Is Golden Gate gonna crap on A18 / 8gb Neo?

[thadoggfather]

unlikely but I do wonder since it’s a much more AI heavy release than Tahoe

Even iPhone 16 which is same SoC is not gonna get the full breadth of ai I think 12gb devices like iPhone 17 and 17 pro will.

I think the neo 2 will do much better

Of course the price is 599 for this device but it might be a little offputting like how series 8 and ultra 1 got axed from watchOS 27

Though neo *will* actually be able to upgrade unlike the watch situation. I dunno just thinking that upgrade cycles for Apple might get more brutal to encourage more frequent upgrades… don’t shoot the philosopher messenger 😛

 

[iObama]

It won't get the full suite of AI features, but if anything, I feel like GG will help the Neo. (That is, if the "modern Snow Leopard" thing turns out to be true.)

 

[conmee]

Current Neo should do fine with GG. As @iObama mentions, it looks like Neo won't be able to run some of the advanced on-device AI due to not having 12GB memory. But from what I can gather, whatever local AI feature those devices can't run, there will be equivalent features that run in the Cloud. So it shouldn't feel like Neo is missing anything, just that certain features will rely on cloud compute.

I'm sure it's just because it's a beta, but slightly higher memory use so far with GG on my M5 Pro. Usually I'm sitting around 10GB memory used at boot and GG sits around 12GB memory at boot. Also, just having Safari with four tabs and Mail open, I'm at 20GB. No swap or compressed memory yet (64GB total on my system). Before rebooting, I also had Affinity Photo, Photos, Music and an Excel sheet opened and my used memory was 50GB and 14GB cached. So GG will find a use for all 64GB it seems (but this happened on occasion with Tahoe and Sequoia as well).

So far GG feels about as responsive as Tahoe. It doesn't feel like a lightweight or optimized OS. However, maybe there are improvements that make GG more responsive for Neo and Macs with less memory, but as far as M5 Pro with 64GB it feels the same.

 

[galad]

macOS 26 is already crap, it can't be worse.

 

[Andy_2341]

Could we not just turn it off and choose to not use any of the AI? That way we could just bask in the snow leopard fixes? Or is that option being removed?

 

[Bazza1]

The useless further integration of the "Squirrel!" features of Siri and Apple Intelligence (ever the oxymoron) into more and more of the OS's built-in apps may prove to be a challenge for only 8GB RAM (on computer or in phones) - they better continue to include user-choice On/Off switches for both products.

On the plus side, whenever I pull out (for work, travel or occasional cafe visit) my 2017 MacBook Air - w/ 8GB RAM and Monterey - it often runs more stable than my M2 Mini w/ Tahoe. And that with 95% of the same apps. And no Siri or AI.

Go figure.

 

[ElPaso]

Could we not just turn it off and choose to not use any of the AI? That way we could just bask in the snow leopard fixes? Or is that option being removed?

I would think that it can be turned off. I have Siri and Apple Intelegence "turned off" on my 16e - I don't think Apple would force a user to utilize features they're not interested in.

 

[Bazza1]

...I don't think Apple would force a user to utilize features they're not interested in.

Ha, ha. ha. That's practically Apple's entire raison d'être - producing software and features few are interested in - or even asked for - and then burying their controls deep in the darkest corners of the app or in Settings (with no clear guidance as to what they do), and making them impossible to delete.

The user can pick and choose what 3rd Party apps to download or later delete, but Apple doesn't give users that same benefit.

The average Apple users probably uses (and needs) about 20% of the capabilities of whatever OS (or software) they use, but that doesn't prevent Apple from forcing users to have features they're not interested in.

 

[ElPaso]

Ha, ha. ha. That's practically Apple's entire raison d'être - producing software and features few are interested in - or even asked for - and then burying their controls deep in the darkest corners of the app or in Settings (with no clear guidance as to what they do), and making them impossible to delete.

The user can pick and choose what 3rd Party apps to download or later delete, but Apple doesn't give users that same benefit.

The average Apple users probably uses (and needs) about 20% of the capabilities of whatever OS (or software) they use, but that doesn't prevent Apple from forcing users to have features they're not interested in.

