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josephmo

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 23, 2019
1
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Hey, new here. All help, advice and recommendations appreciated.

Looking to buy this macbook pro just wanted to know if its worth it

Retina Macbook Pro mid 2012 15"
2.3GHZ i7
16GB RAM
15"
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536MB

Overall condition is pretty good, minor dent/scratches here and there. The battery however will most likely need a replacement. Only last 30 mins on a full charge.. its going for about 440 USD after some negotiating, what do you all think.

My other option is
Retina Macbook Pro mid 2012 15"
2.6GHZ i7
8GB RAM
500GB SSD
2012 model, dont know specifics

Battery is at around 200 life cycles but says service battery, same aesthetics damage roughly, and around 350USD

I was leaning towards 16GB RAM since its not upgradable on either of the two, cause was concerned 8GB may not be enough in 2-3 years. Also, i'm not really a power user, casual use and some work related use, no video/photo editing related tasks. Thanks in advance!

*i'm aware late 2013 is better, considering batteries are easier to replace and all but thats going for roughly 700-750 USD, not sure if its worth the extra cash up front.
 
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To be honest I don't think either is really worth investing in. These computers are already many years old. I have a 2015 MBP Retina and while this works very well for me I don't think I'd want to spend any money in late 2019 on anything earlier than 2015.

Know what applications you will use, how intensive are they? RAM absolutely important so like you say buy the model which has enough for your needs now and in the future, Apple has made it needlessly difficult to upgrade RAM (and sometimes not possible at all).

What ports do you want/need. Legacy ports or is it worth investing in newer peripherals?

I notice both are i7 CPUs but try and compare these to more recent releases.

I'm trying to help but I realise I might be offering you bad advice.
 
If you are tied to a small budget, the non-Retina Mid 2012 MBP models could be an option. Especially the matte antiglare widescreen 1680×1050 pixels display versions are great. They do have easy swappable memory (max. 16 GB) and disk drive (e.g. replace by a cheap 1TB 2,5" SSD). You could plug it to an external display with a resolution up to 2560×1600 pixels and run latest macOS Catalina. IMHO, that setup would even be better than a first-gen rMBP.
 
If you are on a small budget, and only will be using it for casual and basic office work, then it can work out. However, it probably won't be able to be upgraded to future macOS beyond Catalina, and your mileage will vary when it comes to whether the hardware will hold up for another few years.

My concerns are, like others mentioned earlier, that it is rather old. I have a non-retina 2012 MacBook Pro that has been upgraded to 8GB ram and 250 GB SSD. It still works fine for what you described, but I've had to replace a dead hard drive cable twice over the years. In addition, these days I have another hardware issue in which sometimes when I move the lid or close it and open it back up, my Mac will freeze up or the screen will go dark, so I have to power off and on. Basically, it's getting long in the tooth so I'm probably going to replace it next year when hopefully new MacBook Pros without the butterfly keyboard will come out.

For your needs, 8GB ram is enough and 16GB ram will be overkill and drain your battery faster.

If you're not enamored with retina display, I would suggest trying to find a cheap second hand 2017 MacBook Air, the old non-retina one with the old scissors keyboard. Here in Shanghai, China I found a shop selling that with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD for around $730 USD and my friend bought that.
 
If you are tied to a small budget, the non-Retina Mid 2012 MBP models could be an option. Especially the matte antiglare widescreen 1680×1050 pixels display versions are great. They do have easy swappable memory (max. 16 GB) and disk drive (e.g. replace by a cheap 1TB 2,5" SSD). You could plug it to an external display with a resolution up to 2560×1600 pixels and run latest macOS Catalina. IMHO, that setup would even be better than a first-gen rMBP.


But what about the GPU issues? Is the 2012 MBP 13" reliable on the LogicBoard/GPU front?
 
But what about the GPU issues? Is the 2012 MBP 13" reliable on the LogicBoard/GPU front?
As I own a non-Retina 2012 MBP 15", I don't have any personal experience with the 13" models.

My 8 years old 2012 MBP 15" with dedicated 1 GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M GPU and integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 is still in 24h/7d use and works really well until now. Indeed I just upgraded from OS X 10.8.5 to Mountain Lion to OS X 10.9.5 Mavericks, added a 2 TB Samsung 860 Pro SSD drive and a new battery about two weeks ago. The battery exchange was the most urgent part of the self-repair, as it started to inflate so that the trackpad got unusable because of the battery´s pressure from the inside. Maybe, watch out for a slightly deformed Trackpad, if you're going to buy a used 2012 model. I finally decided to upgrade the system because of the lack of newer TLS version support in Mountain Lion. With Mountain Lion and Photoshop CS6 there were some never solved issues with gaussian blur. That was the only (maybe GPU related, maybe Adobe related) issue I ever had with the 2012 MBP 15" so far. It remains to be seen whether gaussian blur is going to work better on Mavericks with its newer Open GL version.

