Is it possible to go back to High Sierra

[novanut]

Hello again.
This time I'm asking if there is any way to return to Sierra from Monterey.

I bought a mini, a 2014 refurb, from OWC which had Catalina installed. I jumped up to Monterey because I was going to try and learn DaVinci Resolve. I LEARNED that my brain was too old and my patients were too short.

My other mini, also a 2014 refurb which was purchased in 2018, came with Yosemite which I up'd to Sierra. I use Adobe After Effects CS4 almost daily for family videos and photo adjustments. My copy of Photoshop CS3 used to work but something happened and now it doesn't. That's why I use AE CS4 for photos. I'm really comfortable with CS4 but the original mini is beginning to act up from time to time and would like to transfer over to the new/old mini.

Is it possible to wipe the drive and reload Sierra? My backup drive has it and I thought that might work, if I can figure out how to wipe and reload without destroying the new or old minis!

Thanks again for any and all suggestions.

 

[Boyd01]

With an old operating system like Sierra, you can create a bootable clone of your "other" Mini with Carbon Copy Cloner. If you install it on the newer Mini with Carbon Copy, the two machines will be identical. However, there are a couple issues you will need to resolve. First, you may need a legacy version of Carbon Copy because the current version probably won't run under Sierra. See this:

Can I download the old versions of CCC? | Bombich Software

bombich.com

Second, if you have installed Monterey then your disk is formatted in the new APFS format which Sierra will not recognize. So, you will need to revert it back to MacOS Extended. That should be possible, but I haven't done it myself. If your Mini has a Fusion drive, that might make things more complicated, not really sure. Some info on this here:

Downgrading an APFS-formatted Fusion volume from Mojave | Bombich Software

bombich.com

But there's another way to deal with all of this: get an external SSD (such as a Samsung T5 or similar), format it as MacOS Extended and clone the Sierra Mini to it. Now plug that disk into the new Mini and set it as the startup disk. This should work fine on the 2014 Mini, I run my 2014 Mini media server from an external Samsung T3 startup disk.

 

[novanut]

Good morning and thank you once more.

I still have a legacy copy of CCC residing on my older mac pro.

I believe both minis have SSD drives.

After reviewing the procedures CCC posted I'm not confident of my abilities on carrying it out.

Your last suggestion seems to be the best. I was just hoping to avoid buying another drive since my desk real estate is already overcrowded.

Thanks again.

 

[Boyd01]

Was looking at your OP again and am a bit confused now. The thread title mentions High Sierra, but your OP only mentions Sierra. So, which do you really want, Sierra or High Sierra? My post assumed it was Sierra, which is not able to read APFS disks. However, if you actually to to revert to High Sierra, that operating system can read APFS disks. So, if that's the case, you should just be able to install High Sierra without re-formatting the internal disk.

 

[novanut]

My bad. :{
When I started the thread I was thinking I might be able to load AE CS4 on to High Sierra on the 'new' mini but after thinking, something very dangerous, decided not to try it since it, CS4, already works dandy with Sierra on the 'old' mini.

I did download H S to the 'new' mini and it said it wouldn't do it even though the disks are APFS. Crazy huh?

Sorry for my 'fake news'...

The attached are from the 'new' mini...

 

[MBAir2010]

Creative suite 4?
i installed that on ElCap first and sierra and high sierra accepted the software
never installed CS4 on high sierra, but did with Mojave in 2018

Oh watch for the "need to update JAVA alert" for high sierra to run CS4

 

[novanut]

Creative suite 4?
i installed that on ElCap first and sierra and high sierra accepted the software
never installed CS4 on high sierra, but did with Mojave in 2018

Oh watch for the "need to update JAVA alert" for high sierra to run CS4
View attachment 2163019

Thanks MB,

That's why I decided the, if it ain't broke don't fix it, plan by staying with Sierra. The 'old' mini came with Yosemite and when I moved up to Sierra I held my breath that PS CS3 & CS4 would work. As written above, CS3 bit the dust.

