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Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about what is lacking in the data-entry capabilities of web-apps for your usage?
First off, I've only done rudimentary web programming myself, I'm speaking as just a plain user on this. I am a long time (decades) programmer of both the IBM iSeries machines and Windows.

The things that bother me are cursor control and dynamically and automatically updating data in a form based on current inputs. I just don't see programmers doing anything in this realm, leaving it up to the user to both place the cursor in the next field, and having the right attribute (overwrite or insert). Auto type ahead would be nice too. It's all ends up being so slow user-wise, and that's not counting web browser latency, which can be significant as well..

We just had a large project where a very large in the small business field vendor replace one of our archaic applications with a web based app. (I didn't do the project myself, it was all user and V.P. level based) It lasted 2 weeks, then we reverted back to a very antiquated iseries application. The only comment I could get out of them was it was a mess. Since this was a pretty recognized application area with a very large vendor, I can only surmise it was the data entry and reporting that was the problem. I may have been able to help with the transition, but being V.P. level stuff, and I'm just a IT manager, I really just don't ask questions, I do things they ask.

Are these forms, on-line spreadsheets or something similar?
No, nothing like that. Think of purchasing, inventory, sales, ..., ERP basically. Normal multi application business stuff.

On that note though, I don't like web distributed speadsheets either. Versions of what it was created with and what version a user has on their machine can be so critical in functionality, I wish people would just stop trying to make it work and go to something like adobe reader forms instead. I just had to fill out one of these forms for our state government and it just plain didn't work with my O365 local version. Close as I could tell is that it was created in Office 97 and all the trust center stuff in more modern versions had a total cow with anything they tried to do in that spreadsheet and I didn't want to take the time to fix it, so I filled it out on paper.

What in your opinion, are the major issues with web-applications, other than challenges in accessing physical hardware & interfaces?
It's all ease of use problems to me. And some browsers working with some things and others with other things, to quote that user I asked above, it's messy. Speed of browser based delivery is secondary most of the time -- unless there's a problem...
 
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First off, I've only done rudimentary web programming myself, I'm speaking as just a plain user on this. I am a long time (decades) programmer of both the IBM iSeries machines and Windows.

The things that bother me are cursor control and dynamically and automatically updating data in a form based on current inputs. I just don't see programmers doing anything in this realm, leaving it up to the user to both place the cursor in the next field, and having the right attribute (overwrite or insert). Auto type ahead would be nice too. It's all ends up being so slow user-wise, and that's not counting web browser latency, which can be significant as well..

We just had a large project where a very large in the small business field vendor replace one of our archaic applications with a web based app. (I didn't do the project myself, it was all user and V.P. level based) It lasted 2 weeks, then we reverted back to a very antiquated iseries application. The only comment I could get out of them was it was a mess. Since this was a pretty recognized application area with a very large vendor, I can only surmise it was the data entry and reporting that was the problem. I may have been able to help with the transition, but being V.P. level stuff, and I'm just a IT manager, I really just don't ask questions, I do things they ask.


No, nothing like that. Think of purchasing, inventory, sales, ..., ERP basically. Normal multi application business stuff.

On that note though, I don't like web distributed speadsheets either. Versions of what it was created with and what version a user has on their machine can be so critical in functionality, I wish people would just stop trying to make it work and go to something like adobe reader forms instead. I just had to fill out one of these forms for our state government and it just plain didn't work with my O365 local version. Close as I could tell is that it was created in Office 97 and all the trust center stuff in more modern versions had a total cow with anything they tried to do in that spreadsheet and I didn't want to take the time to fix it, so I filled it out on paper.


It's all ease of use problems to me. And some browsers working with some things and others with other things, to quote that user I asked above, it's messy. Speed of browser based delivery is secondary most of the time -- unless there's a problem...
Good answer. I worked on a migration project moving from a "green screen" data entry system for legal services to an Oracle web framework. I never used the legacy system but I gathered it was quite fast, but required significant user training (lots of unintuitive key short cuts and various quirks).

It is certainly possible to make web-forms for data entry "smart" in the ways you describe, with features such as "auto-advance", type ahead / predictive entry, data validation (based on previous entries) etc.

Web browsers can be very fast, at least if we believe the benchmarks that are quoted, but full use needs to be made of client-side processors, preemptive downloads, caching and so forth.

I don't get involved in front-end development these days, but it has made huge strides forward in the last 10 years. We used to do a lot of back-end processing in model-view-controller frameworks, and yes, some of those apps were slow compared to their fat client equivalent.

As you say, it comes down to developer knowledge and ability as well as the web-browsers. A lot of the effort is now going into the front-end. But yes, really big web apps like O365 are missing lots of features compared to the desktop versions.
 
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Good answer. I worked on a migration project moving from a "green screen" data entry system for legal services to an Oracle web framework. I never used the legacy system but I gathered it was quite fast, but required significant user training (lots of unintuitive key short cuts and various quirks).

It is certainly possible to make web-forms for data entry "smart" in the ways you describe, with features such as "auto-advance", type ahead / predictive entry, data validation (based on previous entries) etc.

Web browsers can be very fast, at least if we believe the benchmarks that are quoted, but full use needs to be made of client-side processors, preemptive downloads, caching and so forth.

I don't get involved in front-end development these days, but it has made huge strides forward in the last 10 years. We used to do a lot of back-end processing in model-view-controller frameworks, and yes, some of those apps were slow compared to their fat client equivalent.

As you say, it comes down to developer knowledge and ability as well as the web-browsers. A lot of the effort is now going into the front-end. But yes, really big web apps like O365 are missing lots of features compared to the desktop versions.
Cool, there is hope then! Maybe I'll start paying attention to web programming a bit more now. I feel a bit stale at the moment anyway so maybe it's time.

We still have green screen stuff, mainly for ERP functions. It's very fast, but like you say, learning it isn't great.

Our inventory / production system is all Windows fat clients with the ERP system being the back end. This is the layer I'd like to redo the most. While it isn't as archaic as green screen, it just doesn't work quite as well and maybe the best to do on a browser.

Thanks for a sane discussion, that's unusual around here. :)
 
Cool, there is hope then! Maybe I'll start paying attention to web programming a bit more now. I feel a bit stale at the moment anyway so maybe it's time.

We still have green screen stuff, mainly for ERP functions. It's very fast, but like you say, learning it isn't great.

Our inventory / production system is all Windows fat clients with the ERP system being the back end. This is the layer I'd like to redo the most. While it isn't as archaic as green screen, it just doesn't work quite as well and maybe the best to do on a browser.

Thanks for a sane discussion, that's unusual around here. :)
If you have ever played around with the cloud versions of Microsoft Office or Google Docs you can see that web technologies can support some very sophisticated input and interaction models.
 
If you have ever played around with the cloud versions of Microsoft Office or Google Docs you can see that web technologies can support some very sophisticated input and interaction models.
One of the things I don't like is office embedded stuff, but I'll give it a go. Never used google docs...
 
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