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VietKinh

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2023
81
56
Below freezing
Windows 10/11 makes me want to pull my hairs out!!! Forced mandatory updates (delay by 2 weeks at most), which gets rid of all my saved passwords and custom settings. With each update, every icon becomes smaller. Windows 11 preview window when hovering through icon/tab is distracting!

While I never had these issues with Win 98/XP/7, I never really cared about Windows other than for gaming. Mac + gaming would be the dream! Eventually, I will switch my Windows laptop to Linux.

I haven't use macOS since 2009 but I enjoyed my short time with it. Everything works the way it should and learning a new interface/OS was fun. I never got to experience Alfred, Author, Shift, and other apps that will increase my workflow and productivity.

I'm excited to order my Mac Mini M2 (not sure about configuration yet) along with Magic Trackpad 2 and see if it truly the "game-changer" that I imagined it to be. One thing is for sure, not having to reach for my iPhone to receive/send texts & makes call is going to be special!

In your opinion, is macOS Amazing or is Windows 10/11 disappointing?

Do you feel
you are more productive on a Mac Vs PC?

I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,177
5,515
ny somewhere
yes, no. both. neither.

both platforms have their strengths, weaknesses; fans, detractors (and, what is completely shocking... people tend to think the platform they know & use is coincidentally the 'better' one).

personally, in 2023, i'd say it's a draw. the beautiful thing is... we have a choice.

having said that, i swear my by macs (and my iphone), and it's pure coincidence that those are the things i know & use... 😎
 

lepidotós

macrumors 6502a
Aug 29, 2021
668
743
Marinette, Arizona
I've been using Linux for the last 14 years (Mandriva 2008 Spring was my gateway drug) and on-and-off dual booting, last time I did so (before now) was with Windows Vista SP2 but I have experienced Windows 8.1, and I have to say Windows 11 is a massive step back in just about every way on an OS that was already a dumpster fire. My experience with it has been unstable, choppy, and with baffling UI decisions compared to what I've seen of 10 or 8.1. And then there's the forced updates that may or may not wipe your PC, the predatory monetizing of features that were at one point completely free in a $150 package... and this is all on a Surface Laptop 3 with an i7, hardware that's perfectly capable of running W11 and that Microsoft themselves are providing support for. Better experience with Fedora than with Windows.
I suppose I may be biased. I just like this... platform? Ecosystem? Genre of software more than either Windows or macOS, and I'll probably be getting an M3 13" Pro (or M2 if the M3s have a notch and no TB) later on down the line just to use for Linux or OpenBSD, whichever of the two turns out to be a better experience. Makes better use of the hardware and gives me the most flexibility to use my computers how I want, which is something I value. Plus, since it's open source, it's as portable as it can possibly be.​
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,951
2,543
Los Angeles, CA
Windows 10/11 makes me want to pull my hairs out!!! Forced mandatory updates (delay by 2 weeks at most), which gets rid of all my saved passwords and custom settings. With each update, every icon becomes smaller. Windows 11 preview window when hovering through icon/tab is distracting!

While I never had these issues with Win 98/XP/7, I never really cared about Windows other than for gaming. Mac + gaming would be the dream! Eventually, I will switch my Windows laptop to Linux.

I haven't use macOS since 2009 but I enjoyed my short time with it. Everything works the way it should and learning a new interface/OS was fun. I never got to experience Alfred, Author, Shift, and other apps that will increase my workflow and productivity.

I'm excited to order my Mac Mini M2 (not sure about configuration yet) along with Magic Trackpad 2 and see if it truly the "game-changer" that I imagined it to be. One thing is for sure, not having to reach for my iPhone to receive/send texts & makes call is going to be special!

In your opinion, is macOS Amazing or is Windows 10/11 disappointing?

Do you feel
you are more productive on a Mac Vs PC?

I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
I have zero issue with Windows 10. The same is virtually true of Windows 11 too. My only gripes are minor interface changes. Otherwise, they're both rather stable.

The only updates that are mandatory (and frankly, they're no-brainers) are the cumulative updates that come out every month. But not installing those is about the dumbest thing you can do in 2023. Every year, both OSes get Feature Updates that increments the version. You can defer those with Windows 10/11 Pro/Enterprise. For Windows 10/11 Home Edition, there's no reason to defer those. For Windows 10, there's no real reason to, since the only changes that Microsoft is making to Windows 10 at this point are security related (and the changes are not really otherwise noticeable). For Windows 11, you may want to; and luckily each Windows 11 release is supported for two full years for Pro and Home editions and three full years for Enterprise releases.

