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Is it safe to buy a Mac Mini?
- Thread starter danpass
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I didn't have much of a choice, I just ordered i7/1TB/8GB/10GbE I figured, Mini's same to keep it's value pretty well and I think it'll be a year for all my specialty software I need for work to be updated anyway.
What is consider obsolete can be somewhat subjective and dependent on one's particular use, although I think you are describing discontinued.
When it comes to tech, I think that your definition would be closer to the word discontinued, not obsolete:
Definition of DISCONTINUED
no longer produced or provided… See the full definitionwww.merriam-webster.com
Do you consider every Mac that is no longer produced and/or sold as obsolete? How about the 2019 iMac?
This is what I think of when I think of obsolete.
When it comes to tech, obsolescence isn't just when something is no longer produced or no longer sold, but when something is no longer useful and is replaced with something else.
So getting back to the 2018 Mini, whenever the next Mini comes out and Apple stops producing and selling the 2018, it doesn't mean that the tech is no longer useful, and I am sure people will not instantly start replacing it with something else just because a new Mini came out.
I specifically used the word obsolete because this is an entirely new architecture for Mac. This isn’t just a new model or a refresh. This is like saying the PS4 is obsolete when the PS5 releases, it’s not like saying the 2017 iMac is obsolete when the 2019 model came out because there are minimal differences.
ARM Macs are a seismic shift, a once in a decade and a half change, not your yearly update that we’d normally think of. That’s why obsolete is exactly the right word to use in this case.
However, I don’t think we need to derail the thread by semantics. We can agree to disagree 😁
The more correct word would be "discontinued".
While it is a big change in design, doesn't mean the previous design is instantly obsolete once the new one comes out.
That is why there is a transition period, Rosetta 2, and universal apps.
The PPC Macs were not obsolete at the launch of their Intel successor. The same for the switching to Arm Macs.
I guess you could use the word obsolete if the new Minis do something that the user needs to do that the older Inte Minis are no longer able to do, but I suspect that this will not be the norm at launch nor anytime soon after.
While I agree that it could derail the thread a little, I also think it is important for MR members that may not be that knowledgeable about Macs to understand the distinction between discontinued and obsolete when it comes to technology.
They might be shopping for a new Mac and see this thread, and get the wrong idea of the life span of the current Intel Macs when they see posts saying that they are going to be obsolete in a few months.
That’s why I used the Explorer example. Ford re-designed it for 2020. New engine, transmission (RWD instead of FWD), safety tech and body. Seems analagous to Apple changing its processors, and it might be even more of a change.
But no one would say that the 2019 Explorer is now obsolete. Cars become obsolete when you can’t repair them easily or find parts. Or when they have technology that makes them too unsafe or too inefficient to operate.
It’s similar to computers as well. It won’t be obsolete until Apple stops providing support, parts, and repairs. Or when it’s no longer getting security updates (unsafe) or can no longer run basic modern computer tasks (inefficient).
As stated above, terminology is important because some people might think the intel Mac Mini might actually fit the above definition in a few months.
let’s just all go with what Apple says
“
Vintage products are those that have not been sold for more than 5 and less than 7 years ago. Mac, iPhone, iPad, iPod, and Apple TV vintage products continue to receive hardware service from Apple service providers, including Apple Retail Stores, subject to availability of inventory, or as required by law.
For products purchased in France, see Statutory Warranties of Seller and Spare Parts.
Obsolete products are those whose sales were discontinued more than 7 years ago. Monster-branded Beats products are considered obsolete regardless of when they were purchased. Apple has discontinued all hardware service for obsolete products, with no exceptions. Service providers cannot order parts for obsolete products.”
I bought a i5 Mac Mini few weeks ago as I saw a great sale and I really needed a new computer asap. So far I've been very pleased with it, everything non-GPU-intensive runs butter smooth. I would have to pay 1500 euros more in order to get a Macbook with similar CPU performance, and those don't have user-upgradeable RAM. Also, I hooked it up with ethernet and use Logitech unifying receiver for my mouse and keyboard in order to avoid all the wifi/bluetooth issues people have been complaining about.
