dapa0s

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Original poster
Jan 2, 2019
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I want to buy the 12 core, 580x, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd config, because I need it for my logic pro x work. 12 cores is enough for my work, and I'll be adding in RAM myself, of course.

But is it worth it to buy it right now? ARM macs are coming soon, and I would hate to buy the last intel Macs and it then not having support, and people getting similar performance to my mac while paying three times less in the near future.

I currently have an i9, 64gb ram, 5500 4gb ram mbp 16, and it's just not enough for the music I make.
 

ruslan120

macrumors 65816
Jul 12, 2009
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I think it will be at least a little while before the Mac Pro is updated to ARM.

Considering its cost, maybe a 10 core iMac 2020 will fulfill your needs
 
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dapa0s

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2019
369
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I think it will be at least a little while before the Mac Pro is updated to ARM.

Considering its cost, maybe a 10 core iMac 2020 will fulfill your needs

I definitely won't be getting the 10 core iMac 2020, since it's barely better than my mbp for Logic Pro.

The iMac Pro, however, is much better in Logic Pro then both the new iMac and the mbp 16 (probably because of better RAM and much, much better cooling), but I'd rather get the Mac Pro, since it is modular and way easier to maintain.
 
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OkiRun

macrumors demi-god
Oct 25, 2019
1,001
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Japan
He is a musician who discussing Mac Pro 7,1 specs for his workflow.
Might help your decision making.

 
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triton100

macrumors 6502a
Dec 15, 2010
552
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He is a musician who discussing Mac Pro 7,1 specs for his workflow.
Might help your decision making.

Great video. Thanks for sharing that. What shocked me though was the price differential between Canada and the U.K. the machine he specced out was around 11k Canadian dollars. The equivalent in the U.K. is nearly 14k!! I couldn’t believe it. Apple customers are really burned with prices here.
 
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mBox

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2002
2,318
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I don't get why Mac users think they will lose support after a few years from purchase?
We have Macs as far back as 2006 that are still working here and they are so easy to service.
After the 2013 Macs, I had no doubt Apple was in it for the long haul with these.
We purchased over a dozen and none have died to date.
Now we have two 2019s and updating more in the near future.
If you need to work now then do it.
You will not see any ARM Mac Pros for a long time.
And in Apple computer years that could be at least 3 to 5 years.
 
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ChrisChaval

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Aug 30, 2016
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my feeling is that with the transition from intel to apple silicon the Mac Pro will be one of the last machines to be updated to AS

imho the biggest advantage of AS at this point is performance per watt and this most probably will be put to the test first on portable machines like the MacBook series of products, maybe even a revived Macbook as well as the iMac line where space is reduced because of portability or design limitations

this is where apple silicon may really shine, in a confined space with little cooling, providing great performance coupled with outstanding battery life

in desktop solutions like the Mac Pro, cooling is not much of an issue so AS might have to compete with Intel and AMD for a while, and right now, I find it difficult to make out a clear winner in that kind of use case

so, in my opinion, the Mac Pro will be the last of the Macs to be switched to AS

might be wrong, let me know what you think
 

andrinho14

macrumors newbie
Aug 17, 2017
18
14
I would move up from the base 580 graphics card - get the 5500X minimum.
Dear bcomer,

I am in the same boat as the original poster, but my focus would be on CPU (12 core) and ram (would add 64GB aftermarket).
What advantages would the 5500X give us over the next 580X? My understanding that it offers the same performance
 

mBox

macrumors 68020
Jun 26, 2002
2,318
64
I am in the same boat as the original poster, but my focus would be on CPU (12 core) and ram (would add 64GB aftermarket)...
I too went with high cores (16) for my day job.
A ton of After Effects rendering and video editing for this beast.
For home, I still have a D700 working its ass off in Resolve and everything else :)
 

dapa0s

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2019
369
629
my feeling is that with the transition from intel to apple silicon the Mac Pro will be one of the last machines to be updated to AS

imho the biggest advantage of AS at this point is performance per watt and this most probably will be put to the test first on portable machines like the MacBook series of products, maybe even a revived Macbook as well as the iMac line where space is reduced because of portability or design limitations

this is where apple silicon may really shine, in a confined space with little cooling, providing great performance coupled with outstanding battery life

in desktop solutions like the Mac Pro, cooling is not much of an issue so AS might have to compete with Intel and AMD for a while, and right now, I find it difficult to make out a clear winner in that kind of use case

so, in my opinion, the Mac Pro will be the last of the Macs to be switched to AS

might be wrong, let me know what you think

I think you're right, my only fear being that Apple will make an affordable ARM beast of a CPU, similar in performance to the threadripper 3990x (64 cores, 128 threads) and make it reasonably priced since they will be producing it. So all of us that buy the Mac Pro will, in this scenario, end up looking a bit foolish for spending so much money :D

But of course, there's really no way of knowing right now.