I find that the only folks complaining about Windows Update in Windows 10 and 11 are folks that never really knew much about how Windows works and whose primary experience with it came from the Windows 95-7 era.

Considering that Microsoft's primary customer with Windows is businesses, there's not all that much that breaks version to version (and again, there are new versions annually). I very much appreciate this as both a computer user and as a computer support professional.

macOS, on the other hand, while as slick as ever, has loads of bugs introduced with each new major release and often for apps that worked just fine in previous versions. It's either poor quality control or too much ambition on too tight of a schedule (annual release schedule for macOS never made any sense). Either way, if you are a power user or someone who values their things to work stably and consistently, it's crap.

Ventura is okay, but not free from issues and bugs. Monterey was buggy for its entire release timeline. Big Sur was pretty stable, though too much of a transition OS inside and out to make it one of the greats. Catalina was an utter dumpster fire. Mojave was fantastic. High Sierra had one of the worst vulnerabilities ever that made it all the way to the .1 release before anyone at Apple did anything about it. Not to mention, it was also a buggy mess pretty much until the .6 release. Sierra had a fair amount of bugs that made no sense. El Capitan was solid all the way through. I just listed out every annual release of macOS dating back to 2015 and I can only say that three of them gave me a truly stable user experience that didn't aggravate me at least once throughout my day.

I'm a Mac user because I've invested a ton into the Apple ecosystem. I'm a Windows user because it's a more powerful computing platform and because both gaming and virtualization are huge things that you could get away with doing on an Intel Mac, but can't really do anywhere near as fully on an Apple Silicon Mac. Apple pisses me off more.
 

thebart

macrumors 6502
Feb 19, 2023
399
354
Don't know what happened with OP's system, but i never lost anything updating windows

I stayed on windows 7 for a long time because i had an ancient PC, then finally upgraded to 10 for windows subsystem for Linux (totally worth it). Both have been solid. Windows 10 is a little slower because my PC is 12 yo.

Windows and MacOS have their pluses and minuses. Your needs and inclinations will tip the scale one way or another. Bootcamp was a way to have it both ways, but that's over with
 

Bazza1

macrumors 6502a
May 16, 2017
723
557
Toronto, Canada
Always OS-ambidextrous, but my own computers were Windows from 3.1 thru 7 - Win8 finally chasing me away to Mac (coincidentally about the time that Apple managed to finally produce an 'affordable' MacBook) full time. That said, I have, over the last couple of years, had experience with Win 10 / 11 at work sites.

Is MacOS amazing? Absolutely not. But it is consistent. Aside from the times when Apple tries to dumbify it down to be 'consistent' with the iOS experience / apps, while at the same time not taking on touchscreens. But, for the most part, a Mac user from 20 years ago will find their way around MacOS (and the same built-in apps) with little problem. That might count as A Good Thing, but that might speak more to complacency than intention.

But let's face it, we've also had cases of IIABDFI (If It Ain't Broke...) from both Apple and Microsoft as they've tried to create the Next Big Thing - only to screw with a product that people relied on. So complacency (along with fixing bugs and security issues) may not be a bad thing. Even if there are those who clamour for some 'Squirrel!' moment with each OS release.

As for Microsoft - while they gave up on the truly bad idea that was the Win8 GUI with a closer return to the Win 95 > Win 7 look with the release of Win10, it seems that with the release of Win11, they decided the purpose of the OS is to be a Media / Gaming / Chrome App product. And rather than replace older OS-embedded products, they release new products (mostly to do wih Media manipulation / playback) that do the same thing as the existing product, but take up users' storage instead. It seems that Microsoft has pretty much lost all interest in their OS being a multi-purpose / business product. It's all about products that monetize the user experience (see also, Microsoft 365 'subscriptions'), rather than be a Personal Computer. It needs a full purge and rewrite. Or maybe - as increasingly seems the case from them - just acknowledge its done, and sell (along with Lenovo, Dell, Acer, ASUS, et al) - 'dumb' devices that are Chrome-based and rely on being online and the online subscriptions to their products.

Where am I most productive? Sometimes on a real notepad with a pen - and I'm thinking of digging out my Filofax...
😏
 
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VietKinh

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2023
81
56
Below freezing
Don't know what happened with OP's system, but i never lost anything updating windows

I stayed on windows 7 for a long time because i had an ancient PC, then finally upgraded to 10 for windows subsystem for Linux (totally worth it). Both have been solid. Windows 10 is a little slower because my PC is 12 yo.

Windows and MacOS have their pluses and minuses. Your needs and inclinations will tip the scale one way or another. Bootcamp was a way to have it both ways, but that's over with

Windows 11 is a nightmare! I putted Win 10 up there because it was tolerable. But Win 11 is the reason I'm returning to macOS. All their so call "improvement" are so intrusive.