But yeah, although I'm a person who normally buys stuff for very long-term (my phone is still iPhone 5S), I'm most likely to keep this thing only for for next 2-3 years or so, depending on just how impressive those ARM Macs will be.
But yeah, although I'm a person who normally buys stuff for very long-term (my phone is still iPhone 5S), I'm most likely to keep this thing only for for next 2-3 years or so, depending on just how impressive those ARM Macs will be.
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That is not completely true, based on what I've heard. 64-bit Intels apps are supposed to run in an emulator called Rosetta. We don't know how well they will run, they may be slower than the current Mini. 32-bit apps will not be supported. Now, 32-bit apps also aren't supported in Catalina on the current Mini, however you can also run Mojave and apparently a lot of people are doing that (there's a long thread here).
Personally, I have some very expensive 32-bit apps that still do everything I want - an upgrade to the 65-bit version of FileMaker Pro would cost me around $550, VectorWorks upgrade about $1500, Strata 3d around $1200. I am running Catalina on my 2018 Mini but have Sierra and Mountain Lion virtual machines under Parallels which run these apps perfectly (faster than they ran natively on my old Macs). Am also running Windows 10 under Parallels with another expensive legacy app. None of this will be possible on the new ARM Macs. There might be third party solutions at some point, but they will be emulators, which will not run as fast or smoothly as Parallels on the current Intel Macs.
So... depends on what you need. An Office 365 subscription will work on the ARM Macs, so will Adobe Creative Cloud and of course Apple will provide native versions of their own apps. But if you have invested a lot of money in 32-bit Intel apps, then you might want to get a 2018 Mini while you still can.
Yes I am familiar with Rosetta and the word was that the Intel apps in general should run quite well. As for items such as office365 etc., just consider them web apps and that makes them OS neutral for the most part. I do think you made a good point of sorts about matching your* software to the right hardware and OS. I use VMware Fusion with 3 additional OS's (Win 7, 10 and at least one distro of Linux). For me, I can see possibly getting a setup so I may continue to have those vm's in the future. Alternatively I could simply exist with two computers. I somewhat like the idea of a Mini that had both a monitor and an iPad used as a second "touch" screen in some instance.
Just bought an i7/1TB/64GB Mini a few weeks ago. I’ve bought 1st generation Apple products enough times and learned my lesson.
1st gen Apple ARM Macs will be flaky in some way, shape, or form. If you enjoy spending your money so you can beta test Apple’s products for them, do it.
Either buy Intel now or wait for 2nd generation ARM Macs. The certainly unsafe option is 1st gen Apple Silicon ARM Macs.
1st gen Apple ARM Macs will be flaky in some way, shape, or form. If you enjoy spending your money so you can beta test Apple’s products for them, do it.
Either buy Intel now or wait for 2nd generation ARM Macs. The certainly unsafe option is 1st gen Apple Silicon ARM Macs.
Apparently there is a 50% performance hit under Rosetta on the DTK Mini, which is described as comparable to a 2012 15" MacBook Pro. Of course, when the Apple Silicon Mini finally arrives, it might have a faster CPU and Rosetta may have been tweaked for better performance.
Mac Mini DTK A12Z faster than MBP 16" i9 in native benchmarks.
8-core A12Z 17% faster than 8-core 2.3 - 4.8GHz i9 in native benchmarks. Rosetta means a 52% performance hit. It's like a 15" MacBook Pro from 2012. https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/apple-silicon-beats-macbook-pro-in-speed-comparison-3794690/ UPDATE! They've deleted all the evidence...
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I'd say it all depends on whether you need Intel or not. If you do, it might not be to your advantage to wait much longer. There may be a bit of discounting as we head toward the fall, but I wouldn't expect Intel fire sales or anything. There could be Intel-based Macs popping up in the refurb store for quite a while, but of course you take your chances on what's available there. I would predict that Intel-based Macs hold their resale value pretty well, especially if the ARM transition is rocky. If you don't need Intel, then it just depends on your time frames (when you need a machine, when you're ready to make the jump to ARM, etc). I think concerns about rev 1 ARM machines are valid, as well as what the user experience will be like when you're running every non-OS application in Rosetta 2.