"Forcing users to have features they're not interested in" I completely agree with you. Nevertheless, we're not forced to use them. For spreadsheets and documents on my Neo I use Word & Excel (Microsoft), and Sheets & Docs (Google) instead of the pathetic Apple apps - I use Google's AI (Gemini) and not "Apple Intelligence"; I use Google Drive for backups and documents instead of iCloud; my photos are backed up to Google Photos instead of Apple's app; I turned Siri off. The list is endless. I do use a lot of Apple features though (like Airdrop for example) but the OS does not force me to use them.

So I feel confident that whatever 27 brings to my Eye Phone and the new OS that's coming to my MacBook will "act" the same - I will be able to opt in or out.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Ha, ha. ha. That's practically Apple's entire raison d'être - producing software and features few are interested in - or even asked for - and then burying their controls deep in the darkest corners of the app or in Settings (with no clear guidance as to what they do), and making them impossible to delete.

The user can pick and choose what 3rd Party apps to download or later delete, but Apple doesn't give users that same benefit.

The average Apple users probably uses (and needs) about 20% of the capabilities of whatever OS (or software) they use, but that doesn't prevent Apple from forcing users to have features they're not interested in.

“Forcing users"…that’s the bit that annoys me currently, especially this years intrusive notification-push to macOS 26 and iOS 26.

As it stands:

My M2 MBP is currently getting the logic board replaced and methinks they will adorn it with Tahoe (from Sequia).

Soon I’m having my iP battery replaced and I’ve a gut feeling it too will be returned to me with iOS 26 (from iOS 18).

But we shall see.

 

[Andy_2341]

“Forcing users"…that’s the bit that annoys me currently, especially this years intrusive notification-push to macOS 26 and iOS 26.

As it stands:

My M2 MBP is currently getting the logic board replaced and methinks they will adorn it with Tahoe (from Sequia).

Soon I’m having my iP battery replaced and I’ve a gut feeling it too will be returned to me with iOS 26 (from iOS 18).

But we shall see.

On the upside, at least 27 appears to be a good bit better in most ways and you won't have to spend too long on 26 if they do upgrade them.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

On the upside, at least 27 appears to be a good bit better in most ways and you won't have to spend too long on 26 if they do upgrade them.

It’s an upside and 27 is certainly presented as such. Tbh my 2023 M2 Max with 64GB should run great either way. My hesitance to go beyond iOS 18 with a 13 Mini is more so how it will perform with its 4GB of RAM.

Putting GG and SL in the same paragraph does peak my curiosity. Anacdotely I still have the original 7200 rpm HD from my 2009 MBP (I’m typing on right now) with SL on it. Soooo…I’ll be able to compare both side-by-side 😅

 

[mittencuh]

“Forcing users"…that’s the bit that annoys me currently, especially this years intrusive notification-push to macOS 26 and iOS 26.

As it stands:

My M2 MBP is currently getting the logic board replaced and methinks they will adorn it with Tahoe (from Sequia).

Soon I’m having my iP battery replaced and I’ve a gut feeling it too will be returned to me with iOS 26 (from iOS 18).

But we shall see.

They won't touch the software on either, no worries.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

They won't touch the software on either, no worries.

Hopefully, as I’d still like to make that choice. It is after all an option on those current devices.

You know I did request the OS remaining to be ”as was" and was met with the response that they’ve made a "note" but cannot guarantee.

As the repairs on the MBP are extensive, it was sent to Apple’s repair Center instead of being worked on in-store, so I’m guessing they’re covering their bases.

Twelve days and the logic board hasn’t turned up yet. Ahh the joys of a BTO.

 

[GMShadow]

I've got the beta loaded on my travel MacBook, a M1 13" Pro which is roughly equivalent to the Neo, and it feels fine so far. This is very much a Snow Leopard release - I would expect Neo owners won't have any complaints this fall.

 

[chars1ub0w]

The next Neo with 12GB will run full macOS, but not this 8GB one.

There are two kinds of models being run. One is on-device and specific to you, the other runs on Apple's Private Cloud Compute farm (the 1.2 trillion parameter big models) and is generic.

The on-device local models are 20B parameter big, MoE-style (not dense) so they don't require all 20B in RAM. Still, the 8GB won't support this. If I understand things correctly, you can't say - no problem, my Neo is too small, let's farm out all Apple Intelligence stuff to the servers on Private Cloud Compute.

The reason might be that Personal Context (your pictures, your emails, content of your files etc.) stay on device for security/privacy. So only the on-device model can make use of Personal = Private Context. It's a security risk and a logistic nightmare to export Personal Context into the Cloud - plus if everyone did that, it'd take lots of memory per user, never mind bandwidth, connection reliability, etc. for uploading and updating.