I really want to return to Win 7 but I worry I won't be able to play some of the modern games that I have.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
5,951
2,543
Los Angeles, CA
As for Microsoft - while they gave on the truly bad idea that was the Win8 GUI with a closer return to the Win 95 > Win 7 look with the release of Win10, it seems that with the release of Win11, they decided the purpose of the OS is to be a Media / Gaming / Chrome App product. And rather than replace older OS-embedded products, they release new products (mostly to do wih Media manipulation / playback) that do the same thing as the existing product, but take up users' storage instead. It seems that Microsoft has pretty much lost all interest in their OS being a multi-purpose / business product. It's all about products that monetize the user experience (see also, Microsoft 365 'subscriptions'), rather than be a Personal Computer. It needs a full purge and rewrite. Or maybe - as increasingly seems the case from them - just acknowledge its done, and sell (along with Lenovo, Dell, Acer, ASUS, et al) - 'dumb' devices that are Chrome-based and rely on being online and the online subscriptions to their products.

Where am I most productive? Sometimes on a real notepad with a pen - and I'm thinking of digging out my Filofax...
😏
You are referring to surface-level elements of Windows 11.

Yes, they are pushing Microsoft 365 (though this is also happening on Windows 10 as well). And, if you are serious about being a Windows user, unless you never touch Word or Excel, Microsoft 365 is sort of a no-brainer, especially when OneDrive is (a) first-party, and (b) leaps and bounds better than iCloud Drive.

Windows 11 isn't about dumbing down Windows 10. It's about taking security features that were optional to use and adopt in Windows 10 (e.g. Secure Boot, TPM 2.0, Virtualization-based security, etc.) and making them mandatory. This ultimately Thanos-snaps 60% of all Windows malware out of existence. Yes, they're trying to be more colorful and friendly. To be fair, this is a good thing. Windows 10, for how stable it is, isn't a pretty looking OS. Frankly, I don't care about how pretty an OS is so long as it runs stably and makes proper use of my computer's hardware (and runs the software I wish to run).

Furthermore, at the end of the day, Windows 11 isn't all that different from Windows 10. It's not even that drastically different of a codebase or build version. If anything, it's only substantial for its system requirements which, for the first time since the launch of Windows Vista, is much more than simply a 1GHz x86 CPU, 1GB of RAM, and 10GB of storage. Past that and it's just a facelift.
Windows 11 is a nightmare! I putted Win 10 up there because it was tolerable. But Win 11 is the reason I'm returning to macOS. All their so call "improvement" are so intrusive.

What about it is so intrusive? They give you the means of turning off things you don't want turned on. They give it to you in several places and ask you many times. I'm not saying that Edge asking me three times whether I want to use their recommended defaults isn't annoying. I'm saying that it's really not that hard to make Windows 11 work in such a way that it's neither annoying nor intrusive.

I really want to return to Win 7 but I worry I won't be able to play some of the modern games that I have.
Running Windows 7 in 2023 is one of the worst ideas ever, right next to sticking a fork in a light socket and calling your ex-girlfriend to tell her you miss her. It's not supported and hasn't been (outside of Enterprise agreements, which are now also not supported anymore) for the last three years and three months.

You can run Windows 10 for the next two years and change. Windows 11 isn't that bad. It requires you to be proactive and understand how to use your computer to some degree. But that's always the case with Windows. At least, when it comes to customizing the experience to be optimal. But nothing that requires an IT certification. Easy stuff.

Mac users that complain to me that they use macOS because they know how to use it better than Windows, but fail to realize that 9 times out of 10, clicking the red "X" doesn't actually quit the program never cease to amaze me.
 
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Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,996
2,346
Europe
and, what is completely shocking... people tend to think the platform they know & use is coincidentally the 'better' one
Is it not the reverse, that people tend to use the platform they think is better and like more? I could use Windows, but I hate it, and so I don't.
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,177
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ny somewhere
Is it not the reverse, that people tend to use the platform they think is better and like more? I could use Windows, but I hate it, and so I don't.
in my humble observation, people mostly use what they grew up on, learned on. either way, both platforms have, as always, their fans and detractors, and, even in 2023, too many believe that what they use is coincidentally, the better platform (whereas i know the mac is better 🤣)...
 
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Basic75

macrumors 68000
May 17, 2011
1,996
2,346
Europe
in my humble observation, people mostly use what they grew up on, learned on. either way, both platforms have, as always, their fans and detractors, and, even in 2023, too many believe that what they use is coincidentally, the better platform (whereas i know the mac is better 🤣)...
Well of course we all know that Amiga Rulez Forever!
 
