Is Apple scamming me?

[Kaan709]

Hello readers,
My Macbook Pro 13" Mid-2012 is currently in hospital after a vicious attack from a "Genius". The story unfolded the day before my exam, I open the display of the laptop and it stopped half-way, as if something was caught in-between the hinge. I inspect the display, and couldn't find anything. I was only able to close the screen, so I did. Once the hinge was uncovered, a small hairline crack was seen on the 'clutch' (plastic hinge), and the display was slightly loose from the unibody. I made an appointment at Apple, and it went through diagnostics. I was told that it would be $400+ to fix it, and that she tried to tighten the display. I was still trying to digest the price, and asked if I could have a few days to think about it. Now at home, I discover that my display has been loosened further from the unibody, to the point of not holding itself up. I immediately call Apple Care, and the Senior Executive Member waived the fee for me. Extremely grateful.



Over the next few days, waiting for the appointment, my keyboard was playing up. A few keys on the top row, such as; esc, F1... and delete. Writing my essay for english meant I could make no mistakes! And the help from the trackpad, made it easier.



At the Apple Store ready to give my severed laptop in for revival, I run through the repair and what will be waived. I'm told that the Display, Hard Drive (previous issues), and the keyboard will be waived. I ask if they could repair my trackpad too, and that I will cover the costs of the trackpad, due to water damage. The water damage was over 15 months ago, when I spilt a minute amount of water on the trackpad. I've taken the laptop in for diagnostics for the trackpad, and was told that the water damage has only effected the trackpad, and the hard drive was faulty, however unrelated to water. I couldn't afford the cost at the time, so I waited a few weeks. After the wait, the trackpad started to work again, and was like it was new. The Macbook continued to work perfectly for 15 months, until the day that the genius broke my display further.



Back to the Apple Store, I'm told verbally that the trackpad's damage shouldn't effect the keyboard, and I reiterated multiple times that the trackpad was 'faulty'. I sign the papers, and wait for 7 days.



After the 7 day wait, I go into the apple store to pick up my rehabilitated laptop. However, the genius tells me that the keyboard will not be waived due to water damage, and that I had to pay $650+. I was confused that there was water damage to my keyboard and asked for the evidence. I was shown a picture of the trackpad water indicator, the same picture that was shown to me 15 months ago. I reiterated again that this was known prior to the repair, but to his advantage, he showed me the form I signed. They worded the agreement perfectly to counteract our verbal agreement, and stated "Top case can be covered if no liquid or physical damage is found to be the cause of the issue." meaning that the trackpad voided the top case warranty. I again asked for more evidence, but was refused as they didn't find anything.



In conclusion, do you think Apple has merit over refusing the repair of my laptop based on their assumption of 'water damage'? Do you think it's fair to have the keyboard replaced free-of-charge, because of their "genius" not taking "care and skill"? Or do you think that I should pay for the faults of Apple?



I've spoken to the store managers, and they're refusing. I've also spoken to the Senior Executive members at Apple Care, and they agree with my claims, however can't enforce anything. I've also spoken to Fair Trading NSW, about breach of Australian Consumer Law, and they also can't enforce, but only mediate. So i'm left now seeking advice, and wondering if my claims have any merit. As i'll be taking this to small claims Tribunal in NSW.



Thank you for your time, and effort reading.

 

[cerberusss]

They worded the agreement perfectly to counteract our verbal agreement, and stated "Top case can be covered if no liquid or physical damage is found to be the cause of the issue."

Do I understand correctly that the following happened?
- You explained something to the genius
- Erroneously or not, he put something on paper that counteracts your explanation
- You signed that paper

 

[Kaan709]

Do I understand correctly that the following happened?
- You explained something to the genius
- Erroneously or not, he put something on paper that counteracts your explanation
- You signed that paper

However, verbal agreements are still legal agreements. Just a lot harder to prove.

 

[Ma2k5]

However, verbal agreements are still legal agreements. Just a lot harder to prove.

Yes but it doesn't look great when you say you signed a written agreement which contradicts a verbal agreement - basically admitting to not reading the written agreement makes you look a bit lost. If there was no written agreement, you'd probably have a better chance. Now it's your word against theirs but they have physical evidence of your agreement.

 

[Sirolway]

"
Is Apple scamming me?
"

No.
But thanks for the clickbait

 

[UnluckyXIII]

Yes but it doesn't look great when you say you signed a written agreement which contradicts a verbal agreement - basically admitting to not reading the written agreement makes you look a bit lost. If there was no written agreement, you'd probably have a better chance. Now it's your word against theirs but they have physical evidence of your agreement.

