Is iPad's problem iOS?

Discussion in 'iPad' started by jasnw, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. jasnw macrumors 6502a

    jasnw

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    Nov 15, 2013
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    Seattle Area (NOT! Microsoft)
    #1
    This article over at ZDNet pretty much sums up my feelings about the iPad, particularly the Pro:
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-is-right-the-ipad-is-a-kids-toy/

    I have tried to use the iPad (I've owned four) over the years as more than just a reader of stuff, but the limitations of iOS make it pretty much useless to me for the other things I do. The article suggests that maybe Apple should put macOS on the Pro, which would certainly make me take a second look at it. I will be looking for a new laptop in the next year or two, and something like an iPad Pro running macOS would be nice.
     
  2. Mr.Blacky macrumors 6502

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    Austria
    #2
    Such bullcrap! After seeing the link, I won't even bother clicking on it and read the article.
     
  3. wittyphrase macrumors regular

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    Jan 6, 2017
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    New York
    #3
    I mean, sure. General feeling seems to be software is whats holding it back. That article is really reductive, so I can’t say I agree with it entirely. There are some specific tasks the iPad simply can’t perform. There are some that require a lot of workarounds. And then there are some it handles perfectly well. Pick the right tool for the job. It doesn’t need to be everything for everybody.

    I’m not a six year old. I’m a working professional and I use it every single day to get work done. If it had a different OS, maybe some hybrid OS with a real file system, multiple instances of the same app, etc I could be more productive with it, yea.
     
  4. ericwn macrumors 68030

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    Apr 24, 2016
    #4
    The article is just an opinion piece though, it lacks any detail why one is to be preferred. The author could at least have provided real world examples of his workflow instead of just hyperbole and general statements.

    I’m all for a critical discussion and to push the platform forward in a pleasant manner, but just plainly saying one is better than the other is lousy journalism.
     
  5. jasnw thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jasnw

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    Nov 15, 2013
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    Seattle Area (NOT! Microsoft)
    #5
    OK, so the article is snarky (what do you expect from ZDNet about an Apple product?), but for me it's a real issue. I will not buy another iPad until it's a serious replacement for a laptop. To me that means a grown-up OS.
     
  6. secretk macrumors 6502

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    Oct 19, 2018
    #6
    I agree with this. I am not a fan of iOS so it's not like I am triggered because I love iPad Pro, iOS or Apple. I am not as iOS does not work for me. I have explained enough here why it does not work for me. However when someone writes an article to claim such things they should be a bit more specific. As it is, it's just a bunch of opinions without any substantial background.
     
  7. coolbreeze2, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018

    coolbreeze2 macrumors 6502a

    coolbreeze2

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    Sep 24, 2009
    #7
    iPad could use some improvements but is still better than any tablet running Windows or Android. What my iPad won’t do my MacBook Pro does and vice versa. If you don’t like the Apple ecosystem don’t buy into it and don’t visit a Mac forum. And all the people said, “Amen”.
     
  8. DNichter macrumors G3

    DNichter

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    Apr 27, 2015
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    #8
    I guess it depends what you want from the device. iOS on the iPad works as it’s meant to. Can it be improved through new features? Absolutely. Tons of improvements will come to the platform, but I wouldn’t consider it a problem. In the end, use the best tool for the job. If that’s not an iPad, that’s okay too. I didn’t read the article though as ZDNet is trash.
     
  9. Codeseven macrumors 6502a

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    Dec 31, 2008
    #9
    Ah, kinda old news. It’s been pointed out many times in the past that the hardware is beyond overkill, perhaps, in preparation for what’s coming? It’s iOS that is definitely holding the iPad back. I get the feeling if I were a fly on the wall of the iOS Developers Lab, I would be blown away by what versions 13, 14 and 15 are capable of doing right now (and then quickly swatted into oblivion!). Why I would get the feeling Apple is holding back, I have no f’n idea.
     
  10. AlexiTQ macrumors member

    AlexiTQ

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    May 22, 2016
    #10
    Comparing the iPad to toys is typical tired old hyperbole.

    It all depends on what you want to do with the device and to what extent you're fine with doing things the Apple way. The iPad's clearly don't work like macOS devices, nor Windows devices. That doesn't mean they're bad nor that you can't get **** done with them.
     
  11. Johnny365 macrumors 6502a

    Johnny365

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    Nov 30, 2015
    #11
    I don't use my iPads for video editing or creation, but for media consumption and heavy web browsing. I wish it had mouse support for web browsing. That would be useful than using your finger to drag text, hopefully it selects the lines you want, and copy/paste.
     
  12. baypharm macrumors 68000

    baypharm

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    Nov 15, 2007
    #12
    The very latest iPad pros when used in conjunction with the Apple Pencil does just this. I use it all the time. Love it.
     
