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geepondy

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
52
6
I have an Apple Ipad Pro 10.5 that saw substantial use during the first year of the pandemic and battery life is very noticeably waning. I heard about Apple's $99 Ipad replacement program for Ipads with subpar batteries so early in the summer I went to the Apple store where they said battery was still 88 percent which I found extremely hard to believe. A couple of weeks ago, I called tech support where they did another battery check and still said it was still sufficient although he wouldn't give me a number. Then I found out about Imazing and downloaded the program. 570 charge cycles and battery health of 73%. To check the accuracy of the program I hooked up my iphone 11 of which Apple Health says battery is 79 percent. Imazing said it was 78% so it seems to be pretty accurate.

Is it possible Apple has a much more stringent battery test for the Ipad as I'm sure they don't like replacing them? I wish they had a Ipad IOS Battery Health check like they do for the iphone and watch.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,025
3,787
Yes, they don't make much money if at all on battery service, so their 80% is more like 60% on imazing unfortunately... 10.5 pro goes vintage in Spring / Summer 2024 (after which no more battery service), I do hope my battery goes below their threashold by then because it's already bad (363 cycles and 82.5% according to imazing)
 

geepondy

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
52
6
I really feel scorned. I have replaced my IPADs in the past due to speed issues but the 10.5 Pro is still fast enough for me, yet it still has planned obsolescence because of the battery even if one is still happy with the performance. I wish there was a law requiring them to make the product with a serviceable battery replacement.
 
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floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,227
Earth
This is such a ripoff. Show them the iMazing results in person and ask politely for a replacement.
 

floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,227
Earth
I really feel scorned. I have replaced my IPADs in the past due to speed issues but the 10.5 Pro is still fast enough for me, yet it still has planned obsolescence because of the battery even if one is still happy with the performance. I wish there was a law requiring them to make the product with a serviceable battery replacement.
You may like what the EU is doing... Apple may be forced to make their phones readily replaceable like old Samsungs. Not sure about tablets though...
 

Agile55

macrumors 6502
Jul 18, 2008
340
114
TX
Don't have iMazing *yet* but it seems like a solid addition plus I do have refurb'd 1st gen 11" iPP, thoughts on iMazing plz?
 

Mlrollin91

macrumors G5
Nov 20, 2008
14,114
10,098
This is such a ripoff. Show them the iMazing results in person and ask politely for a replacement.
iMazing, like Coconutbattery shows the real time battery health. Battery health fluctuates thousands of times a day depending on what the battery is doing at that given time (charging, heavy load, temperature, etc.). Apple's diagnostics takes a two-week average to determine the battery health. iMazing is great for a quick snapshot but does not show the full picture of the battery. I've had my battery health fluctuate between 80% and 90% in the same hour.
 

contacos

macrumors 601
Nov 11, 2020
4,471
17,330
Mexico City living in Berlin
Apple seems to cheat those battery stats in general. I have applecare+ on my Apple Watch Series 6, iPad Air 4 and iPhone 12 Pro Max and the battery stats have been stuck at 82% for months. How convenient for them
 

Marshall73

macrumors 68030
Apr 20, 2015
2,664
2,732
Apple seems to cheat those battery stats in general. I have applecare+ on my Apple Watch Series 6, iPad Air 4 and iPhone 12 Pro Max and the battery stats have been stuck at 82% for months. How convenient for them
Drop it and break it then get a replacement 🤣
 

floral

macrumors 65816
Jan 12, 2023
1,011
1,227
Earth
Like it or not, Apple uses there own diagnostic equipment and software. They won't entertain results from a 3rd party app for diagnosing issues..
Oh. That's a bummer.

(I have no clue what I was on a few days ago. Must have stubbed my toe or something. Sorry.)
 
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geepondy

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 5, 2013
52
6
I may give up the ghost and buy a new Ipad in the Spring. Considering Air as they seem to go on sale more than the 11" pros but wondering how much I will miss 120hz pro motion. And also to a lesser degree poorer sound. If Ipad Pro had AMOLED then it would be a Pro for sure or maybe even if the 11 had the mini-LED tech that the 13.7 has. I kind of scratch my head wondering why the mini LED is also not ported to the Pro11 as well.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,351
12,281
I may give up the ghost and buy a new Ipad in the Spring. Considering Air as they seem to go on sale more than the 11" pros but wondering how much I will miss 120hz pro motion. And also to a lesser degree poorer sound. If Ipad Pro had AMOLED then it would be a Pro for sure or maybe even if the 11 had the mini-LED tech that the 13.7 has. I kind of scratch my head wondering why the mini LED is also not ported to the Pro11 as well.

