Is iOS Mac OS XI?

[LarryC]

It seems like the point of this thread is to get people upset over changes that are being made to OS X.

Patrick, you do know what happens when you assume... you make an ass out of yourself. Now calm down and try, just try to understand what I am saying here. I am sure that a lot of people who use and have used OS X since it was first introduced, have wondered what will come after OS X. How different it will be and what type of technologies might accompany it. Now we have iOS, and it is indeed very different. Apple has put a huge amount of time and money into the development of iOS. I was, and am, simply wondering if iOS might be the direction that apple takes when it comes to the operating systems of apple computers. That is all. Now, if this upsets you, then don't click onto the link that takes you to this thread. We have all heard you. bedifferent has alteady given you some excellent advice. Take it.

 

[3282868]

lol

I'll take it.

IGNORED.

I don't know you, and you don't know me; so I won't make any assumptions regarding you. However, your comments seem to take this issue very personally towards a number of individuals and don't bring anything to the discussion other than inappropriate and immature conjecture. I've stated clear facts (Post #12 for one reference) regarding Apple's discontinuation of business products that individuals such as myself (and many others before the surge of iPhone fashionista's) have depended on for our living. Apple has made strides in their stocks and corporate status, but this rise began well before the iPhone and iOS was released. From 1996-2007* while under Steve Jobs' helm, Jobs continued Apple's successful direction in the desktop market by improving and selling Power systems and Pro-applications more than a decade before iPhones and iOS, and gained ground with Power systems, eMacs, Final Cut Pro and other app's, with no iPhone or consumer market. Stating that iOS and iDevices are the reason Apple is doing so well is erroneous as Apple was doing extremely well before the iPhone launch in 2007. Having worked at Apple from 2005-2008, I can assure you that sales for Mac's were doing quite without the average consumer market and could have continued to do just well with the ADDITION of the consumer market, not at the cost of DROPPING the Professional market. Thus, it is incorrect to state that Power users did not factor into Apple's success.

Apple made (and makes) a fantastic OS and hardware line. However, their dramatic shift away from professional and business class products is apparent in both their hardware line and the current beta's for OS X 10.7. Adding consumer features is great, however it comes at the cost of neglecting professional features such as OpenGL 3.2+, R.I., an improved Finder (HFS+ is becoming antiquated), not to mention the lack of stellar hardware that was the gold standard for many (such as the display line, affordable PowerMac's, etc.). I have as well as others made these statements yet instead of civil and factual discourse you post such comments (which states more about you than us).

If you don't have anything productive to state, don't state anything at all

*"1998–2005: Return to profitability" in Apple Inc.
In 1996, Apple announced that it would buy NeXT for $429 million. The deal was finalized in late 1996, bringing Jobs back to the company he had co-founded. He soon became Apple's interim CEO after the directors lost confidence in and ousted then-CEO Gil Amelio in a boardroom coup. In March 1998, to concentrate Apple's efforts on returning to profitability, Jobs immediately terminated a number of projects such as Newton, Cyberdog, and OpenDoc. In the coming months, many employees developed a fear of encountering Jobs while riding in the elevator, "afraid that they might not have a job when the doors opened. The reality was that Jobs' summary executions were rare, but a handful of victims was enough to terrorize a whole company." Jobs also changed the licensing program for Macintosh clones, making it too costly for the manufacturers to continue making machines.

 

[Patrick946]

Patrick, you do know what happens when you assume... you make an ass out of yourself. Now calm down and try, just try to understand what I am saying here. I am sure that a lot of people who use and have used OS X since it was first introduced, have wondered what will come after OS X. How different it will be and what type of technologies might accompany it. Now we have iOS, and it is indeed very different. Apple has put a huge amount of time and money into the development of iOS. I was, and am, simply wondering if iOS might be the direction that apple takes when it comes to the operating systems of apple computers. That is all. Now, if this upsets you, then don't click onto the link that takes you to this thread. We have all heard you. bedifferent has alteady given you some excellent advice. Take it.

I don't know why you think I'm upset, I just stated that I disagreed with the premise of this thread. Now bedifferent has told me to get out of this thread and you called me an ass, neither of which is very civil. I think that I put forth a pretty good argument, maybe you should respond to it instead of lashing out at me.

I get the impression that apple is more interested in the iOS products than the Mac products.

That's 100% true, and it's because iOS products are making them more money. None of the iOS products are more than a few years old, and they're already easily outselling macs. However, at the same time mac sales are increasing also and they are still introducing new models (macbook air) and new operating systems (OS X Lion). iOS is designed for small touchscreen devices, and would not be useful on a home computer. Likewise, small touchscreen devices are not yet powerful enough to replace a home computer.