^^ This, unfortunately they have written proof of you agreeing to their terms, spoken agreement or not it puts you in a very difficult situation if you try to pursue this further. I know it's the last thing you need to hear but you should have read and contested any articles in the written agreement before signing it... I'm not saying that you can't win your case but for me it would be heavily in Apple's favour.

 

[EndlessBuffoonery]

After the 7 day wait, I go into the apple store to pick up my rehabilitated laptop. However, the genius tells me that the keyboard will not be waived due to water damage, and that I had to pay $650+. I was confused that there was water damage to my keyboard and asked for the evidence. I was shown a picture of the trackpad water indicator, the same picture that was shown to me 15 months ago. I reiterated again that this was known prior to the repair, but to his advantage, he showed me the form I signed. They worded the agreement perfectly to counteract our verbal agreement, and stated "Top case can be covered if no liquid or physical damage is found to be the cause of the issue." meaning that the trackpad voided the top case warranty. I again asked for more evidence, but was refused as they didn't find anything.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why did you ask for more evidence of water damage if you acknowledge that there was water damage to the trackpad and you had seen the trackpad water indicator which proved this? If the agreement was invalidated by evidence of water damage and you knew there was evidence of water damage, why did you sign the agreement?

In any case, it's obvious Apple didn't "scam" you. For one, this is the way they would operate with any customer. It's not like they've instituted a special set of rules just to take advantage of the fact that you admitted to having water damage to the trackpad. Anybody who goes in will be given the same "no water damage" agreement. Also, it sounds like you signed on the dotted line, which means you agreed to the agreement, right? Where is the scam? They wrote it down in black and white and you signed off on it. You agreed to it, right?

 

[Kaan709]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but why did you ask for more evidence of water damage if you acknowledge that there was water damage to the trackpad and you had seen the trackpad water indicator which proved this? If the agreement was invalidated by evidence of water damage and you knew there was evidence of water damage, why did you sign the agreement?

In any case, it's obvious Apple didn't "scam" you. For one, this is the way they would operate with any customer. It's not like they've instituted a special set of rules just to take advantage of the fact that you admitted to having water damage to the trackpad. Anybody who goes in will be given the same "no water damage" agreement. Also, it sounds like you signed on the dotted line, which means you agreed to the agreement, right? Where is the scam? They wrote it down in black and white and you signed off on it. You agreed to it, right?

Yes you have misunderstood. I'm referring to evidence of water damage in the keyboard, or anywhere else but the trackpad. Both the genius and I knew about the trackpad, and we discussed how "it should be fine" and "i don't think it would effect the keyboard".

Also, when I say 'scam', I mean that they deceived me and manipulated our verbal contract. If confusing a customer and then changing their words slightly, so it's in their favour, is a scam.

 

[Ma2k5]

Yes you have misunderstood. I'm referring to evidence of water damage in the keyboard, or anywhere else but the trackpad. Both the genius and I knew about the trackpad, and we discussed how "it should be fine" and "i don't think it would effect the keyboard".

Also, when I say 'scam', I mean that they deceived me and manipulated our verbal contract. If confusing a customer and then changing their words slightly, so it's in their favour, is a scam.

That was your clue to read the written agreement. There is no verbal agreement here at all.

 

[Kaan709]

That was your clue to read the written agreement. There is no verbal agreement here at all.

I understand your perspective, however they said the keyboard is called the top case, and I was charged extra for the trackpad. So when I read the written contract, it says that the top case will be voided if liquid damage is found to be the problem, which to my perspective is that 'if there is liquid damage in the keyboard".

Sorry but I didn't give the key information, but different opinions will help me build a stronger case when I go to the Tribunal.

 

[bizack]

Hello readers,
My Macbook Pro 13" Mid-2012 is currently in hospital after a vicious attack from a "Genius". The story unfolded the day before my exam, I open the display of the laptop and it stopped half-way, as if something was caught in-between the hinge. I inspect the display, and couldn't find anything. I was only able to close the screen, so I did. Once the hinge was uncovered, a small hairline crack was seen on the 'clutch' (plastic hinge), and the display was slightly loose from the unibody. I made an appointment at Apple, and it went through diagnostics. I was told that it would be $400+ to fix it, and that she tried to tighten the display. I was still trying to digest the price, and asked if I could have a few days to think about it. Now at home, I discover that my display has been loosened further from the unibody, to the point of not holding itself up. I immediately call Apple Care, and the Senior Executive Member waived the fee for me. Extremely grateful.



Over the next few days, waiting for the appointment, my keyboard was playing up. A few keys on the top row, such as; esc, F1... and delete. Writing my essay for english meant I could make no mistakes! And the help from the trackpad, made it easier.



