
53
0
I think it's fair to say that a lot of people here like to update their systems every 2 or 3 years, but want whatever they upgrade to to be different enough to their last purchase, so they can justify it to themselves.

Laptops, all-in-ones, desktops, they're all very mature product lines. Aside from incremental speed upgrades, what more do you want? Until we get touchscreens with haptic response instead of keyboards, and hologram screens, I'm struggling to think of any innovations that would be useful!
 

SDAVE

macrumors 68040
Jun 16, 2007
3,381
443
Nowhere
The current designs aren't broken, and changing them costs money.


Spec updates are fine. They could be a little more regular in some cases (Mac Pro, Mac Mini), but designing a shiny new case and re-tooling their factories "just because" is a waste of time.


Also - iWork has certainly been getting updates. No official new version, but it is being updated through software update.

Of course there is more focus on iOS devices. This is where the bulk of the money is, and most people don't really need a computer. Pre iPad/tablet, people bought a computer to do stuff they can now do on a tablet without worrying about viruses, etc. Parents, grandparets, people not nerds - they want Facebook, web, online banking, email and video calls. The tablet can do all of that quite happily.

The laptop/desktop hardware problem is more or less "solved". There isn't a huge amount do be done other than higher res displays (see MBP-R) and faster cpu/more ram, which gets delivered with each spec bump.

What would you have them do? Change the design just to make it look different? I quite like the fact that the design hasn't changed.
They can make a much smaller case for the Mac Pro.

It's a beautiful design and works great, but it's old. They can fit more in a smaller case.
 

tekno

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2011
842
4
Apple is charging a fortune for every Mac -- but it is not spending a fortune in making Macs better.
Very good point.

And I agree, personally, for the first time in a decade, my laptp purchase will involve a long, serious look at a Windows 8 PC.

----------

The current designs aren't broken, and changing them costs money.
It's not like Apple can't afford it.
 

SDAVE

macrumors 68040
Jun 16, 2007
3,381
443
Nowhere
^ Windows 8 is horrible, though. Not good for productivity.

I think many people who want Mac Pro's and iMacs work in the pro industry (I know this is a generalization, but it's quiet true.)

I currently use my 2011 MBP as a desktop replacement (because I can quickly take it away with me and don't have to switch between systems) but oh lord, that fan is annoying.
 

NewbieCanada

macrumors 68030
Oct 9, 2007
2,574
35
I love the OP! I totally concur with it too. I am sick and tired of hearing about the latest iPhone 15S. What about great computers? What about a 17" MacBook Pro with Retina display and built-in Apple TV? What about a computer designed with Liquid Metal? What about a computer wafer thin with 2TB of memory and a built-in CD drive (yes, with legacy technology)? I mean, come on Apple, give us something new.
What about Apple NOT throwing away stockholders' investments into things that MIGHT appeal to a tiny subset of their customer base?

Who is going to buy a $3000 laptop that's too big to take anywhere? What functionality does Apple TV provide that isn't already provided by iTunes and other Apps? How do you expect them to make 2 TB of memory wafer thin? Who on earth NEEDS 2 TB of memory even if they could afford it? Who wants or needs a CD drive.

Fact is, they just did a major refresh of the Mac laptops by introducing the Retina - a machine that simply has no competition. And it's likely to be followed next year with a major refresh of the Air line.
 

NewbieCanada

macrumors 68030
Oct 9, 2007
2,574
35
That's not the point.

Apple's most loyal users were the pro's. Even when Apple was in the dumpster, they still stuck around.

Mac Pro needs a redesign and constant processor update.
It's very nice that they're loyal, but there aren't nearly enough of them to make a profit from.

Apple isn't a charity.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,461
4,965
Honestly, don't see the big problem. Sure, the iMac and Mac Pro are outdated and Apple should really get their act together on that. However, this year they introduced a next-generation laptop (rMBP) as well as a new OS X version, so I hardly see how you would call it neglecting Macs. Neglecting desktops, yes. But in mobile computing (both smartphones and laptops), Apple is on top of its game right now, having both one of the best consumer mobile computers (Air) and a mobile workstation computers (retina MBP) out there.

P.S. You complain about lack of redesign. Why do you even want a redesign in the first place? The current design of Apple laptops is distinctive and functional. In smartphone business, it is important to have a new design here and then in order to be different from the competition (who usually copies Apple's design anyway)
 

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