Is Final Cut Studio 2 really that horrendous?

iViking

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 23, 2006
293
0
Hi,

I am writing a feature film that I'm going to shoot next Spring and I want to get Final Cut Studio now so I know it fairly well by the time I'm ready to edit next Spring/early Summer.

I am going to get the cheaper Academic version, which is not upgradeable, so I'm wondering if there's a new version of Final Cut Studio in the near future that I should hold out for, (since technically I don't need it until the Spring), and mainly because I've read and heard that Final Cut Studio 2 is insanely buggy and hard to use.

Is it really that bad? Is there an upgrade in the works?

(I heard that Motion was improved in FCS2 but that Final Cut Pro 6 is super buggy and painful to use.)

Please advise,

Thanks!
 

pdpfilms

macrumors 68020
Jun 29, 2004
2,383
0
Vermontana
Sounds like B.S. to me. I've had no issues with FCS2 (so far as my hardware's functioning correctly). Go ahead and get it, don't worry about an upgrade... won't come for another year and a half most likely.

Also, keep in mind that the academic version does not allow profit from media created within the software. Could get you in trouble down the road if your film got picked up.
 

iViking

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 23, 2006
293
0
Sounds like B.S. to me. I've had no issues with FCS2 (so far as my hardware's functioning correctly). Go ahead and get it, don't worry about an upgrade... won't come for another year and a half most likely.

Also, keep in mind that the academic version does not allow profit from media created within the software. Could get you in trouble down the road if your film got picked up.
Thanks a lot for the info about how it won't be upgraded for at least a year. That's all I needed. I know I want the program so if it works fine now and won't be revised next week, I'm sold.

As for the profit thing--I don't see what the problem is as long as I buy it legally or whatever as a student, which I am.

I would hazard to guess that they wouldn't bring a lawsuit against me if the film did well--they'd probably promote the fact that it was edited and colored in FCP.

I could be wrong.

Thanks again!
 

irmongoose

macrumors 68030
Also, keep in mind that the academic version does not allow profit from media created within the software. Could get you in trouble down the road if your film got picked up.
That would be such an ******* thing to do. I'd be very surprised if anyone bothered to look into that, though. I mean, seriously, I think Apple lawyers have better things to do than to scout film festivals and check whether or not filmmakers have used academic versions of Final Cut.


irmongoose
 

MacFan25863

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2004
557
0
If you purchase the academic version, you agree to a number of restrictions Apple puts in place...the first being that it is for academic, non-profit work only. If you plan on making money off your film and want to do it without breaking the contract you agreed to when you installed the software, purchase the full version. Apple gives students the discount because they know they can't afford to purchase the version because they don't make money off their work, make sense?

As for bugs in FCS2, the only problem I've encountered is that I can never seem to be able to print to tape (which really isn't a big deal now since I've moved purely to HD using P2 cards instead of tapes, but could be an issue if you are dealing with MiniDV.
 

iViking

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 23, 2006
293
0
If you purchase the academic version, you agree to a number of restrictions Apple puts in place...the first being that it is for academic, non-profit work only. If you plan on making money off your film and want to do it without breaking the contract you agreed to when you installed the software, purchase the full version. Apple gives students the discount because they know they can't afford to purchase the version because they don't make money off their work, make sense?

As for bugs in FCS2, the only problem I've encountered is that I can never seem to be able to print to tape (which really isn't a big deal now since I've moved purely to HD using P2 cards instead of tapes, but could be an issue if you are dealing with MiniDV.
And what would you do if you made a student film in school and it ended up being profitable? Buy a new copy of FCS2 after you've finished with the edit? Even if you did that, it wouldn't change the fact that you edited the now-profitable student project, while in school, on an academic copy of the program.
 

spacepower7

macrumors 68000
May 6, 2004
1,509
0
I knew that Avid restricted the use of their Academic software to not-for-profit projects, but I thought that Apple and Final Cut had no such policy. I remember that being a selling point when Final Cut Pro 3.0 came out, and we purchased a lab full.

I don't see Apple taking the Avid approach, so I would verify with someone at Apple.
 

evil_santa

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2003
893
0
London, England
Personally i think the Student vers of FCP should be watermarked, that would solve the problem.

From the FCP2 studio, i dont have it yet so dont know how buggy it is, FCS1 has it own share of problems.

For the difficult to use part, depends on your experience, if you not done any editing before, it might be a steep learning curve, if you have done a lot of editing in other software it should be intuitive.