 

[MBAir2010]

Thanks MB,

That's why I decided the, if it ain't broke don't fix it, plan by staying with Sierra. The 'old' mini came with Yosemite and when I moved up to Sierra I held my breath that PS CS3 & CS4 would work. As written above, CS3 bit the dust.

this weekend i upgraded to High Sierra from Sierra and CS4 worked!
High sierra has safari 13.1.2 and better security than Sierra!
If you could upgrade, i would!

and CS3 is not working in any rebooted mac from Mavericks i found out the hard way
and a fresh reinstall of MtLion is a no go for CS3, but CS4 will install perfectly.

 

[novanut]

this weekend i upgraded to High Sierra from Sierra and CS4 worked!
High sierra has safari 13.1.2 and better security that Sierra!
Of you could upgrade, i would!

and CS3 is not working in any rebooted mac from Mavericks i found out the hard way
and a fresh reinstall of MtLion is a no go for CS3, but CS4 will install perfectly.

Thanks again,

Glad your upgrade is a success.

My luck hasn't been very good lately. Bought a cable that said it would allow the control of one computers' keyboard, mouse and screen from the other computer... Not!

 

[novanut]

Was looking at your OP again and am a bit confused now. The thread title mentions High Sierra, but your OP only mentions Sierra. So, which do you really want, Sierra or High Sierra? My post assumed it was Sierra, which is not able to read APFS disks. However, if you actually to to revert to High Sierra, that operating system can read APFS disks. So, if that's the case, you should just be able to install High Sierra without re-formatting the internal disk.

I deleted the High Sierra on the new mini but I can't delete it from the trash. It keep saying that it is in use. Is there anyway to remove it from the trash?

 

[Fishrrman]

"I deleted the High Sierra on the new mini but I can't delete it from the trash. It keep saying that it is in use. Is there anyway to remove it from the trash?"

Have you tried shutting down, and then re-booting?

I had noticed this thread earlier, but didn't post to it because (frankly) I couldn't tell what the heck the OP was doing. Sounded like he had a real mess.

My advice to the OP would be:
1. Back up whatever is on the Mini now using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
2. Download a copy of the (low) Sierra installer app
3. Download either "DiskMaker X" or "Install Disk Creator" (I recommend you download BOTH of them -- if one doesn't seem to be working, TRY THE OTHER ONE)
4. Use either DiskMaker or IDC to create a bootable (low) Sierra installer on a USB flashdrive (16gb or larger)
5. BOOT FROM the USB installer
6. ERASE the internal drive completely
7. Install a fresh copy of Low Sierra
8. Restore from the backup drive. Use either setup assistant (during the initial boot), or restore "by hand" as needed from the cloned backup (which will mount right in the finder).

(like the movie said... "nuke it from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure"...)

 

[novanut]

"I deleted the High Sierra on the new mini but I can't delete it from the trash. It keep saying that it is in use. Is there anyway to remove it from the trash?"

Have you tried shutting down, and then re-booting?

I had noticed this thread earlier, but didn't post to it because (frankly) I couldn't tell what the heck the OP was doing. Sounded like he had a real mess.

My advice to the OP would be:
1. Back up whatever is on the Mini now using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
2. Download a copy of the (low) Sierra installer app
3. Download either "DiskMaker X" or "Install Disk Creator" (I recommend you download BOTH of them -- if one doesn't seem to be working, TRY THE OTHER ONE)
4. Use either DiskMaker or IDC to create a bootable (low) Sierra installer on a USB flashdrive (16gb or larger)
5. BOOT FROM the USB installer
6. ERASE the internal drive completely
7. Install a fresh copy of Low Sierra
8. Restore from the backup drive. Use either setup assistant (during the initial boot), or restore "by hand" as needed from the cloned backup (which will mount right in the finder).

(like the movie said... "nuke it from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure"...)

Howdy Fishrrman,

You are correct. Some days I don't know what the heck I'm doing!
The goal right now is to clone the 'old' mini to the 'new' mini because the 'old' mini seems to be acting up every now and then.

I've tried everything others have suggested (I think) so now I will try yours. Can I use the backup copy I have from Time machine or does it have to be with CCC? I don't have any extra drives laying around.

Thanks very much!

 

[novanut]

"I deleted the High Sierra on the new mini but I can't delete it from the trash. It keep saying that it is in use. Is there anyway to remove it from the trash?"

Have you tried shutting down, and then re-booting?