Like @Mr_Brightside_@ already stated, all of the 2012 MBP 13" models (Retina and non-Retina) just had an integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 GPU with no option for an additional dedicated GPU. As far as I know, just the 2012 Retina models were affected by video issues, while the non-Retina models all were fine. So not every 2012 MBP with dedicated GPU was affected. According to Apple, the 13" wasn't covered by the GPU exchange program and thus pretty sure wasn't affected by that issue.

From this archived site from Apple
Products affected
  • 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro models manufactured in 2011
  • 15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina models manufactured from Mid 2012 to Early 2013
 
As I own a non-Retina 2012 MBP 15", I don't have any personal experience with the 13" models.

My 8 years old 2012 MBP 15" with dedicated 1 GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M GPU and integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 is still in 24h/7d use and works really well until now. Indeed I just upgraded from OS X 10.8.5 to Mountain Lion to OS X 10.9.5 Mavericks, added a 2 TB Samsung 860 Pro SSD drive and a new battery about two weeks ago. The battery exchange was the most urgent part of the self-repair, as it started to inflate so that the trackpad got unusable because of the battery´s pressure from the inside. Maybe, watch out for a slightly deformed Trackpad, if you're going to buy a used 2012 model. I finally decided to upgrade the system because of the lack of newer TLS version support in Mountain Lion. With Mountain Lion and Photoshop CS6 there were some never solved issues with gaussian blur. That was the only (maybe GPU related, maybe Adobe related) issue I ever had with the 2012 MBP 15" so far. It remains to be seen whether gaussian blur is going to work better on Mavericks with its newer Open GL version.

Like @Mr_Brightside_@ already stated, all of the 2012 MBP 13" models (Retina and non-Retina) just had an integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000 GPU with no option for an additional dedicated GPU. As far as I know, just the 2012 Retina models were affected by video issues, while the non-Retina models all were fine. So not every 2012 MBP with dedicated GPU was affected. According to Apple, the 13" wasn't covered by the GPU exchange program and thus pretty sure wasn't affected by that issue.

From this archived site from Apple

Okay. That's good to know. The case differs here starkly. Almost all the 2012 13' MBPs that I have been finding on the Online Marketplace suffer from Graphic issues and Logicboard failures. If I were to hazard a guess, I have found around 20 MBPs, out of which 10 think that their MBP has a bad display and that a few slaps here and there makes it all 'perfect' again. 4 of them admitted that there is something wrong with the Logicboard and that it needs reballing/reflowing/any repair to get it going. There was this one person who just hung up on me when I explained my whole ordeal of 2011 MBP. It seemed that he just wanted to get rid of it anyhow. He offered me a sub-par market price and was willing to go more low on that. The rest are either clueless dealers or the shady ones.
I would go on a limb to say that maybe Apple has better products over there rather than here. You folks have the BBB, we are sort of alien to that concept. I have also heard the rumors that more often the replaced parts find their way in this part of the world, making the serviced devices prone to such failing. I was on my 5th LogicBoard of the 2011 MBP and yet it failed despite several hacks and tricks. The only relief is that it lasted for 9 years, sadly I paid a huge sum for that and it still bites me.
 
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Almost all the 2012 13' MBPs that I have been finding on the Online Marketplace suffer from Graphic issues and Logicboard failures.
That must be a hard situation. In general I'd advice to keep away from any malfunctioning second-hand Apple devices, except someone is a real hardware repairing enthusiast and not an average Mac user. In my experience, economically it's almost always a cheerless prospect to get a somehow defective Mac back to normal condition. IMHO, that's especially true without knowledge about its history and without access to a large spare parts depot. There are too many variables of possible failures and finally it could cost much more than a new or refurbished device sold with warranty.

That said, a bad display could be a defective coating on a Retina Mac, a cracked screen, a broken cable or simply an aged display, that doesn't show the colors as bright and balanced as it was new. While replacing a display in a Retina Mac is an unsuitable self-repair for most users, a replacement in a non-Retina one or exchange of a cable I'd consider as manageable, if a functioning spare part is available, that seems to be another problem at your place. Doing without the internal display and just utilize an external display could be another option for use as a desktop, but probably not for you, as you do have an iMac and a Mac mini.

If the 2012 MBP 13" integrated GPU fails, it means that at least a processor replacement is needed. As the Intel Core i5 (3210M) or Core i7 (3520M) "Ivy Bridge" processors are soldered, it needs much experience to do the soldering and is nothing that an average user should try. This also applies to attempts reflowing it with a heat gun. A logic board failure can be caused by everything from a visible leaked capacitor to a micro crack to a defective processor. However, ask someone really experienced for those kind of repairs.

To sum it up, I wouldn't deal with obvious dead Macs, at least not without a live inspection before paying. One solution would be to continue searching for a fully functional used MBP and convince yourself from this before paying. Then consider to get a new or refurbished Mac that includes warranty, if unavailable at your site even consider ordering from abroad with insurance against loss during delivery. As a last resort, build a cheaper Hackintosh from more common and pricier PC components or better ask a versatile friend to do you this favor.
 