The discounts tend to depend more on the age and upcoming releases.

When the Air 5 was just released, the 128GB M1 iPad Pro 11 was pretty much always on sale for $699-749 (same price or less than 256GB Air 5).

Lowest price I've seen on the 128GB M1 Pro 11 was $549 (Target) during the holiday/post-holiday sales. I'd say it's well worth the extra $50 over the 64GB Air 5.

Personally, 64GB is just way too cramped for my liking while the 256GB Air 5 and 128GB Pro 11 are very close in price (barring limited time clearance deals like the Target one) so for me, Air 5 isn't quite a slam dunk. Although one thing I really do like about the Air 5 are the colors.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,267
1,803
Does an iPad replacement even make a difference at all?

On iPhones, there is a mediocre improvement if the device is updated, to a highly mediocre (if not outright poor) battery life when compared to the original iOS version. Battery health is completely irrelevant if the device is on its original version of iOS, or on an early enough one, anyway.

iPads have far larger batteries, so not only do they outright replace the iPad (rendering any battery replacement useless to me, as I don’t update, so the difference between the iOS versions trumps any and all capacity improvements), but moving on to the vast majority of users that do update... does a replacement help enough to make a whole device replacement useful? Going further, do they help at all?

My battery life on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro is exactly the same it was about 3.5 years ago, when it was forced out of iOS 9 into iOS 12. It is still on iOS 12, so assuming iPadOS 16 cut battery life in half when compared to iOS 9, and affected it considerably when compared to iOS 12, would a battery replacement even help? It barely helps on iPhones, but iPads have far larger batteries, so the impact of a severely degraded battery should be even more muted... which would render a battery replacement even more useless than it is on iPhones, at least as far as recovering like-new battery life goes.
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,351
12,281
Does an iPad replacement even make a difference at all?

On iPhones, there is a mediocre improvement if the device is updated, to a highly mediocre (if not outright poor) battery life when compared to the original iOS version. Battery health is completely irrelevant if the device is on its original version of iOS, or on an early enough one, anyway.

iPads have far larger batteries, so not only do they outright replace the iPad (rendering any battery replacement useless to me, as I don’t update, so the difference between the iOS versions trumps any and all capacity improvements), but moving on to the vast majority of users that do update... does a replacement help enough to make a whole device replacement useful? Going further, do they help at all?

My battery life on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro is exactly the same it was about 3.5 years ago, when it was forced out of iOS 9 into iOS 12. It is still on iOS 12, so assuming iPadOS 16 cut battery life in half when compared to iOS 9, and affected it considerably when compared to iOS 12, would a battery replacement even help? It barely helps on iPhones, but iPads have far larger batteries, so the impact of a severely degraded battery should be even more muted... which would render a battery replacement even more useless than it is on iPhones, at least as far as recovering like-new battery life goes.

You haven’t used an iPad with severely degraded battery. I’ve seen an iPad mini 4 that won’t work unless plugged in to power.

On my iPad Pro 10.5, I’ve sometimes gotten random jumps in remaining battery %. Alas, I’m keeping that for some abandoned/deleted apps so I can’t get it replaced.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,267
1,803
You haven’t used an iPad with severely degraded battery. I’ve seen an iPad mini 4 that won’t work unless plugged in to power.

On my iPad Pro 10.5, I’ve sometimes gotten random jumps in remaining battery %. Alas, I’m keeping that for some abandoned/deleted apps so I can’t get it replaced.
That’s interesting, I wouldn’t have thought that could be the case with the Mini 4.