I do not agree with him about desktops being a small niche. This contradicts his comment about being paid for producing. How are these people going to produce content on low-powered devices with small screens? This also contradicts his comment made a few years ago that desktops will never go away.

The question was about the future, not the present. he said that desktops will still be around in the future (agreeing with his comment about them not going away), but they would eventually be more of a niche product, like a truck. Trucks are used by those who need to carry heavy loads, and desktop computers will be used by those who need more power for their work. He is not talking about the present, and he is not talking about the near future either. presumably, if we get to a point where average consumers are willing to give up desktop computers, it will be because touch screen computers are powerful/capable enough to do everything the average consumer wants.

Remember, in the end it is consumers who decide what Apple makes. When Apple makes a product that sells poorly, they inevitably go back and redesign it. They learn from their mistakes, and they don't kill off popular products unless they are replacing it with a superior analog.

 

[3282868]

Remember, in the end it is consumers who decide what Apple makes.

You must be new to Apple. If you know anything about Steve Jobs, this statement is the antithesis of Apple's philosophy.

Just one of many Jobs' comments:

In an article from today’s New York Times , Steve Jobs makes one of the simplest, strongest cases for not testing creative I’ve seen in a long time. When asked what consumer and market research Apple does to guide the development of new products, Jobs replied: “None. It isn’t the consumers’ job to know what they want.”

Ref: Consumers Don’t Know What They Want

Jobs doesn't listen to consumers or makes any decisions based on consumers' needs, Jobs' philosophy is that HE knows and decides what consumers want.

 

[JordanNZ]

Apple made (and makes) a fantastic OS and hardware line. However, their dramatic shift away from professional and business class products is apparent in both their hardware line and the current beta's for OS X 10.7. Adding consumer features is great, however it comes at the cost of neglecting professional features such as OpenGL 3.2+, R.I., an improved Finder (HFS+ is becoming antiquated), not to mention the lack of stellar hardware that was the gold standard for many (such as the display line, affordable PowerMac's, etc.). I have as well as others made these statements yet instead of civil and factual discourse you post such comments (which states more about you than us).

Eh?
OpenGL 3.2 is in Lion....
How is it being neglected?

 

[dethmaShine]

I don't know you, and you don't know me; so I won't make any assumptions regarding you. However, your comments seem to take this issue very personally towards a number of individuals and don't bring anything to the discussion other than inappropriate and immature conjecture. I've stated clear facts (Post #12 for one reference) regarding Apple's discontinuation of business products that individuals such as myself (and many others before the surge of iPhone fashionista's) have depended on for our living. Apple has made strides in their stocks and corporate status, but this rise began well before the iPhone and iOS was released. From 1996-2007* while under Steve Jobs' helm, Jobs continued Apple's successful direction in the desktop market by improving and selling Power systems and Pro-applications more than a decade before iPhones and iOS, and gained ground with Power systems, eMacs, Final Cut Pro and other app's, with no iPhone or consumer market. Stating that iOS and iDevices are the reason Apple is doing so well is erroneous as Apple was doing extremely well before the iPhone launch in 2007. Having worked at Apple from 2005-2008, I can assure you that sales for Mac's were doing quite without the average consumer market and could have continued to do just well with the ADDITION of the consumer market, not at the cost of DROPPING the Professional market. Thus, it is incorrect to state that Power users did not factor into Apple's success.

Apple made (and makes) a fantastic OS and hardware line. However, their dramatic shift away from professional and business class products is apparent in both their hardware line and the current beta's for OS X 10.7. Adding consumer features is great, however it comes at the cost of neglecting professional features such as OpenGL 3.2+, R.I., an improved Finder (HFS+ is becoming antiquated), not to mention the lack of stellar hardware that was the gold standard for many (such as the display line, affordable PowerMac's, etc.). I have as well as others made these statements yet instead of civil and factual discourse you post such comments (which states more about you than us).

If you don't have anything productive to state, don't state anything at all

*"1998–2005: Return to profitability" in Apple Inc.
In 1996, Apple announced that it would buy NeXT for $429 million. The deal was finalized in late 1996, bringing Jobs back to the company he had co-founded. He soon became Apple's interim CEO after the directors lost confidence in and ousted then-CEO Gil Amelio in a boardroom coup. In March 1998, to concentrate Apple's efforts on returning to profitability, Jobs immediately terminated a number of projects such as Newton, Cyberdog, and OpenDoc. In the coming months, many employees developed a fear of encountering Jobs while riding in the elevator, "afraid that they might not have a job when the doors opened. The reality was that Jobs' summary executions were rare, but a handful of victims was enough to terrorize a whole company." Jobs also changed the licensing program for Macintosh clones, making it too costly for the manufacturers to continue making machines.