I see that the original poster has disappeared since his query last year, so this is not adressing him/her but giving some clarification to some misinformation which crept into some replies.
The mid-2012 15" MBPro9,1 although having NVidia GT650M and HD Graphics 4000, was not affected by the Apple recall program as not troubled by GPU issues like some of the earlier 15" models. @organicCPU provided similar correct information.
An interesting post was given by @addictive and I tend to agree that the 2012 Retina 15" MBPro may not be worth 'investing' in, although still a very capable laptop today.
As a collector of Macs, imho the mid-2012 non-retina 15" (MacBookPro9,1) is a completely different kettle of fish. I personaly rate these very highly, as even today in 2020 they have so many things going for them; the last of the truly upgradable laptops, easy to change out the HD for an SSD, upgradeable RAM (now inexpensive), easy to change battery, a full selection of very usable accessory ports (I use 'em all including Firewire and the optical drive), and last but by no means least, will support the latest OS and is rugged and generally highly reliable.
The last new Mac I purchased was a 15" mid-2012 MBPro Retina, and it now sits like new in it's box unused since I discovered my most recent (MacBookPro9,1) non Retina model. In fact the Retina model was purchased on a whim before I had done adequate research - don't get me wrong it's not a bad model and the screen is a pleasure, but for me it just looses out over the previous model for overall satisfaction, knowing that if anything does eventually go wrong individual parts can be replaced with ease.
A colleague who had never owned a Mac, asked what used model he should buy for performance and reliability, and I recommended the MacBookPro9,1. Months later he still hadn't found one, and asked if he could buy mine. I was stupid, and in what must have been a very weak moment agreed to sell. I started to re-use the 15" Retina and also an i7 mid-2012 13" MBPro9,2 (another excellent model)!
Within a month I had severe sellers remorse, and started looking around for another mid-2012 non-Retina 15" with the excellent i7 'Ivy-Bridge' CPU. I'm fussy and it had to be near-mint, and was delighted when a boxed version was offered to me at a superb price. The next day, I'd installed a 500GB Samsung SSD, upgraded memory and done a Mojave clean install (not interested in Catalina) but when available may eventually install OS 10.16 on a new partition.
These are so rugged compared to current ultra-thin models, and I'm convinced many will still be going strong (even with patched OS's if necessary) for many years to come, making them an excellent 'investment' over much newer models which will prove unbelievably expensive for in-store, out-of-warranty repairs in the medium/longer term.
Now if anyone's interested in a near-mint Retina model I may possibly put it up on the Marketplace forum here. Sorry, the non-Ret will not be for sale, ever!

Left: Near-mint mid-2012 15" Retina (MBPro10,1) Right: Near-mint mid-2012 15" non-retina (MBPro9,1)
2 MBPs.JPG
 
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Not replying to the original thread, but answering to the clarification of presumed misinformation. I used to think that presumptuous lot are from land, however, it pleases to see that there are few folks there too.

Well, I have compiled a list of odd 25 adverts on one buyer-seller portal called as OLX. Anyone who wishes to really address the 'misinformation' is very much welcome to clarify their presumptions. There are scores of adverts which are selling the 2012 MBP 13' at throwaway prices and most importantly they are not in a stock condition but have recently upgraded which do raise suspicion about the logicboard failure. Ideally, people would upgrade their MBPs to keep them going for a couple of more years. But in most cases, one would find that the MBP has been recently upgraded. Further, the way Apple products are used by the general mass tells how much we are bothered about the upgrade. MBPs are by and large a status symbol here, for most of the time it is used for FLEXING. Yeah, you read it right, flexing!
So, when you head to the OLX, you would find the selling adverts for 2011-2012 MBPs going for cheap. A few of them do post that their system has some logicboard issue while some do not and it is easy to distinguish.
So, from 3 months of talking to over 50 different people and following up various resources over the web to identify Logicboard issues, I have a formula for buying MBP on OLX:
If the MBP is a bit expensive or cheap BUT it is in stock condition, it is worth buying.
If the MBP is cheap and has upgrades like RAM or SSD and the advert mentions working flawlessly/smoothly/no hangs/all perfect, then one has to be wary.
If the MBP is expensive and has upgrades and the advert says no error and selling reason is UPGRADING to another MAC, then it is okay to buy.
This is not a definitive one but is what I have used to buy some good products over the site. I have got a Macbook 2010 which serves me very well for my tasks.

In conclusion, if every demographic was the same, we wouldn't have the GATT or the WTO controlling the global prices and services of industries. It is there for a reason.
No two countries have the same policies of operating of a particular brand.

People may have different experiences, but that in no way should be implied as the ONLY ONE and TRUE experience. I'm for certain about the used MBPs here. But I can't really say the same for other countries.
We are a nation apart and I think one must understand atleast that, before typing out anything insensible.

Adios!
 
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