I had noticed this thread earlier, but didn't post to it because (frankly) I couldn't tell what the heck the OP was doing. Sounded like he had a real mess.

My advice to the OP would be:
1. Back up whatever is on the Mini now using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
2. Download a copy of the (low) Sierra installer app
3. Download either "DiskMaker X" or "Install Disk Creator" (I recommend you download BOTH of them -- if one doesn't seem to be working, TRY THE OTHER ONE)
4. Use either DiskMaker or IDC to create a bootable (low) Sierra installer on a USB flashdrive (16gb or larger)
5. BOOT FROM the USB installer
6. ERASE the internal drive completely
7. Install a fresh copy of Low Sierra
8. Restore from the backup drive. Use either setup assistant (during the initial boot), or restore "by hand" as needed from the cloned backup (which will mount right in the finder).

(like the movie said... "nuke it from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure"...)

I downloaded both DiskMaker X and Install Disk Creator. I followed their instructions (I think). This were the results. I checked the USB using disk utility and it passed inspection. I downloaded Sierra from the apple site. Sierra is no longer available at the app store.

 

[Fishrrman]

Looks to me like the version of Sierra you downloaded was corrupt or incomplete.

For Low Sierra, try this link:
macOS Sierra 10.12

 

[novanut]

Looks to me like the version of Sierra you downloaded was corrupt or incomplete.

Before going further... questions:
What is the "old" Mini (year)?
What is the "new" Mini (year)?

For Low Sierra, try this link:
macOS Sierra 10.12

Both minis are 2014 vintage and purchased from OWC. Old has 8GB of memory, New has 16gb. New came with Catalina which I foolishly upgraded to Monterey. Both have 1tb SSD drives

 

[novanut]

"I deleted the High Sierra on the new mini but I can't delete it from the trash. It keep saying that it is in use. Is there anyway to remove it from the trash?"

Have you tried shutting down, and then re-booting?

I had noticed this thread earlier, but didn't post to it because (frankly) I couldn't tell what the heck the OP was doing. Sounded like he had a real mess.

My advice to the OP would be:
1. Back up whatever is on the Mini now using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
2. Download a copy of the (low) Sierra installer app
3. Download either "DiskMaker X" or "Install Disk Creator" (I recommend you download BOTH of them -- if one doesn't seem to be working, TRY THE OTHER ONE)
4. Use either DiskMaker or IDC to create a bootable (low) Sierra installer on a USB flashdrive (16gb or larger)
5. BOOT FROM the USB installer
6. ERASE the internal drive completely
7. Install a fresh copy of Low Sierra
8. Restore from the backup drive. Use either setup assistant (during the initial boot), or restore "by hand" as needed from the cloned backup (which will mount right in the finder).

(like the movie said... "nuke it from orbit -- it's the only way to be sure"...)

Have to step away from the computers for a few hours to 'recharge the little gray cells'. Will check back around 5, Alabama time.

 

[Boyd01]

Sorry, I'm still confused. Is the old Mini setup the way you like? If so, just create a bootable Carbon Copy Clone of it. I did the exact same thing a few weeks ago between an 8gb 2014 Mini and a 4gb 2014 Mini. I just cloned the "old" Mini to an external USB SSD, then plugged that SSD into the "new" Mini and set it as the startup disk (it doesn't have an internal SSD). My systems are running Mojave, but that should make no difference here - the point is that Carbon Copy can create identical, bootable clones for versions of MacOS before Catalina.

I see three different, easy ways to accomplish what you want.

1. Clone the old Mini to a USB SSD and use that to boot the new Mini.
2. Clone the old Mini to any kind of USB disk, then clone that disk to the internal SSD on the new Mini.
3. Forget cloning... just remove the internal SSD from the old Mini and put it in the new Mini. OWC has a video for this.

Again, this all assumes that you just want to make the new Mini exactly the same as the old one.

 

[novanut]

Sorry, I'm still confused. Is the old Mini setup the way you like? If so, just create a bootable Carbon Copy Clone of it. I did the exact same thing a few weeks ago between an 8gb 2014 Mini and a 4gb 2014 Mini. I just cloned the "old" Mini to an external USB SSD, then plugged that SSD into the "new" Mini and set it as the startup disk (it doesn't have an internal SSD). My systems are running Mojave, but that should make no difference here - the point is that Carbon Copy can create identical, bootable clones for versions of MacOS before Catalina.