If you are not interested in Motion or DVD studio, you could save yourself even more money and get FCE
 

killr_b

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2005
816
338
Suckerfornia
If you purchase the academic version, you agree to a number of restrictions Apple puts in place...the first being that it is for academic, non-profit work only. If you plan on making money off your film and want to do it without breaking the contract you agreed to when you installed the software, purchase the full version. Apple gives students the discount because they know they can't afford to purchase the version because they don't make money off their work, make sense?/QUOTE]

^I'd like to see them prove this without you incriminating yourself.
They couldn't even get a warrant to search your computer. What would it be based on? This "reasonable belief" thing people are on because of neocon spin is not "probable cause." They have to have probable cause that you bought the academic version knowing full well that you intended to use it to make money and were fraudulent when you agreed to the terms. What kind of probable cause are you going to explain to the judge as Apple trying to sue?
"Your honor, this man has a history of attempting to avoid paying full price for products..."

To the OP-
FCS2 on my 4 core Mac Pro runs without a hiccup. On my 8 core it's even freakin' faster.
What bugs?
 

pdpfilms

macrumors 68020
Jun 29, 2004
2,383
0
Vermontana
I should eat my hat.

I had always heard that academic licenses of apple software limited the use of your own media. But lo and behold, after searching for Apple EULAs, it seems this clause exists only in myth. For instance, read the following excerpt from the FCS2 EULA posted on apple's website:

Apple FCS2 EULA said:
Academic Copies: If the Apple Software package has an academic label or if you acquired the Apple Software at an academic discount, you must be an Eligible Educational End User to use the Apple Software. "Eligible Educational End Users" means students, faculty, staff and administration attending and/or working at an educational institutional facility (i.e., college campus, public or private K-12 schools).
No mention whatsoever of usage... simply user requirements to purchase the software. I think Adobe might have restrictions on content usage, which may be where the rumor stemmed from. But either way, a limited usage clause is completely missing from the FCS2 EULA. I think that's pretty conclusive evidence that profit is fair game, from a legal standpoint anyway.
 

seany916

macrumors 6502
Jun 26, 2006
470
0
Southern California
The issue about academic version is your business.

As far as Studio 2 being buggy, it's been exactly the same as it was before, reliable for the most part, but save, save, save & back your sTUFF up onto other hard drives. The FCP files are really, really small.
 

Father Jack

macrumors 68020
Jan 1, 2007
2,481
1
Ireland
Apple gives students the discount because they know they can't afford to purchase the version because they don't make money off their work, make sense?
If you believe that, you will believe anything .. :rolleyes:

Lots of students make money from making wedding video's etc. while in college.
 

JohnMC

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2006
386
1
Duluth, MN
Having just also read my EULA from my academic copy of FCS2, you may use the software for commercial purposes as long as to stay a student or teacher at any educational institution. Two other things you should know also from the Apple FCS2 EULA are:

1) THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE. (2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions, part C)
2) You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of missiles, nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. (9. Export Control)
Other than that, have fun.

JohnMC
 

MacFan25863

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2004
557
0
^I'd like to see them prove this without you incriminating yourself.
They couldn't even get a warrant to search your computer. What would it be based on? This "reasonable belief" thing people are on because of neocon spin is not "probable cause." They have to have probable cause that you bought the academic version knowing full well that you intended to use it to make money and were fraudulent when you agreed to the terms. What kind of probable cause are you going to explain to the judge as Apple trying to sue?
"Your honor, this man has a history of attempting to avoid paying full price for products..."
How would I incriminate myself? I use the full version of Final Cut at home. I only use the academic version on the computers at school...

I NEVER said Apple would try and sue you. Please don't try and feed words into my mouth. I simply said that you could be breaking the contract. It's more of a moral thing than a legal thing.


If you believe that, you will believe anything ..

Lots of students make money from making wedding video's etc. while in college.
I know...I make for profit videos, as well. But I use the full version of Final Cut.
 

iViking

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 23, 2006
293
0
The issue about academic version is your business.

As far as Studio 2 being buggy, it's been exactly the same as it was before, reliable for the most part, but save, save, save & back your sTUFF up onto other hard drives. The FCP files are really, really small.
Do you know of any problems laying back to tape, (as in MiniDV)?
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
Buggy? :confused: Where'd you hear that? It's good enough for a little company I work at named Disney. You'll be fine.