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gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
1,895
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Italy
They're both pretty lousy if you ask me.
The OS should be a lightweight and bugless clean slate for you to perform your work on, and both current Windows and MacOS fail pretty badly in their regard.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,177
5,515
ny somewhere
They're both pretty lousy if you ask me.
The OS should be a lightweight and bugless clean slate for you to perform your work on, and both current Windows and MacOS fail pretty badly in their regard.
it might be interesting to have 'lite' versions of the OSes, but what do you leave out?

personally, i'd just like to see faster bug-squashing, but, in every OS, there are always bugs. am just happy i can in fact get my work done right now 👍
 

gpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2011
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Italy
it might be interesting to have 'lite' versions of the OSes, but what do you leave out?

personally, i'd just like to see faster bug-squashing, but, in every OS, there are always bugs. am just happy i can in fact get my work done right now 👍

Windows does have one.
It's called Windows LTSC.
I use that on every x86 machine I have.
Amazing package.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,495
11,155
Windows already runs better with only 8GB than AS MacOS but you can slim it down even further with Tiny11 script to run with 2GB RAM and taking only 12GB disk space for OS installation.

https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/make-lightweight-windows-11-image-tiny11-builder

Overall, Windows has fewer annoyances, doesn't require jumping through as many hoops and has fewer headaches with regards to software availability/compatibility without resorting to trial and error of translation/virtualization layers.

Some examples but can probably fill a book...

When connecting external monitor as primary device the audio output doesn't automatically follow video output and requires extra steps to sync the two. On Windows the two automatically sync together.

Scroll wheel direction is reversed with external mouse and while you can flip the direction in settings it then reverses the trackpad scroll direction so you have to constantly change the settings when going back and forth between trackpad and external mouse. How about setting both to the same direction like Windows or have separate scroll settings for trackpad and external mouse?

While on battery WIFI disconnects when display sleeps so, for example, large download keeps stopping so you either have to repeatedly wake the screen or set the display to never turn off and drain more battery. Windows has settings to only sleep display separately from system/storage/peripherals/etc.

Uninstalling app doesn't remove everything or most things and leaves more litter than Windows.

Trackpad isn't as smart as Windows implementation with regards to tap to click and selection when running out of trackpad real estate. On Windows when you hit the edge of trackpad it's smart enough to continue selection.

Apple doesn't seem to care about breaking key softwares like Crossover/Parallels with Ventura 13.3 and there's no easy way to revert back to the previous MacOS version like Windows "Go Back". Just wasted more time reinstalling Ventura 13.2.1 since who knows what else is broken.
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,035
1,789
Anchorage, AK
Here is a partial list of my issues with Windows 11:

- Forced UI changes that make no logical sense (Taskbar and Start Menu are trash on W11)
- Breaking the context menu so that you now have to dig two levels deep to find what was at top level in W10 and earlier versions of the OS.
- The OS not playing well with multi-monitor setups. When I turn on my PC, the monitors will both turn on, then start dropping and reconnecting multiple times. This is not a driver or hardware issue, as the same videocard and monitors worked just fine under W10.
- Window snap functionality is broken. I used to be able to quickly move windows between displays using the Windows+Shift+(left or right)Arrow Key shortcut. That is no longer working under Windows 11. Related to this is the bar that Microsoft hides at the top of the display for similar functionality (which always seems to pop up at the worst possible moment).
- Windows Update has become a pain in my side under W11. The OS wants to reboot after even simple updates that don't affect parts of the core OS, and constantly pops up notices to that effect, even after telling the OS not to notify me about those updates.
- The overall dumbing down of the OS also ticks me off, because I don't need or want my hand held by Microsoft to "guide" me through setting up my machines the way I want them set up.
 
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fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,177
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ny somewhere
all of this just proves that every OS has happy users & unhappy ones, and there's no one 'perfect' OS. so much depends on our hardware, our apps, our needs... and the moment.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,177
5,515
ny somewhere
my uncle has a powermac with (i think) os 7.6, and it's a killer (or it was, not sure it's still running). all you had to do in those days was wait 15 minutes for a single-page document to print, then you could resume itunes. brilliant 👍
 

vanc

macrumors 6502
Nov 21, 2007
485
150
all of this just proves that every OS has happy users & unhappy ones, and there's no one 'perfect' OS. so much depends on our hardware, our apps, our needs... and the moment.
Indeed. I'm enjoying both macOS and Windows and switching back and forth due to my workflow. We have choices and free to choose what's best for you.
 
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