  13. Johnny365 macrumors 6502a

    Johnny365

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    #13
    Same with the prior iPad pros with pencil support. Not the same thing as an actual mouse or touchpad
     
  14. Pakaku macrumors 68020

    Pakaku

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    Aug 29, 2009
    #14
    The article may be an opinion piece, but I agree with the opinion that iOS is the biggest bottleneck. You can agree or disagree with that opinion, but the fact remains that it is not a main choice for me when OSX is a proper desktop option. It does make a good "second monitor" for chatroom apps and Netflix, and an excellent drawing tablet, however.
     
  15. MK500 macrumors member

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    Aug 28, 2009
    #15
    I use iOS on my iPad Pro 10.5” every day for professional work around 6 to 10 hours per day. As a tablet OS it is the best currently available. Multitasking works well, and work can be performed very quickly. Performance and battery life is almost magically good. It is rock solid stable. It’s just way beyond the competition is so many ways.

    There are a few huge holes that Apple needs to patch; mainly the file system. But Apple releases major versions of iOS regularly, so I expect this will get fixed within a year or two at the outside.

    iOS is still the best tablet OS that exists at this point in time. For those that say Windows tablets are better; I still feel the cons massively outweigh the pros. Yes it has a full file system, but it’s quite cludgy to use as a tablet. It’s still clearly a laptop trying to be a tablet, and I don’t think it’s something Microsoft will ever likely be able to fix. It’s just the ancestry they are burdened with (a desktop OS).

    When I read a lot of these reviews one thing always jumps out at me: these do not sound like people who spend many hours per day actually using these devices for work. Ask people who really use them what they think instead of trusting this review.
     
  16. Mark Holmes macrumors member

    Mark Holmes

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    San Diego CA
    #17
    Yes, iOS is what's holding back the iPad. But the advantage Apple has over Microsoft and Chrome, although I don't know if they'll take advantage of it in time, is that it beats everyone else as a tablet. Should they ever add mouse/trackpad support and a proper file system they might suddenly find themselves taking over both desktop and mobile computing. IMHO.
     
  17. AndyMacAndMic, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018

    AndyMacAndMic macrumors 6502a

    AndyMacAndMic

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    #18
    That logic can easily be reversed:
    The advantage that Windows and Chrome have over the iPad (iOS) is that they beat the iPad as a laptop. So the chances seem 50/50 to me. It is simply where ones priority lies. Does one prefer a tablet that tries to be a laptop or vice versa?
     
  18. Greenmeenie macrumors 65816

    Greenmeenie

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    Jan 14, 2013
    #19
    Kids toy? Yeah, not gonna click on that click bate link. Yes, we all can agree, iOS is the area Apple needs to focus on the most now that the hardware is faster than most laptops. But that doesn’t mean the iPad is a kid’s toy. So ridiculous. Wasn’t even gonna respond to this thread because it’s such a tired statement. Professionals are using the iPad now. It’s not a toy, and pointless to debate.

    Having said that, I think it’s valid to keep sending Apple the message about iOS’s shortcomings. The file system. Opening up usb-c to allow proper file transfer and external hard drives. We all know this. And it will happen. Photoshop is coming next year. iOS 13 promises big changes coming. So can we please stop with the toy talk?
     
  19. revmacian macrumors 6502a

    revmacian

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    Oct 20, 2018
    Location:
    USA
    #20
    What would really help is, instead of looking at it as "iPad Pro running macOS would be nice", look at it as "iPad Pro runs iOS so I need to get used to seeing it as an iPad instead of a macOS tablet". Then, if that doesn't work you can return the iPad and buy something that does suit your needs.
     
  20. Donka macrumors 68030

    Donka

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    May 3, 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    #21
    Everyone is clamouring for big changes in iOS 13 including a ‘true file system’ and external storage access via usb-c. Can we be so sure this is going to happen given the markup Apple make on storage tiers?
    The one thing that does support this for me is the availability of third party lightning drives with their associated apps in the App Store.
    Here is hoping it does happen with an open implementation.
     
  21. ApfelKuchen macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2012
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    Between the coasts
    #22
    All articles like that amount to is, "Why can't my dog be a cat?"

    I'd hope people buy things for what they are, rather than what they are not. I wouldn't buy a stretch limo and then complain that it was hard to find a parking space (hint: get a Smart). I wouldn't get a Kitchen Aid mixer and wish it could make frozen daiquiris (hint: get a Waring blender). For that matter, why not wish your significant other had a different natural hair color (hint: just keep your mouth shut)?

    Different tools may demand different workflows. Each will have different capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses. If everything could do everything, then there wouldn't be "everything," there would be just one, universal thing.
     