OMG.

You took my post in an entirely different sense.

I was with you stating that Apple did change its focus. Although they haven't completely neglected the Macintosh line of products.

What I meant was, when you said:

30 years of computer sales and Apple went nowhere.

Any one want to take this one?

That's why I said. I'll ignore that quote. Simple.

As for your comments regarding my comments, I don't hate any one on this forum, but there are people who just throw comments with absolutely no explanation and reasoning.

I have seen LarryC being sarcastic but most of the times, hating on any Apple subject for that matter. Whether, apple fans standing in line or whether its the iPhone selling more than it should.

If my comments sound immature, then I don't know how you would categorise comments by these individuals.
Surely, it says a lot about me, but when you hear a person saying the same thing over and over, it takes a toll and some body's gotta give up.

Again, I was with you on that statement which you interpreted in a rather negative way.

 

[talmy]

Jobs doesn't listen to consumers or makes any decisions based on consumers' needs, Jobs' philosophy is that HE knows and decides what consumers want.

It's been my experience that customers don't know what they want when it comes to new technologies. Customers want what they already have, only less expensive!

Innovation comes from people like Jobs who will take risks on new products based on "gut" feelings. And he isn't always right. Some products have flopped. The customers do have the ultimate decision to buy or not.

 

[Patrick946]

You must be new to Apple. If you know anything about Steve Jobs, this statement is the antithesis of Apple's philosophy.

Innovation comes from people like Jobs who will take risks on new products based on "gut" feelings. And he isn't always right. Some products have flopped. The customers do have the ultimate decision to buy or not.

^yes, Talmy's point is what I was getting at. Steve Jobs can ignore the media and ignore what customer's say, but ultimately it's the public's money that decides what products get made. Remember when Apple decided that the iPod Shuffle didn't need buttons? Sales went way down, and a year later there was a new model with buttons on it. If Apple was to come out with a mac that actually ran on iOS, it would do terribly and they would bring back OS X.

Right now all they're doing is adding some iOS like features to OS X to capitalize on the popularity of their phones and tablets. This thread is based on the premise that Apple will take functionality away from iOS, and I don't see that as a possibility in the near term.

 

[Yamcha]

Eh?
OpenGL 3.2 is in Lion....
How is it being neglected?

Lion should've had support for Open GL 4.0, Windows 7 has had support for it for quite a while..

 

[JordanNZ]

Lion should've had support for Open GL 4.0, Windows 7 has had support for it for quite a while..

But... The poster I was quoting stated that Opengl was being neglected (and should have 3.2), and yet Lion DOES have 3.2.... The only significant feature 4 offers is hardware tessellation (on supported cards).

 

[LarryC]

Quote: "and you called me an ass, neither of which is very civil..." My sincerest apology. I am sorry. The main reason that I have resurrected this thread is because I was reading a more current thread and it reminded me of this one that was from a ways back and I was just curious to see what some people were saying here in this thread before some recent events/changes. Again, Patrick946, I am truly sorry for being an ass, myself and saying what I said.

I don't know why you think I'm upset, I just stated that I disagreed with the premise of this thread. Now bedifferent has told me to get out of this thread and you called me an ass, neither of which is very civil. I think that I put forth a pretty good argument, maybe you should respond to it instead of lashing out at me.



That's 100% true, and it's because iOS products are making them more money. None of the iOS products are more than a few years old, and they're already easily outselling macs. However, at the same time mac sales are increasing also and they are still introducing new models (macbook air) and new operating systems (OS X Lion). iOS is designed for small touchscreen devices, and would not be useful on a home computer. Likewise, small touchscreen devices are not yet powerful enough to replace a home computer.



The question was about the future, not the present. he said that desktops will still be around in the future (agreeing with his comment about them not going away), but they would eventually be more of a niche product, like a truck. Trucks are used by those who need to carry heavy loads, and desktop computers will be used by those who need more power for their work. He is not talking about the present, and he is not talking about the near future either. presumably, if we get to a point where average consumers are willing to give up desktop computers, it will be because touch screen computers are powerful/capable enough to do everything the average consumer wants.

Remember, in the end it is consumers who decide what Apple makes. When Apple makes a product that sells poorly, they inevitably go back and redesign it. They learn from their mistakes, and they don't kill off popular products unless they are replacing it with a superior analog.

 

[LarryC]

I do hope that you are correct about that.

^yes, Talmy's point is what I was getting at. Steve Jobs can ignore the media and ignore what customer's say, but ultimately it's the public's money that decides what products get made. Remember when Apple decided that the iPod Shuffle didn't need buttons? Sales went way down, and a year later there was a new model with buttons on it. If Apple was to come out with a mac that actually ran on iOS, it would do terribly and they would bring back OS X.

