Is Final Cut Studio 2 really that horrendous?

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by iViking, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. iViking macrumors 6502

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    Oct 23, 2006
    #1
    Hi,

    I am writing a feature film that I'm going to shoot next Spring and I want to get Final Cut Studio now so I know it fairly well by the time I'm ready to edit next Spring/early Summer.

    I am going to get the cheaper Academic version, which is not upgradeable, so I'm wondering if there's a new version of Final Cut Studio in the near future that I should hold out for, (since technically I don't need it until the Spring), and mainly because I've read and heard that Final Cut Studio 2 is insanely buggy and hard to use.

    Is it really that bad? Is there an upgrade in the works?

    (I heard that Motion was improved in FCS2 but that Final Cut Pro 6 is super buggy and painful to use.)

    Please advise,

    Thanks!
     
  2. pdpfilms macrumors 68020

    pdpfilms

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    #2
    Sounds like B.S. to me. I've had no issues with FCS2 (so far as my hardware's functioning correctly). Go ahead and get it, don't worry about an upgrade... won't come for another year and a half most likely.

    Also, keep in mind that the academic version does not allow profit from media created within the software. Could get you in trouble down the road if your film got picked up.
     
  3. iViking thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Oct 23, 2006
    #3
    Thanks a lot for the info about how it won't be upgraded for at least a year. That's all I needed. I know I want the program so if it works fine now and won't be revised next week, I'm sold.

    As for the profit thing--I don't see what the problem is as long as I buy it legally or whatever as a student, which I am.

    I would hazard to guess that they wouldn't bring a lawsuit against me if the film did well--they'd probably promote the fact that it was edited and colored in FCP.

    I could be wrong.

    Thanks again!
     
  4. irmongoose macrumors 68030

    irmongoose

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    #4
    That would be such an ******* thing to do. I'd be very surprised if anyone bothered to look into that, though. I mean, seriously, I think Apple lawyers have better things to do than to scout film festivals and check whether or not filmmakers have used academic versions of Final Cut.


    irmongoose
     
  5. P-Worm macrumors 68020

    P-Worm

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    #5
    Just because you won't get caught doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

    P-Worm
     
  6. irmongoose macrumors 68030

    irmongoose

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    #6
    Right thing to do!? Are you suggesting that just because the stupid EULA says something it mandates what is morally right and wrong? It's not like you're stealing the thing!


    irmongoose
     
  7. MacFan25863 macrumors 6502a

    MacFan25863

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    #7
    If you purchase the academic version, you agree to a number of restrictions Apple puts in place...the first being that it is for academic, non-profit work only. If you plan on making money off your film and want to do it without breaking the contract you agreed to when you installed the software, purchase the full version. Apple gives students the discount because they know they can't afford to purchase the version because they don't make money off their work, make sense?

    As for bugs in FCS2, the only problem I've encountered is that I can never seem to be able to print to tape (which really isn't a big deal now since I've moved purely to HD using P2 cards instead of tapes, but could be an issue if you are dealing with MiniDV.
     
  8. iViking thread starter macrumors 6502

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    Oct 23, 2006
    #8
    And what would you do if you made a student film in school and it ended up being profitable? Buy a new copy of FCS2 after you've finished with the edit? Even if you did that, it wouldn't change the fact that you edited the now-profitable student project, while in school, on an academic copy of the program.
     
  9. spacepower7 macrumors 68000

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    May 6, 2004
    #9
    I knew that Avid restricted the use of their Academic software to not-for-profit projects, but I thought that Apple and Final Cut had no such policy. I remember that being a selling point when Final Cut Pro 3.0 came out, and we purchased a lab full.

    I don't see Apple taking the Avid approach, so I would verify with someone at Apple.
     
  10. evil_santa macrumors 6502a

    evil_santa

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    #10
    Personally i think the Student vers of FCP should be watermarked, that would solve the problem.

    From the FCP2 studio, i dont have it yet so dont know how buggy it is, FCS1 has it own share of problems.

    For the difficult to use part, depends on your experience, if you not done any editing before, it might be a steep learning curve, if you have done a lot of editing in other software it should be intuitive.

    If you are not interested in Motion or DVD studio, you could save yourself even more money and get FCE
     
  11. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

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    #11
     
  12. pdpfilms macrumors 68020

    pdpfilms

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    #12
    I should eat my hat.

    I had always heard that academic licenses of apple software limited the use of your own media. But lo and behold, after searching for Apple EULAs, it seems this clause exists only in myth. For instance, read the following excerpt from the FCS2 EULA posted on apple's website:

    No mention whatsoever of usage... simply user requirements to purchase the software. I think Adobe might have restrictions on content usage, which may be where the rumor stemmed from. But either way, a limited usage clause is completely missing from the FCS2 EULA. I think that's pretty conclusive evidence that profit is fair game, from a legal standpoint anyway.
     
  13. seany916 macrumors 6502

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    #13
    The issue about academic version is your business.