Plus as new capabilities after Golden Gate emerge taking more memory, you can be sure the 8GB model will be quickly hobbled compared to larger ones.

 

[m1maverick]

Soon I’m having my iP battery replaced and I’ve a gut feeling it too will be returned to me with iOS 26 (from iOS 18).

But we shall see.

Back in December Apple replaced the battery in my iPhone 12 running iOS 17. They did not upgrade the OS.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Back in December Apple replaced the battery in my iPhone 12 running iOS 17. They did not upgrade the OS.

Good to hear and thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Andy_2341]

Plus as new capabilities after Golden Gate emerge taking more memory, you can be sure the 8GB model will be quickly hobbled compared to larger ones.

Why quickly hobbled? Considering most people (or at least the target audience) use it like an iPad with a keyboard attached I think it will last an equivalent amount of time all things being considered. The 9th gen iPad is going on 5 years of support with much less ram and a less capable chip. It is still sufficient for many tasks. I think the Neo will at least get that many years of useful life and support.

 

[chars1ub0w]

Why quickly hobbled?

Because it's clear macOS will start to receive much new and useful functionality that cannot be done on the cloud for privacy/security reasons. It'll be on-device AI dependent, meaning the Apple Foundation Models (20B parameter AI) will be able to do useful things with your Personal Context without sharing information with Apple. It's all going to require more RAM to work.

 

[gnomeisland]

The next Neo with 12GB will run full macOS, but not this 8GB one.

There are two kinds of models being run. One is on-device and specific to you, the other runs on Apple's Private Cloud Compute farm (the 1.2 trillion parameter big models) and is generic.

The on-device local models are 20B parameter big, MoE-style (not dense) so they don't require all 20B in RAM. Still, the 8GB won't support this. If I understand things correctly, you can't say - no problem, my Neo is too small, let's farm out all Apple Intelligence stuff to the servers on Private Cloud Compute.

The reason might be that Personal Context (your pictures, your emails, content of your files etc.) stay on device for security/privacy. So only the on-device model can make use of Personal = Private Context. It's a security risk and a logistic nightmare to export Personal Context into the Cloud - plus if everyone did that, it'd take lots of memory per user, never mind bandwidth, connection reliability, etc. for uploading and updating.

Plus as new capabilities after Golden Gate emerge taking more memory, you can be sure the 8GB model will be quickly hobbled compared to larger ones.

There are actually two local models, the more robust 20 B parameter MOE style will not run on 8 GB but the smaller dense model will.

 

[boppin]

I remember when Mavericks came out. Installed on old MacBook. Did run incredibly fast. RAM: 4 GB.

And yes, Golden Gate will run perfectly on the MacBook Neo as well on "low" RAM machines.

 

[Andy_2341]

There are actually two local models, the more robust 20 B parameter MOE style will not run on 8 GB but the smaller dense model will.

That's actually very nice that they made two models.

Because it's clear macOS will start to receive much new and useful functionality that cannot be done on the cloud for privacy/security reasons. It'll be on-device AI dependent, meaning the Apple Foundation Models (20B parameter AI) will be able to do useful things with your Personal Context without sharing information with Apple. It's all going to require more RAM to work.

Personally, I'm not sure if I really want the personal context awareness, even if it's on device.

 

[snipr125]

Why quickly hobbled? Considering most people (or at least the target audience) use it like an iPad with a keyboard attached I think it will last an equivalent amount of time all things being considered. The 9th gen iPad is going on 5 years of support with much less ram and a less capable chip. It is still sufficient for many tasks. I think the Neo will at least get that many years of useful life and support.

Yep this is the best way to use the MBN, like a base iPad with a keyboard attached but running Mac OS, instead of iPad OS. If you manage your expectations like this, no one will be disappointed with it going forward.

 

[Andy_2341]

Yep this is the best way to use the MBN, like a base iPad with a keyboard attached but running Mac OS, instead of iPad OS. If you manage your expectations like this, no one will be disappointed with it going forward.

Exactly. Just the fact that it is MacOS makes it more capable than iPadOS which is what lots of people like myself want. I only ever had a MBA because it was the only option when I decided I needed more capability and screen space than my iPad mini 6 could provide. The Neo brought back the iPad like feeling to me with how the screen bezel is and how it is sized, while keeping the productivity enhancements of MacOS.