Edu version is exactly the same function wise too.
 

elvirav

macrumors member
Jun 29, 2006
76
0
California, off and on.
Glad to hear that FCS2 is not buggy, and that a little place like Disney likes it! :D

As for academic vs. full version—well, we've established that students can make a profit from their work, but even if there was a clause about not-for-profit, I would think that it would be morally not too bad if the person bought the full version as soon as they realized that they were going to sell their film. The software company gets their money, after all. Yes, I know it would be morally ambiguous, but I know I personally wouldn't feel too guilty about doing it if it were me.

But you know, Apple is right not to make such a distinction, because it really is unreasonable. It seems to me that so often the creators of these films have no idea going in whether or not their films will sell. Should they be prohibited from selling a good student film, just because they used educational software (and did not anticipate that it would turn out as well as it did)?
 

iViking

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 23, 2006
293
0
Buggy? :confused: Where'd you hear that? It's good enough for a little company I work at named Disney. You'll be fine.

Edu version is exactly the same function wise too.
LOL--you have no idea how funny your post is, based on the circumstances.

As a matter of fact, I heard that FCS2 was buggy from another guy who just happens to work at a little company named Disney.

But then he is an Avid fan and that's how the old Avid boys tend to think, so I should have taken that into consideration.
 

MacFan25863

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2004
557
0
But then he is an Avid fan and that's how the old Avid boys tend to think, so I should have taken that into consideration.

Hahahahaha...Avid on the Mac is by far the buggiest software I have EVER used. Before we switched to Final Cut (2 years ago) we had an Avid setup with one of their DNA hardware devices...we had to reboot the entire computer just to connect an external hard drive, less the mighty Avid be displeased with having to deal with another storage medium.


:apple: all the way...works much better :D

As for the miniDV tape issue, for all I know it could just be our hardware setup (Dual PMG5 w/ 2 GB Ram working with Panasonic DVX-100, Pansonic HVX-200, or Sony DVCAM decks)
 

solvs

macrumors 603
Jun 25, 2002
5,684
1
LaLaLand, CA
LOL--you have no idea how funny your post is, based on the circumstances.

As a matter of fact, I heard that FCS2 was buggy from another guy who just happens to work at a little company named Disney.

But then he is an Avid fan and that's how the old Avid boys tend to think, so I should have taken that into consideration.
Must not be one of the guys I support. We've had little issues with hardware upgrades (always clear the caches first!), but no big issues and not buggy at all IMO. I use it myself BTW. Wouldn't touch AVID anymore with a 10 foot poll unless I had to. Besides the reasons above, it's needlessly complicated.

FCP is fine, if you know how to use it.
 

bigandy

macrumors G3
Apr 30, 2004
8,852
0
Murka
I use Final Cut Studio 2 regularly. I have friends at the BBC that use it all day every day - and I've not heard about a crash or bugs from any. Motion is just phenomenal. FCP6 is great. Could recommend it over any other editing suite.


Personally i think the Student vers of FCP should be watermarked, that would solve the problem.
In a word, no. That is a horrific idea. Student film quality is improving vastly, with a lot of help from Apple and FCS. I ran the TV station at my university, and couldn't think of a worse deal with that. FCS improved the quality of our output tenfold - if it had been watermarked, there'd have been no hope - we just wouldn't have bothered with Mac based systems at all. Many student tv stations around the UK (and probably further afield) would have done the same.

Apple's strength in this is seeing that getting students roped in to FCS is a good thing - like a bank account grabbing freshers - rope them in, make them happy, and they'll stay for a long time. Not cheapening a good product (that students pay a huge amount of their expendable cash for) by capping it's output quality or watermarking.
 

killr_b

macrumors 6502a
Oct 21, 2005
816
338
Suckerfornia
I NEVER said Apple would try and sue you. Please don't try and feed words into my mouth. I simply said that you could be breaking the contract. It's more of a moral thing than a legal thing.
No, breaking a contract is a legal thing.

You made it pretty clear what your views were, and the breaking of the contract was defined in your post.
I didn't put words in your mouth. You were talking about breaking a legal agreement. What usually comes next?

But anyway, I don't know why you bothered to respond since your point was fictitious. There's no point in responding to a counter point of a BS argument. The counter point is just moot anyway…:rolleyes:
 

sal

macrumors 6502
Oct 13, 2007
349
0
Can anyone comment on how FCS2 runs on leopard? Are there any bugs/problems?
 

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