    As far as Studio 2 being buggy, it's been exactly the same as it was before, reliable for the most part, but save, save, save & back your sTUFF up onto other hard drives. The FCP files are really, really small.
     
  14. Father Jack macrumors 68020

    Father Jack

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    #14
    If you believe that, you will believe anything .. :rolleyes:

    Lots of students make money from making wedding video's etc. while in college.
     
  15. JohnMC macrumors 6502

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    #15
    Having just also read my EULA from my academic copy of FCS2, you may use the software for commercial purposes as long as to stay a student or teacher at any educational institution. Two other things you should know also from the Apple FCS2 EULA are:

    Other than that, have fun.

    JohnMC
     
  16. MacFan25863 macrumors 6502a

    MacFan25863

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    #16
    How would I incriminate myself? I use the full version of Final Cut at home. I only use the academic version on the computers at school...

    I NEVER said Apple would try and sue you. Please don't try and feed words into my mouth. I simply said that you could be breaking the contract. It's more of a moral thing than a legal thing.


    I know...I make for profit videos, as well. But I use the full version of Final Cut.
     
  17. iViking thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Do you know of any problems laying back to tape, (as in MiniDV)?
     
  18. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #18
    Buggy? :confused: Where'd you hear that? It's good enough for a little company I work at named Disney. You'll be fine.

    Edu version is exactly the same function wise too.
     
  19. elvirav macrumors member

    elvirav

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    #19
    Glad to hear that FCS2 is not buggy, and that a little place like Disney likes it! :D

    As for academic vs. full version—well, we've established that students can make a profit from their work, but even if there was a clause about not-for-profit, I would think that it would be morally not too bad if the person bought the full version as soon as they realized that they were going to sell their film. The software company gets their money, after all. Yes, I know it would be morally ambiguous, but I know I personally wouldn't feel too guilty about doing it if it were me.

    But you know, Apple is right not to make such a distinction, because it really is unreasonable. It seems to me that so often the creators of these films have no idea going in whether or not their films will sell. Should they be prohibited from selling a good student film, just because they used educational software (and did not anticipate that it would turn out as well as it did)?
     
  20. iViking thread starter macrumors 6502

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    #20
    LOL--you have no idea how funny your post is, based on the circumstances.

    As a matter of fact, I heard that FCS2 was buggy from another guy who just happens to work at a little company named Disney.

    But then he is an Avid fan and that's how the old Avid boys tend to think, so I should have taken that into consideration.
     
  21. MacFan25863 macrumors 6502a

    MacFan25863

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    #21

    Hahahahaha...Avid on the Mac is by far the buggiest software I have EVER used. Before we switched to Final Cut (2 years ago) we had an Avid setup with one of their DNA hardware devices...we had to reboot the entire computer just to connect an external hard drive, less the mighty Avid be displeased with having to deal with another storage medium.


    :apple: all the way...works much better :D

    As for the miniDV tape issue, for all I know it could just be our hardware setup (Dual PMG5 w/ 2 GB Ram working with Panasonic DVX-100, Pansonic HVX-200, or Sony DVCAM decks)
     
  22. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #22
    Must not be one of the guys I support. We've had little issues with hardware upgrades (always clear the caches first!), but no big issues and not buggy at all IMO. I use it myself BTW. Wouldn't touch AVID anymore with a 10 foot poll unless I had to. Besides the reasons above, it's needlessly complicated.

    FCP is fine, if you know how to use it.
     
  23. bigandy macrumors G3

    bigandy

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    Murka
    #23
    I use Final Cut Studio 2 regularly. I have friends at the BBC that use it all day every day - and I've not heard about a crash or bugs from any. Motion is just phenomenal. FCP6 is great. Could recommend it over any other editing suite.


    In a word, no. That is a horrific idea. Student film quality is improving vastly, with a lot of help from Apple and FCS. I ran the TV station at my university, and couldn't think of a worse deal with that. FCS improved the quality of our output tenfold - if it had been watermarked, there'd have been no hope - we just wouldn't have bothered with Mac based systems at all. Many student tv stations around the UK (and probably further afield) would have done the same.

    Apple's strength in this is seeing that getting students roped in to FCS is a good thing - like a bank account grabbing freshers - rope them in, make them happy, and they'll stay for a long time. Not cheapening a good product (that students pay a huge amount of their expendable cash for) by capping it's output quality or watermarking.
     
  24. killr_b macrumors 6502a

    killr_b

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    #24
    No, breaking a contract is a legal thing.

    You made it pretty clear what your views were, and the breaking of the contract was defined in your post.
    I didn't put words in your mouth. You were talking about breaking a legal agreement. What usually comes next?

    But anyway, I don't know why you bothered to respond since your point was fictitious. There's no point in responding to a counter point of a BS argument. The counter point is just moot anyway…:rolleyes:
     
  25. sal macrumors 6502

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    Oct 13, 2007
    #25
    Can anyone comment on how FCS2 runs on leopard? Are there any bugs/problems?
     

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