At the Apple Store ready to give my severed laptop in for revival, I run through the repair and what will be waived. I'm told that the Display, Hard Drive (previous issues), and the keyboard will be waived. I ask if they could repair my trackpad too, and that I will cover the costs of the trackpad, due to water damage. The water damage was over 15 months ago, when I spilt a minute amount of water on the trackpad. I've taken the laptop in for diagnostics for the trackpad, and was told that the water damage has only effected the trackpad, and the hard drive was faulty, however unrelated to water. I couldn't afford the cost at the time, so I waited a few weeks. After the wait, the trackpad started to work again, and was like it was new. The Macbook continued to work perfectly for 15 months, until the day that the genius broke my display further.



Back to the Apple Store, I'm told verbally that the trackpad's damage shouldn't effect the keyboard, and I reiterated multiple times that the trackpad was 'faulty'. I sign the papers, and wait for 7 days.



After the 7 day wait, I go into the apple store to pick up my rehabilitated laptop. However, the genius tells me that the keyboard will not be waived due to water damage, and that I had to pay $650+. I was confused that there was water damage to my keyboard and asked for the evidence. I was shown a picture of the trackpad water indicator, the same picture that was shown to me 15 months ago. I reiterated again that this was known prior to the repair, but to his advantage, he showed me the form I signed. They worded the agreement perfectly to counteract our verbal agreement, and stated "Top case can be covered if no liquid or physical damage is found to be the cause of the issue." meaning that the trackpad voided the top case warranty. I again asked for more evidence, but was refused as they didn't find anything.



In conclusion, do you think Apple has merit over refusing the repair of my laptop based on their assumption of 'water damage'? Do you think it's fair to have the keyboard replaced free-of-charge, because of their "genius" not taking "care and skill"? Or do you think that I should pay for the faults of Apple?



I've spoken to the store managers, and they're refusing. I've also spoken to the Senior Executive members at Apple Care, and they agree with my claims, however can't enforce anything. I've also spoken to Fair Trading NSW, about breach of Australian Consumer Law, and they also can't enforce, but only mediate. So i'm left now seeking advice, and wondering if my claims have any merit. As i'll be taking this to small claims Tribunal in NSW.



Thank you for your time, and effort reading.

So you f'd up your laptop in multiple ways, signed an agreement as to what you'd pay for and for some reason think Apple is screwing you over. Good luck with that.

 

[Newtons Apple]

I understand your perspective, however they said the keyboard is called the top case, and I was charged extra for the trackpad. So when I read the written contract, it says that the top case will be voided if liquid damage is found to be the problem, which to my perspective is that 'if there is liquid damage in the keyboard".

Sorry but I didn't give the key information, but different opinions will help me build a stronger case when I go to the Tribunal.

Tribunal? Best of luck when they produce the signed paper.

 

[EndlessBuffoonery]

Yes you have misunderstood. I'm referring to evidence of water damage in the keyboard, or anywhere else but the trackpad. Both the genius and I knew about the trackpad, and we discussed how "it should be fine" and "i don't think it would effect the keyboard".

I understood that part, but it sounds to me like the agreement was saying that evidence of any water damage would invalidate the waived fees. Are you saying that the agreement specified water damage to the keyboard specifically as the thing that would invalidate the free repairs? Because unless they said that, it sounds like evidence of water damage to the trackpad is sufficient to invalidate the agreement.

Also, when I say 'scam', I mean that they deceived me and manipulated our verbal contract. If confusing a customer and then changing their words slightly, so it's in their favour, is a scam.

Well it doesn't sound like they confused you. They did, after all, put down in writing what you would and wouldn't be accountable for. It's not a very good scam if they gave you the information beforehand.

 

[Kaan709]

So you f'd up your laptop in multiple ways, signed an agreement as to what you'd pay for and for some reason think Apple is screwing you over. Good luck with that.

and how did I "f my laptop in so many ways"? If opening my laptop breaks the hinge, then why should I pay over a thousand dollars? The water damage to the trackpad was my fault, and I admit this, and offered to pay for it from the start. However, when the "genius" broke my laptop, then it's their fault.
[doublepost=1481807185][/doublepost]

I understood that part, but it sounds to me like the agreement was saying that evidence of any water damage would invalidate the waived fees. Are you saying that the agreement specified water damage to the keyboard specifically as the thing that would invalidate the free repairs? Because unless they said that, it sounds like evidence of water damage to the trackpad is sufficient to invalidate the agreement.



Well it doesn't sound like they confused you. They did, after all, put down in writing what you would and wouldn't be accountable for. It's not a very good scam if they gave you the information beforehand.

It said top case, i'm not sure if that counts. Because the sheet says top case $275, and then as a separate charge being the trackpad $75.
[doublepost=1481807225][/doublepost]

Tribunal? Best of luck when they produce the signed paper.