It’s true, I haven’t. I do use an iPhone 6s on iOS 10 with 63% health. Battery life is flawless. The reason for that is clear: iOS 10 doesn’t strain the processor as much as iOS 15, so a degraded battery still has the required voltage. Pure efficiency. I asked because I genuinely didn’t know, but my thought process stemmed from that: if a battery on a 6s with something like 1,100 mAh can work flawlessly on iOS 10... the 9.7-inch iPad Pro would have 5,000 mah with 68% capacity. Yes, the screen on the iPad consumes a lot more power, hence the larger battery, but I thought it might be more capable to withstand that regardless due to sheer battery size, increased power consumption by newer iOS versions notwithstanding. It appears I was wrong.

I’ve always wondered whether one could degrade a battery enough on an iPad to make it stop working properly on an original version of iOS. I wonder whether that Mini 4 would work if it were on iOS 9, and if it did, how well would it work? I wonder whether a degraded battery would even see a battery life decrease on an iPad with an original version of iOS.

My experience with the 6s leads me to believe that it would be almost impossible to do so, but thanks to Apple and their A9 activation bug on iOS 9, I probably won’t find out for a very, very long time. My 6.5-year-old 9.7-inch iPad Pro is on iOS 12 and battery life is fine (fine in the sense that it hasn’t seen a decrease compared to when I was initially forced to update it, 3.5 years ago. It isn’t fine when compared to iOS 9), but it isn’t degraded. It isn’t a good test subject, because even if it eventually declines, I will always think... but what if? What if it were on iOS 9? What if Apple hadn’t forced it out? So far, so good though. I’ll see if I ever see a decline. Same bad-old 10-11 hours for now.

Also, I assume the 10.5-inch iPad Pro isn’t on iOS 10?
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,351
12,281
Also, I assume the 10.5-inch iPad Pro isn’t on iOS 10?

It’s on 14 but I doubt 10 would make a difference. I already experienced shorter battery life even while I was on 10 (skipped 11 and only updated to 12 right before 13 release).

I also had a 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 that was replaced in 2019 (AC+ accidental damage). I never did any battery tests but with similar usage and settings, I noticed the replacement didn't need to be charged as often as the original one did. My mom's using it now (not as heavily as I used to) and it seems like battery lasts forever on that.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,267
1,803
It’s on 14 but I doubt 10 would make a difference. I already experienced shorter battery life even while I was on 10 (skipped 11 and only updated to 12 right before 13 release).

I also had a 2017 iPad Pro 12.9 that was replaced in 2019 (AC+ accidental damage). I never did any battery tests but with similar usage and settings, I noticed the replacement didn't need to be charged as often as the original one did. My mom's using it now (not as heavily as I used to) and it seems like battery lasts forever on that.
It’s interesting, you’ve been the only person to mention that you’ve encountered significant battery life drops on iPads while remaining on original iOS versions for considerable periods of time. If I recall correctly (do correct me if I am mistaken), you had mentioned that you had encountered similar runtime drops on your 9.7-inch iPad Pro even while it was on iOS 9.

I have two cases: the 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12 I am writing this on: a negligible, half-an-hour drop after 3 years on iOS 9. I can’t track it anymore because it was forced to iOS 12, but there has been no drop whatsoever (I track it, it’s exactly the same now) as it was when Apple forced it to iOS 12 initially, back in September 2019. So, after 6.5 years, a negligible drop on iOS 9, and a 25% drop when it was forced to iOS 12, then it remained stable ever since. By “I can’t track it” I meant that it lost relevance: I can’t compare it to the new battery on iOS 9 anymore. As there hasn’t been any decrease throughout its entire stay on iOS 12, I can only assume it would be the same it was on iOS 9 right before updating, but it’s an assumption. I can’t downgrade, so I can’t try it.

And like I said, an iPhone 6s on iOS 10, which, 6.5 years later, after nearly 1400 cycles, has also had a very negligible drop when compared to my new 6s on iOS 9 back at release. Again, I tracked both. And once again, the drop is in the half-an-hour range (i.e., negligible). That 6s has 63% health. 1100 mAh.

I do wonder why you’ve encountered the drops, especially when we aren’t talking about a, I don’t know, 7-year period. It’s at most a couple of years, two or three, and I’ve used non-updated devices heavily for that period and they were perfect or nearly perfect (within 1-2% of perfect. Like I said, a 2% drop is negligible).
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,351
12,281
I do wonder why you’ve encountered the drops, especially when we aren’t talking about a, I don’t know, 7-year period. It’s at most a couple of years, two or three, and I’ve used non-updated devices heavily for that period and they were perfect or nearly perfect (within 1-2% of perfect. Like I said, a 2% drop is negligible).