I see three different, easy ways to accomplish what you want.

1. Clone the old Mini to a USB SSD and use that to boot the new Mini.
2. Clone the old Mini to any kind of USB disk, then clone that disk to the internal SSD on the new Mini.
3. Forget cloning... just remove the internal SSD from the old Mini and put it in the new Mini. OWC has a video for this.

Again, this all assumes that you just want to make the new Mini exactly the same as the old one.

Thanks again for your good advice.

I was hoping to avoid buying another 1tb drive by using the smaller usb I have to load Sierra and boot to the new mini. Do you think it's possible to just hook up the 1tb time machine backup to the new mini and somehow restore it over the Monterey OS?

 

[Boyd01]

I have made my suggestions. Of course there are many other ways to accomplish this however. Any method of restoring with Time Machine is likely to be much more complicated than Carbon Copy.

 

[untfan]

If there is nothing of value on the “new” Mac mini then I would second the nuke and reinstall method - or copy everything off, nuke and then copy back. If the OS is acting funny on thr “old” Mac a copy/clone might act funny on the “new” Mac.

To go the nuke and reinstall route, you’ll need a 16GB USB drive.

1. Download Sierra from here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683 and follow steps #1-3.

2. There is a “bug” in the Sierra Installer, so you need to follow the steps here from Eau Rouge: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251380944 to create thr USB installer

If you need more info on thr createinstallmedia step, see here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

3. When your ready to wipe the drive and reinstall, plug the bootable intaller into thr Mac, press and hold the option key, and then power on the Mac. Once the boot menu is shown you can release the option key. Select the usb drive to boot off of, load disk utility and erase the internal drive, then reinstall Sierra. Once complete perform the available updates and then reinstall your other apps and finally copy the data over.

 

[novanut]

I have made my suggestions. Of course there are many other ways to accomplish this however. Any method of restoring with Time Machine is likely to be much more complicated than Carbon Copy.

Boyd01, My apologies if I offended you. I tend to do that from time to time. I will keep trying to reach my goal using yours and the others suggestions.

Hope your day is filled with blessings.

 

[Boyd01]

Oh, no offense, no worries! Just seemed like we kept covering the same ground and I didn't have much left to say. I'm sure you'll reach your goal soon.

 

[novanut]

If there is nothing of value on the “new” Mac mini then I would second the nuke and reinstall method - or copy everything off, nuke and then copy back. If the OS is acting funny on thr “old” Mac a copy/clone might act funny on the “new” Mac.

To go the nuke and reinstall route, you’ll need a 16GB USB drive.

1. Download Sierra from here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211683 and follow steps #1-3.

2. There is a “bug” in the Sierra Installer, so you need to follow the steps here from Eau Rouge: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251380944 to create thr USB installer

If you need more info on thr createinstallmedia step, see here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

3. When your ready to wipe the drive and reinstall, plug the bootable intaller into thr Mac, press and hold the option key, and then power on the Mac. Once the boot menu is shown you can release the option key. Select the usb drive to boot off of, load disk utility and erase the internal drive, then reinstall Sierra. Once complete perform the available updates and then reinstall your other apps and finally copy the data over.

Howdy Untfan,

I've tried using terminal several times and never got past the password. Will follow your links and see what happens. Hadn't thought about moving the "funny" things from the old mini to the new mini with a complete copy. If I ever get the new mini to accept Sierra I will tread carefully in moving stuff from the old mini...

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[untfan]

You’ll need an Administrator account to use the ‘sudo’ command, not just a standard user and use the administrator password.

If that doesn’t work you can create a new administrator account with a password. Then login and download and execute the usb disk creation. Once created, you can logout and log back into your normal account and delete the administrator account created.

 

[novanut]

You’ll need an Administrator account to use the ‘sudo’ command, not just a standard user and use the administrator password.

If that doesn’t work you can create a new administrator account with a password. Then login and download and execute the usb disk creation. Once created, you can logout and log back into your normal account and delete the administrator account created.

Thanks again. Good to know.