Right now all they're doing is adding some iOS like features to OS X to capitalize on the popularity of their phones and tablets. This thread is based on the premise that Apple will take functionality away from iOS, and I don't see that as a possibility in the near term.

 

[WSR]

IOS is designed for small systems and those who don't want to think about file management. As such it is very limited. Yes, it will grow and be able to do more in the future, but you can only do so much if you don't understand file, folders, etc.

Jobs did say that PC's, i.e. desktops and laptops, will always be around, and he is right. I just think it will be a much larger percentage than he thinks. Simply put, there are a lot of geeks and others out there that would be limited by any version on IOS.

Apple NEEDS to keep the functionality of MacOS, like Spaces and Expose as it is in Snow Leopard, while developing simpler interfaces, like Mission Control, for those that need it. One of the signs of a great operating system is one that can be used in different ways depending on what is best for that user. Note that using a command line like Terminal is still around.

 

[talmy]

IOS is designed for small systems and those who don't want to think about file management. As such it is very limited. Yes, it will grow and be able to do more in the future, but you can only do so much if you don't understand file, folders, etc.

All you really have to understand is a "file" is a document or other piece of data (photo, video, audio recording, web location...). Folders have always been an abstraction of a way to group files. Apple lead the way in giving these graphical representation. And 99% of computer users don't need to know (or even want to know) anything beyond that.

What really gets me about iOS versus OS X is that when the iPhone first came out Jobs said it had Mac OS X in it. And now everyone is afraid that Apple will abandon Mac OS X for iOS! iOS is a somewhat de-featured OS X with a different GUI on top, one oriented toward small touch screens.

Jobs did say that PC's, i.e. desktops and laptops, will always be around, and he is right. I just think it will be a much larger percentage than he thinks. Simply put, there are a lot of geeks and others out there that would be limited by any version on IOS.

I expect it will be a smaller percentage than YOU think. Lets consider another pervasive technology, automobiles. 100+ years ago only enthusiasts had them, and every owner had to be his own mechanic! Now days most people know little to nothing about how their cars work and few can repair them, but even fewer want to go back to the days of being a mechanic. Same is true for computers. People want a box that does what they need to do, and do it reliably. For most people an iPad really does offer what they need, and the hands off nature helps greatly in keeping it reliable.

Apple NEEDS to keep the functionality of MacOS, like Spaces and Expose as it is in Snow Leopard, while developing simpler interfaces, like Mission Control, for those that need it. One of the signs of a great operating system is one that can be used in different ways depending on what is best for that user. Note that using a command line like Terminal is still around.

I think it is a case of compromises. I wish they could have kept the old spaces/expose/full screen operation around as an option. The new Mission Control/Lion full screen is a big loss for my iMac with a second monitor. However most Mac sales come from 11" and 13" MacBook models and the changes are a boon there.

And even on my iMac I can still use it in different ways (as you state). And I can (and do) have numerous Virtual Machines and run Windows and Linux apps as well as OS X apps.

 

[gentlefury]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdbvAdINPPA

Go to 3:51 in this video.

He never said iOS is the future...just post pc....Lion is a large step in that direction! I have an iPad and love it...but I just bought a MacBook Air, because I think Lion is the step in the right direction that Mac needed to be more portable friendly! I would say the next step is a lion tablet! Which is what I've been wanting for a while...but it just seems far enough away that I finally bought an air rather than wait any longer.

 

[gentlefury]

I expect it will be a smaller percentage than YOU think. Lets consider another pervasive technology, automobiles. 100+ years ago only enthusiasts had them, and every owner had to be his own mechanic! Now days most people know little to nothing about how their cars work and few can repair them, but even fewer want to go back to the days of being a mechanic. Same is true for computers. People want a box that does what they need to do, and do it reliably. For most people an iPad really does offer what they need, and the hands off nature helps greatly in keeping it reliable.

But iOS is different...its more like having a bike..sure it will get you around, but its not really practical for long term applications (and while attempting to be easier to deal with, it can actually be quite tiring!)

I think Mac OSX has always been about making the user experience first and foremost....the settings are easy to understand and right there in front of you...there is little backend that needs to be done. In the case of the car analogy. iOS is like having a car that is more like a BMW, if you do need to work on it, you can't do it yourself without special tools.

While I don't want to NEED to be a mechanic to run my computer, it is a good thing to be able to peek under the hood from time to time!

 

[*LTD*]

I think the title pretty much says it all. This does seem to be the direction that apple is heading.

Pretty much.