Per iMazing, battery health on those iPads dropped from 100+% to high-80s/low-90s so I'm not exactly surprised.

Honestly, I find your experience weirder since your battery capacity doesn't seem to have any bearing on onscreen time (physics-wise, it doesn't make sense).
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,267
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Per iMazing, battery health on those iPads dropped from 100+% to high-80s/low-90s so I'm not exactly surprised.

Honestly, I find your experience weirder since your battery capacity doesn't seem to have any bearing on onscreen time (physics-wise, it doesn't make sense).
I first noticed that half-an-hour decrease on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro when battery health reached 85%, so, pretty similar. But your decrease is way more pronounced than mine. You mentioned it once on your 9.7-inch iPad Pro in one of our conversations, but I can’t recall the exact number. Was it around 8 hours? I think?

I agree that my experience is odd, there are physical changes (degradation) in batteries as they degrade, like you said, and I’ve found practically no difference regardless of degradation simply by staying behind in updates. That shouldn’t happen, but it’s repeatedly been the case.

That said, some iPad 2 users report fairly good battery life 11+ years later.

I don’t know where the limit is. If my 9.7-inch iPad Pro ever encounters any significant degradation compared to right after Apple forced it into iOS 12 back in September 2019, I’ll let you know!
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,351
12,281
I first noticed that half-an-hour decrease on my 9.7-inch iPad Pro when battery health reached 85%, so, pretty similar. But your decrease is way more pronounced than mine. You mentioned it once on your 9.7-inch iPad Pro in one of our conversations, but I can’t recall the exact number. Was it around 8 hours? I think?

I agree that my experience is odd, there are physical changes (degradation) in batteries as they degrade, like you said, and I’ve found practically no difference regardless of degradation simply by staying behind in updates. That shouldn’t happen, but it’s repeatedly been the case.

That said, some iPad 2 users report fairly good battery life 11+ years later.

I don’t know where the limit is. If my 9.7-inch iPad Pro ever encounters any significant degradation compared to right after Apple forced it into iOS 12 back in September 2019, I’ll let you know!

My Pro 9.7 (256GB LTE) dropped from 10-12 hours to 8-10 hours onscreen time after around a year of abuse (16-24 hour days, relatively high temps during summer).

I can't remember the exact % of mAh drop was but I believe it was somewhere around 15-20%

My iPad 4 still had good battery life when I traded it in (better than both my Pro 9.7 and 10.5). Of course, I never really used it by then since it was slow and heavy, and the web browser on iOS 6 rendered most websites like crap.

I do miss the older UI, though. It made better use of the large screen than iOS 7-16. It still annoys me how modern iOS/iPadOS limits iPad folders to a small 4x4 grid in the middle of the screen. Apple should really make app folders fullscreen like the App Drawer.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,267
1,803
My Pro 9.7 (256GB LTE) dropped from 10-12 hours to 8-10 hours onscreen time after around a year of abuse (16-24 hour days, relatively high temps during summer).

I can't remember the exact % of mAh drop was but I believe it was somewhere around 15-20%

My iPad 4 still had good battery life when I traded it in (better than both my Pro 9.7 and 10.5). Of course, I never really used it by then since it was slow and heavy, and the web browser on iOS 6 rendered most websites like crap.

I do miss the older UI, though. It made better use of the large screen than iOS 7-16. It still annoys me how modern iOS/iPadOS limits iPad folders to a small 4x4 grid in the middle of the screen. Apple should really make app folders fullscreen like the App Drawer.
Yeah, it’s more than I think it would drop. 15-20% is enough to make it drop a little, like I mentioned earlier, but my impact was minimal. iOS 12 is the culprit for my drop. Well, at least it is half-decent and at least I could keep it on iOS 12.

The iPad 4 is best iPad of all of the 9.7-inch iPads in terms of battery life, agreed!

iOS 6 is my favourite iOS version ever, and its design is beautiful! Thank you Jony Ive, so much. You broke it. Agree, it was a lot better. I retain an iPod Touch 5G on iOS 6, and it’s probably my favourite device. I don’t use it, though.
 
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