The 2002 QuickSilver came out in January and the MDD came out in August. So that's 8 months. It's possible you didn't buy it at launch.
Nope had my numbers wrong (was looking at the wrong column on Every Mac). Bought it just a couple months before the MDD's came out so I guess I bought it too late. The 2002 was kinda like the 2020 Mac mini heh. It was just a refresh of the original QS which came out at the normal Fall release just a few months before.
Of course this is all conjecture - It is unclear if Rosetta 2 will be as slow as the original Rosetta when it is in its final release. I would imagine that Apple this time would work very hard to make it somewhat reasonably fast to gain confidence in buyers. What I read weeks ago (wish I could recall the source) it mentioned that Rosetta ran apps quite well. Perhaps one's measure or use of the term "quite well" is in question. Let's see how things progress but I admit I am happy with the Intel hex core offering. What for me would be a draw for ARM would be video. I would hope they would not play this game of stripping off a feature to force fit it into their marketing scheme.Apparently there is a 50% performance hit under Rosetta on the DTK Mini, which is described as comparable to a 2012 15" MacBook Pro. Of course, when the Apple Silicon Mini finally arrives, it might have a faster CPU and Rosetta may have been tweaked for better performance.
Mac Mini DTK A12Z faster than MBP 16" i9 in native benchmarks.
8-core A12Z 17% faster than 8-core 2.3 - 4.8GHz i9 in native benchmarks. Rosetta means a 52% performance hit. It's like a 15" MacBook Pro from 2012. https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/apple-silicon-beats-macbook-pro-in-speed-comparison-3794690/ UPDATE! They've deleted all the evidence...
Rosetta 1 did live emulation of the code and instructions. Rosetta 2 translates or recompiles the app on disk before launch, presumably at install. Performance should be very good. The real unknown is compatibility and stability.
Have you used the web based MS Office products in Safari? They are butt slow and lack a whole lotta options. They also simply don’t work with spacing and editing glitches between a Mac user editing a file and Windows user editing a file. Really quite horrible.
There is no way new non intel software and hardware will be fast and bug free (like my 2018 mini running Mojave) for at least 2+ years. Which, in my eyes, makes the 2018-2020 mini a SAFE buy.
I use Apple's offerings such as Pages and Numbers as well as Office365 and Libreoffice. Office via web is not my preferred choice whether using Chrome or Safari etc. However, it functions well enough for most people. I have yet to have an issue with using Office365 between Mac and Win but will take your word it was a problem for you.
As far as Intel based Mini's I made a case why it was a good option for me simply by the desire to continue to use VM's.
I bought an i7/32/1T at the beginning of March. Just before they did a price-cut.
I previously bought a 2012 i7 in April of 2014. I really wanted to make it to the 6-year-mark, but I needed a decent machine to work from home and my display was giving in, too, so I got a new Eizo 3285 from a clearance-sale for 50% off.
I do hope to make it to the 6-year-mark with this one.
I previously bought a 2012 i7 in April of 2014. I really wanted to make it to the 6-year-mark, but I needed a decent machine to work from home and my display was giving in, too, so I got a new Eizo 3285 from a clearance-sale for 50% off.
I do hope to make it to the 6-year-mark with this one.
There is no "2020" model Mac Mini. Apple simply deleted the base 128GB storage option this year. All specs are the exact same as the late 2018 models.
Same thing they did with the 6,1 Mac Pro in 2016... they just deleted the 4-core/D300 model and made the 6-core/D500 the base option. They didn't start calling the new base config a 2016 Mac Pro.
Same thing they did with the 6,1 Mac Pro in 2016... they just deleted the 4-core/D300 model and made the 6-core/D500 the base option. They didn't start calling the new base config a 2016 Mac Pro.
I'm wondering now if a Macbook Pro 13 would be better lol.
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