iPhone 14 Pro is iPhone 14 Pro camera really better over 12 Pro? (aperture)

[Supermallet]

let's hope there's the option for 12 mp proraw images from the main camera as well.

We’ll have to wait and see on Friday, but I suspect the only way to take a 12 MP ProRaw photo will be to use the 2x setting so you’re only using the center 12 MP.

 

[r_123]

We’ll have to wait and see on Friday, but I suspect the only way to take a 12 MP ProRaw photo will be to use the 2x setting so you’re only using the center 12 MP.

yeah... could very well be and i'd really not like that at all. let's hope and see on friday.

 

[DarthBradicus]

You are closer than anyone so far (but still not quite there).

F/stop is the ratio of focal length to aperture size. If you put a larger sensor in a camera and change nothing else, you end up with, effectively, a wider field of view. A wider angle. So to compensate, you put in a lens with a longer focal length. A longer focal length means a lower f/stop if you do not change the aperature.

TL;DR - A larger sensor means a higher f/stop for a given aperture size and field of view. The “f 1.78” aperture on the iPhone 14 would be closer to an f 8 or higher on a full frame camera with a similar field of view, for example.

Which means the lens does not technically perform worse than previous lenses. In fact, I imagine it actually performs a little better and has a slightly wider aperture than before, but not wide enough to keep up with a sensor that is twice as large as the previous generation.

Well, I had to say something since the photographers weren’t showing up. Lol.

 

[Cod3rror]

It will be better, the increase in sensor size isn’t being talked about enough over the aperture change etc…

It’s using the largest sensor you can get on a smartphone, including those that use a 1 inch type sensor, simply because they don’t actually use the full sensor area (they can’t).

Add in improved computational photography, improved lenses and a sensor that is massive compared to that in the 12 Pro, it will be a noticeable improvement… especially if you shoot ProRaw and use the full 48mp file.

Is it confirmed that iPhone 14 Pro's sensor is 1/1.28"? I wonder what sensor is it?

If it's really 1/1.28", they should have definitely mentioned that as one of the specs during the announcement. That's a big sensor.

1" Type sensor on Xiaomi 12S Ultra is being utilized fully, as far as I am aware.

EDIT: Wow, it is 1/1.28"

Your move, Samsung and Google.

 

[r_123]

yeah... could very well be and i'd really not like that at all. let's hope and see on friday.

12mp raws from the 1x confirmed. happy about that. and the 48mp raws look great as well!

 

[Andropov]

You are closer than anyone so far (but still not quite there).

F/stop is the ratio of focal length to aperture size. If you put a larger sensor in a camera and change nothing else, you end up with, effectively, a wider field of view. A wider angle. So to compensate, you put in a lens with a longer focal length. A longer focal length means a lower f/stop if you do not change the aperature.

TL;DR - A larger sensor means a higher f/stop for a given aperture size and field of view. The “f 1.78” aperture on the iPhone 14 would be closer to an f 8 or higher on a full frame camera with a similar field of view, for example.

Which means the lens does not technically perform worse than previous lenses. In fact, I imagine it actually performs a little better and has a slightly wider aperture than before, but not wide enough to keep up with a sensor that is twice as large as the previous generation.

This is more or less correct. I'd be wary of talking about the 'equivalent aperture' on a full frame sensor though. A larger sensor does not, per se, mean that the ƒ number will be higher. The ƒ number is a property of the lens, not the sensor.

The thing is, using the ƒ number to compare the amount of light reaching the sensor only makes sense for lenses with the same image circle radius. The ƒ number is directly related with the amount of light per unit of area. That makes sense for comparing lenses used in full frame and APS-C cameras: all those lenses have the same image circle radius (the one that fits the 35mm sensor).

APS-C cameras just have a smaller sensor that doesn't cover the entire image circle. So that's why you don't get more light when moving from a full frame to an APS-C sensor on the same lens, and you don't have to make conversions to a 'equivalent' ƒ number.

What's happening on phone sensors? Well, since you're not dealing with a system with interchangeable lenses, the lenses themselves are designed to have an image circle that matches the size of the sensor, more or less. So the ƒ numbers still correctly represent the amount of light per unit of area, but the area may have changed.

Let's make an example:

• Phone A has a 1x1cm image sensor, and a lens with a 8mm focal length (real, not 35mm-equivalent), with an image circle with a radius R = 0.5cm, enough to just barely cover the entire sensor. The aperture has a diameter of 5mm. That means a ƒ/1.6 aperture (focal length / aperture diameter = 8mm / 5mm = 1.6).
• Phone B doubles every metric: you want a bigger, 2x2cm sensor. But the lens in Phone A doesn't cover the entire sensor (the image circle is too small), so you design a bigger lens, with 16mm focal length (and an image circle of R = 1cm) so it has the same field of view as before (same 35mm-equivalent focal length). Then, you also decide to give it an aperture of double the diameter: 10mm. That means the ƒ number stays the same: ƒ/1.6 (focal length / aperture diameter = 16mm / 10mm = 1.6).