We have laws in Australia that protect the consumer. We're not sue happy here mate

 

[TechZeke]

This is why even though its awkward and annoys people, I always read agreements.

Legally you're screwed because of the signed document. You weren't scammed, but you just got duped by an ass Genius.

For $650, you might as well buy a new laptop. No point in dumping more money into this damaged machine.

 

[Newtons Apple]

We have laws in Australia that protect the consumer. We're not sue happy here mate

Please keep us all posted on your journey though this.

You are young and have much to learn.

Good Luck and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

[cerberusss]

However, verbal agreements are still legal agreements. Just a lot harder to prove.

The problem is, you first made an agreement. Then you followed up with another, newer agreement. And you put your signature on that more recent agreement.

Personally, I think the blame lies with yourself. And 650 bucks is pretty cheap for a life lesson. I've made mistakes that were much, much more costly and had to work nights and weekends for about two years. Just because of putting my signature under a foolish business proposal.

 

[maflynn]

I'm told verbally that the trackpad's damage shouldn't effect the keyboard,

Keyword here is shouldn't. Sounds like apple in delving deeper into the repair discovered other damage that was attributed to the water spillage.

I think ultimate, verbal contracts are worth the paper they're written on, more so since you signed an authorization for repair (if I understand your post correctly)

 

[AppleSmack]

Hello readers,
My Macbook Pro 13" Mid-2012 is currently in hospital after a vicious attack from a "Genius"…

Came here expecting a good story about a punch up. Disappointed.

 

[jerryk]

Keyword here is shouldn't. Sounds like apple in delving deeper into the repair discovered other damage that was attributed to the water spillage.

Agreed. Liquid damage is insidious. The machine can boot and run fine after cleaning up a spill, but all the while components, solder junctions, traces, etc. are starting to corrode and develop rust. This continues to grow over time and finally, some time in the future, a connection is shorted and components burn out.

 

[Capt T]

Most important, you signed an agreement that overrides your verbal agreement. It will also be the evidence presented to show Apple are in the right to charge you for a repair.

Also you had water damage. To you it may seem it only effected the trackpad but as others have said, overtime corrosion can happen from water damage, and may have attributed to your keyboard issue. Apple looking farther into the repair seems to have come to that conclusion, and based on the agreement you signed, they are in their rights to charge you for the repair, if you choose to have them continue. Also seems something had happened to your hinge to warrant you setting up an appointment in the first place.

Seems you have quite a bit going on with your laptop, none of which seems to be Apple's fault. You have signed an agreement with them stating if there is any possibility water damage caused the issue, they would not do the repair for free. Your laptop is out of warranty so Apple is not at fault for any of your damages you may have caused, or wear and tear over time has caused.

If it were me I would cut my losses and spend the money on a new computer instead of a frivolous suit that would take up more of my time. It won't be the manager that shows up to small claims court, it will be a solicitor on retainer or employed by Apple that will show up, with a copy of the documents you signed.

Also keep in mind, we only know the part of the story you were willing to share. So all of us playing armchair solicitor in your thread, don't have all of the story. But from what you have shared, it seems you don't have a case against Apple.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"However, verbal agreements are still legal agreements. Just a lot harder to prove."

You are in Australia?

Not sure of how consumer laws work there, but in most instances a written agreement will take precedence over any "verbal agreements" in a court.

The judge is going to look at the written agreement, and then ask "is this your signature? You signed this? Did you read it? Do you understand it?"

And the paper will carry the burden of proof regarding the substance of "the agreement" between the parties.

And that will decide the case.

 

[iizmoo]

In multiple postings, OP, you stated the genius agreed it "shouldn't" affect the keyboard, not that it "can't" to a legal contractual standard. Unless you have an explicit agreement verbal or written that they said they'll cover something regardless of causes, their coverage extend to component failure withing the warranty timeframe. Since Mid-2012, you're already beyond 3 years Apple Care by my count. So you should feel lucky they waived any repair costs at all.

 

[Howard2k]

Even if the verbal agreement could be validated, it could be argued that the written agreement replaced the verbal agreement. It's not unusual to see in a written agreement a clause to that effect. But even if it's not there, if two parties agree to paint a car blue, then agree to paint the car green, should the car be painted blue or green? Obviously green.

 

[therealseebs]

The real question here is:

Did the problem in question result from the water damage, or was the year-previous water damage totally unrelated? If it's unrelated, and they just decided to point to it to charge for a thing, then they're scamming you. If it really was because of the water damage, then they're probably not. Although they still should have been clearer about those terms, then, since they obviously did not successfully communicate with you about what their policy would be.