I would move up from the base 580 graphics card - get the 5500X minimum.

I was thinking about that, but I'll just buy an upgrade later, since I don't need the GPU at all, for anything. I'll save up some money now, probably look for a good refurbished model and upgrade later, that's what's so great about the mac pro's modularity.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
9,625
2,119
Current iMac Pro: old technology, not upgradable, basically same price as when it came out

Pragmatically not because the core counts have changed. $4999 gets you 10 cores now; not 8.

if the original post user's workload is far more core count limited than RAM limited (i.e. would work just fine for more than several years at 32GB ) then :

iMac Pro $4999 : 10 cores , 32GB , 1TB SSD , Vega 56 8GB HBM/VRAM

Mac Pro $5999 : 8 cores , 32GB , 0.256 TB SSD , 580X [ negative bang for buck on SSD , GPU , and core count , and still possibility need a screen ]
$7399 : 12 cores , 32GB , 1 TB SSD , 580X [ erase the CPU core count gap. ]


That is a $1-2.4K gap for not that much more. Optionally, for $1.2K can more the iMac Pro to 14 cores and 64GB RAM.

The user is currently having problems with 4GB of RAM. Going to 32GB is a 8x increase. Is RAM really going to be blocking issue at that point? At 10 cores that is 3.2GB per core. ( 14 cores , 64GB --> 4GB per core)
[ edit: oops mixed the MBP 8GB VRAM with the 64GB of RAM in MBP. Still can make up the $400 move on iMac Pro to 64GB out of the over $1K gap on Mac Pro. ]

If only need a modest amounts of virtual instruments and plug-ins and RAM then this can work out fine for a number of years.


2019 Mac Pro: new technology, upgradable

The x86 cores really aren't that much different. In the audio space it isn't so much as upgrades as much if if will later need Audio add-in cards via the PCI-e slots. That's probably the bigger differentiator. Not really an "upgrade' if not using any of them now. More so moving to something "new".


Apple has said they are switching the whole Mac line up in 2 years. So both are going to get "tossed" onto the 'old tech' pile as far as Apple is concerned. The Mac Pro isn't going 'buy' much in substantively more length of time of "first party' support.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G3
Mar 10, 2009
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But is it worth it to buy it right now? ARM macs are coming soon, and I would hate to buy the last intel Macs and it then not having support, and people getting similar performance to my mac while paying three times less in the near future.

I currently have an i9, 64gb ram, 5500 4gb ram mbp 16, and it's just not enough for the music I make.

Big possible issue is the stack of 3rd party plug-ins and add-ons you use with Logic Pro X. If have major dependencies on 3rd party software then Mac Pro ( or iMac Pro ) is probably 'safer'. Especially if have some older 3rd party software who developers are not very active in keep up with new updates and new macOS technology. Any plug-in-/add-in that uses AVX would be in an even bigger "hole'

If only strictly use Apple stuff ( comes with Logic Pro) then it shouldn't be an issue. If need 8 (or more ) GB per core then may have to wait quite a long time for the Apple Silicon solution to come. One of the major changes between the Mac Pro (and iMac Pro ) future SoC is probably a memory subsystem that Apple is going to be hesitant to jump to ( as there is about zero overlap with what is needed for iOS and iPad OS line up). They will probably "kick the can down the road" on that for as long as their timeline will allow.

If going to need triple digit GB RAM capacities then I suspect that will probably be in something very close to the 2022 timeframe. And the Intel Mac Pro is a probably a better fit if need to get more work done in the near future. Or need to shift to using some audio/video capture/generation cards in the future.


Alot of this depends upon where the MBP 16" is running out of steam. Running out of memory to hold data is a different issue than running out of cores to get more concurrent work done.

Running out of Memory the new Apple Silicon SoC aren't going to do much of anything different. In fact short term the limitations of the SoCs will likely prove to be a problem. ( as aimed more so at laptops which is the kind of system having a problem here. )

If memory footprint scales up with core count increase ... Apple throwing lots of "energy efficient" cores at the SoC probably won't help with scaling.
 

dapa0s

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jan 2, 2019
369
629
Apple has said they are switching the whole Mac line up in 2 years. So both are going to get "tossed" onto the 'old tech' pile as far as Apple is concerned. The Mac Pro isn't going 'buy' much in substantively more length of time of "first party' support.

Yeah, my fear is that Apple will just be completely getting rid of these mac pros withing a year or two and dropping support for them within five years.