But it'd be *very* wrong to say that the lens in Phone B let's in the same amount of light as the lens in Phone A. In fact, it lets in *four times* the amount of light in Phone A. The thing that remains constant between both phones is the amount of light per unit of area. But, if both phones had the same resolution, every single pixel in Phone B now receives *four times* more light than Phone A (because the pixels now have four times the area, and the amount of light per unit of area is constant).

What happened between the iPhone 13 Pro and the iPhone 14 Pro is more or less the same. Sensor grew in size (don't know how much), so the lens' focal length also had to, which meant that ƒ number would go up, unless the aperture diameter grew in the same ratio.
It looks like the aperture diameter didn't grow as much, but that doesn't mean the lens captures less light. It likely captures more light now, but it's now spread over a bigger area. That area simply has spread more than the amount of light captured has, so each unit of area receives less light, BUT the area is much bigger, the total amount of light that the lens captures has likely gone up quite a bit.

 

[scrtagntman]

This is more or less correct. I'd be wary of talking about the 'equivalent aperture' on a full frame sensor though. A larger sensor does not, per se, mean that the ƒ number will be higher. The ƒ number is a property of the lens, not the sensor.

The thing is, using the ƒ number to compare the amount of light reaching the sensor only makes sense for lenses with the same image circle radius. The ƒ number is directly related with the amount of light per unit of area. That makes sense for comparing lenses used in full frame and APS-C cameras: all those lenses have the same image circle radius (the one that fits the 35mm sensor).

APS-C cameras just have a smaller sensor that doesn't cover the entire image circle. So that's why you don't get more light when moving from a full frame to an APS-C sensor on the same lens, and you don't have to make conversions to a 'equivalent' ƒ number.

What's happening on phone sensors? Well, since you're not dealing with a system with interchangeable lenses, the lenses themselves are designed to have an image circle that matches the size of the sensor, more or less. So the ƒ numbers still correctly represent the amount of light per unit of area, but the area may have changed.

Let's make an example:

• Phone A has a 1x1cm image sensor, and a lens with a 8mm focal length (real, not 35mm-equivalent), with an image circle with a radius R = 0.5cm, enough to just barely cover the entire sensor. The aperture has a diameter of 5mm. That means a ƒ/1.6 aperture (focal length / aperture diameter = 8mm / 5mm = 1.6).
• Phone B doubles every metric: you want a bigger, 2x2cm sensor. But the lens in Phone A doesn't cover the entire sensor (the image circle is too small), so you design a bigger lens, with 16mm focal length (and an image circle of R = 1cm) so it has the same field of view as before (same 35mm-equivalent focal length). Then, you also decide to give it an aperture of double the diameter: 10mm. That means the ƒ number stays the same: ƒ/1.6 (focal length / aperture diameter = 16mm / 10mm = 1.6).

But it'd be *very* wrong to say that the lens in Phone B let's in the same amount of light as the lens in Phone A. In fact, it lets in *four times* the amount of light in Phone A. The thing that remains constant between both phones is the amount of light per unit of area. But, if both phones had the same resolution, every single pixel in Phone B now receives *four times* more light than Phone A (because the pixels now have four times the area, and the amount of light per unit of area is constant).

What happened between the iPhone 13 Pro and the iPhone 14 Pro is more or less the same. Sensor grew in size (don't know how much), so the lens' focal length also had to, which meant that ƒ number would go up, unless the aperture diameter grew in the same ratio.
It looks like the aperture diameter didn't grow as much, but that doesn't mean the lens captures less light. It likely captures more light now, but it's now spread over a bigger area. That area simply has spread more than the amount of light captured has, so each unit of area receives less light, BUT the area is much bigger, the total amount of light that the lens captures has likely gone up quite a bit.

We are saying the same thing. Reread my second paragraph. 👍

 

[_gst_]

Regarding the discussion about the quality of the 2x crop lens in the iPhone 14 Pro. I did some tests at the Apple store today and the quality of the 2x zoom on the iPhone 14 Pro seems to be worse than on my iPhone 12 Pro.

Here are two zoomed in screenshots from a picture for comparison. The text and the circles look a lot better on the iPhone 12 Pro:

https://imgur.com/a/wNHZIy5

Here are the original files that I used for the comparison: https://mega.nz/folder/fVlggSpb#tXCQ1S5AGwTA0ol_mNzSTg