  22. secretk macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2018
    #23
    For me that is a bit extreme just like claiming that the iPad is a kid's toy is extreme. Apple hinted more than once that those iPad Pros are laptop replacements. So it's fair game for reviewers to compare it to a laptop and to mention whether it is for them or not.

    Yes, end consumers should not buy things they know from the start would not work for them. Reviewers buy quite a lot of stuff to review and they review them against the brand's company and claims. In this case Apple claimed that they created this powerful device that outscores a laptop. The moment I hear this I would think can I use it instead of laptop? It's great that it's powerful but can I actually take advantage of that power? And the answer is no. I am not a digital artist and I don't use Photoshop. I am not editing video or music either. If I need power for my laptop it's because I am Software Development team lead and I need to do actual programming. And that's something this iPad cannot do.

    Then as part of my work I work with a lot with the Microsoft Office suite - mostly word, excel and powerpoint. Can I use them on an iPad? I can install the apps, but I can't use them productively because text editing on iOS is PITA.

    So in the end my conclusion is that for me this so powerful machine would be just a media consumption device. Except that I prefer to consume my media on a better screen and iPad does not play nice with other monitors without having to buy dongles and install paid apps so I would not use it for that either. In other words I see no reason for this device to even exist. There is no compelling software that would take advantage of this powerful hardware. There is nothing that people were unable to do on their old iPad Pros that they can do on this new one.

    That's true but the question for me still remains. Why did Apple made this powerful machine when that power cannot be utilized and used? What's the point in this?
     
  23. NickPhamUK macrumors 6502

    NickPhamUK

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    May 6, 2013
    #24
    Do you expect Apple to make powerful machines first, so that developers will base on that to develop apps accordingly...

    Or...

    Do you expect developers to develop apps first (e.g. Photoshop) and then Apple will make devices to accommodate those apps?

    I'm not a power user, so I bought a cheap iPad 6th gen and use it as a media consumption device. But my needs don't equate to everyone else's needs. Somewhere, right now, maybe some one is editing videos on an iPad Pro :)
     
  24. secretk macrumors 6502

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    Oct 19, 2018
    #25
    If the second generation iPad Pros were slow then yes it makes sense for Apple first to develop the hardware and then for Developers to make the software. That's not the case. Even previous generations of iPad Pros do not get utilized enough because there is no such use case. No one wants a tablet that is more powerful than their powerful laptop machine. No regular person complains about not having powerful enough machine to do their work.

    Also it's not about the Developers making apps, it's about Apple making iOS good enough to allow Developers to improve it. It's not on third party Developers to improve text editing on iOS, it's on Apple. It's not on third party Developers to provide better access to the file system, it's on Apple. And lastly the issues I have with my regular iPad are not because of third party apps, it's because of Apple. Gestures are not intuitive, half of the time I want to get one thing and get another because the gestures do not make sense on such big screen as 9.7 inch. That's not on other Developers to fix, it's on Apple. Settings menu is a complete mess. That's on Apple to fix. Control center is meaningless if it does not redirect to me to the full Settings menu. That's on Apple to fix and not other Developers. There are a lot of things that Apple can fix to make iOS interesting OS and it has nothing to do with power or hardware. This is what people are talking about. Instead of focusing on getting power that people don't need currently, they should focus on improving iOS itself.

    Except that people had no issues editing videos in the second generation of the iPad Pros. My point stands. Apple spends a lot of time improving the power of a device that does not lack power. It lacks software capabilities. And it does not start with third party Developers, it starts with Apple itself making iOS desirable enough so that Developers could invest their time in developing good apps for iOS.

    Look the thing is that the current iOS is at its peak and it works well for using the iPad as a media consumption device and for digital art. Like I said in another thread removing the headphone jack actually made this new iPad Pro even less pro because no one would want to edit music or video with Bluetooth headphones that have latency.

    So Apple wants to push the envelop and do the next thing and they focus on power. What people are saying is that they don't need to focus on power because the current iPads have the needed power (even the previous Pro generations). If they want to push the envelop, they have to improve iOS.

    And this is why there are people saying this more and more. This is their way to send a message to Apple that they need to focus on iOS and not on adding better CPU that most people don't need. Now I get that some people get annoyed by this but this is free country. People that have issues with iOS and its capabilities are free to voice them. Ultimately Apple decides if they will listen and consider those people or not.

    P.S: I bought a regular iPad because this is my first Apple device and I wanted to first see if I will like iOS before giving more money for iPad Pro. I am happy that I bought the cheaper one because iOS is the thing I dislike the most about my iPad. There are so many issues with it. So yeah I am one of those people that would not buy a Pro (no matter how powerful it is) until Apple makes iOS better.
     

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32 December 8, 2018