Considering the price some people pay for these machines, I think that's pretty unfair, but what can you do about it?


On a side note, I'll definitely be getting the mac pro (or maybe the imac pro) within a week or two. I just tried playing civ 6 (one of the first time I actually tried gaming on my mbp16), and after a few turns everything froze, my mbp restarted and it showed me a kernel panic report. I just wanted to unwind on my machine after a logic pro session, and I even let my macbook cool down for 20 mins before starting the game. It was even on windowed 720p. If that happened while I was working in logic I could have lost a lot of work.

I know it's not a gaming machine, but not handling civ 6 at 720p windowed for an hour? I'm already pissed off when it constantly lags and slows down in logic, and gets really, really loud. Oh well.
 
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profdraper

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2017
164
127
Brisbane, Australia
I think you're right, my only fear being that Apple will make an affordable ARM beast of a CPU, similar in performance to the threadripper 3990x (64 cores, 128 threads) and make it reasonably priced since they will be producing it. So all of us that buy the Mac Pro will, in this scenario, end up looking a bit foolish for spending so much money

Likely best to do deeper research rather than rely on social media /blog opinions - still, my 2 cents FWIW:

Apple are *never* going to make anything 'reasonably priced' and especially under their self-proclaimed 'pro' moniker. Is a badge for gouging. So ARM or not, the margins will always remain exorbitant (& has been that way for 30 years).

Apple do not make ARM (or pretty much anything of their own really ex. software & [ahem] security). 'Designed in California - made in Sweat Shops?'

'Apple Silicon' will be made by Taiwanese firm TSMC (like much of Apple's gear, my Mac Pro was built in Taiwan by Quanta Computer). Then there is also much flux in this market & so it remains to be seen exactly how this will play out in the next few years, eg: Nividia is to buy ARM (hilarious considering the ancient 'banning' of Nvidia by Apple following a long ago war that Apple has even forgotten about 'why' but still holds a grudge). Apple chose not to get into bidding for ARM & meanwhile Nividia & ARM bought up all excess capacity at TSMC for next generation CPUs & GPUs.

Point being, we have no idea how ARM will turn out for Apple yet, and especially in terms of being able to replace Intel Xeon CPUs. I'd be inclined to figure on at least four years and also seeing a few generations of that in practice first. For portables and consumer devices, sure.

The MP7,1 in its current form will be around for quite some time I suspect, just like the MP5,1 before it. Only real CPU downside is that the Xeon-W isn't going anywhere & the MoBo socket is very limited. I'd say best we'll see is a bump of the base spec at some point to represent something a little fairer and more sane that the current (silly) base system, eg really crappy GPU, the wrong ram, overpriced proprietary storage, etc.

Of course one always has to be prepared to have very deep pockets to buy MacOS. On balance, I'm happy with my config for the particular work it does (I'm also very happy with my Dell dual Xeon workstation & i7 touchscreen convertible laptop too). But the MP did cost literally twice as much as the (more powerful) Dell.

Quite, cool generally well behaved - except for the mess that is Apple UEFI & T2 management (give me F2 to the BIOS anyday). Stay with the MacPro if that's what you need /would like. It will have the same grunt for years & in terms of running my particular apps - DAWs, music production, NLEs, 4k film production - this performance is quite good and I don't see that ratio changing much in the future unless I went into some new, far more grunty production field (say, VR or Dolby Atmos etc).
 

TomMuc

macrumors member
Oct 22, 2019
41
20
Munich, Bavaria
I want to buy the 12 core, 580x, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd config, because I need it for my logic pro x work. 12 cores is enough for my work, and I'll be adding in RAM myself, of course.

But is it worth it to buy it right now? ARM macs are coming soon, and I would hate to buy the last intel Macs and it then not having support, and people getting similar performance to my mac while paying three times less in the near future.

I currently have an i9, 64gb ram, 5500 4gb ram mbp 16, and it's just not enough for the music I make.
i can well understand the question. you have seen with the mp 2.1/3.1 and 6.1 that you can bet on the wrong horse. the 4.1 and 5.1 were great and were also supported by apple for almost 10 years.

and who knows, maybe they won't rely on their own arm architecture for the mac pro for a couple of years, but instead they'll rely on their graphics card partner amd and use a ryzen, who knows ...
 
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jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
659
579
Lincolnshire, IL
Only thing worries me is how long Apple is going to support future parts like GPU?
How long they will provide an option for MPX graphic?

What about driver support for future AMD graphic cards even if Apple discontinues their own MPX version?

I'm pretty sure Apple will continue supporting in terms of OS update, but not sure about above.
 
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