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Is Microsoft dying a slow death?

onthecouchagain said:
Windows 8 doesn't know what it wants to be. There, I said it.
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Sure it does, it wants to be a nice touch/simple interface for tablet users, or consumer sheep, because its easy to use with big bright buttons.

And it also wants to be a normal desktop OS when you want it.

I've been using it for awhile now, and after you get used to it, it makes perfect sense.
 
beyondthepale35 said:
Ive been using W8 for quite a while now and I dont miss the old start menu at all. I tried installing start8 and I had it uninstalled by the end of the day. Its really not as big a deal as people make it out to be, and I actually liked discovering some of the quirks of 8. Definitely needs to be a good tutorial on it for newcomers though, but its faster than 7 and I really dont need to leave desktop mode much, so a win for me.
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The biggest problem with 8 is that it's got all these neat new ways to do things so much quicker, but MS doesn't bother to tell you about any of them. It really is about the least discoverable OS made in the last 10 years. Sure, once you learn all the new features, you're hauling ass and doing things 10x quicker than you could before. But that first week when you don't know crap? It kinda sucks. Even though I think it's blown far out of proportion, I can kinda understand why people rage about it after their initial impressions.

And it's not like MS goes out of their way to help you out much. Their big tutorial video that shows right after you first install it is basically...

"Hi!"
"We'll teach you how to use new Windows while we set up your PC"
:video of giant cursor flying towards the corner of the screen"
"The corners do things now"!
"Okay, your PC is ready. Good luck"!

...oh yeah, that makes things so much clearer. Going to the corner of the screen brings up weird icons. Yeah. Alright. Appreciate it.
 
Windows 8 simply scares most traditional OS users when they see it. Microsoft needs to come up with a better way to market and explain it.
 
Renzatic said:
The biggest problem with 8 is that it's got all these neat new ways to do things so much quicker, but MS doesn't bother to tell you about any of them. It really is about the least discoverable OS made in the last 10 years. Sure, once you learn all the new features, you're hauling ass and doing things 10x quicker than you could before. But that first week when you don't know crap? It kinda sucks. Even though I think it's blown far out of proportion, I can kinda understand why people rage about it after their initial impressions.

And it's not like MS goes out of their way to help you out much. Their big tutorial video that shows right after you first install it is basically...

"Hi!"
"We'll teach you how to use new Windows while we set up your PC"
:video of giant cursor flying towards the corner of the screen"
"The corners do things now"!
"Okay, your PC is ready. Good luck"!

...oh yeah, that makes things so much clearer. Going to the corner of the screen brings up weird icons. Yeah. Alright. Appreciate it.
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Agreed, most normal users are going to have fun not knowing how to do something and then randomly clicking some part of the screen an hour later and having what they originally wanted to do pop up. The tutorial they have now is a joke, but I have a feeling if they had a vastly better one a lot of complaining from people who have tried W8 for 10 minutes would go away. It really is a breeze to use once you know the ropes.
 
ixodes said:
Although I've witnessed it for years, why Apple enthusiasts seem so compelled to badmouth any competition, seems a bit off. Yet they will go to great lengths, some rather juvenile, like spelling it "Windoze".
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And now you have Android fans doing the same thing. Windows 8 is awesome, especially on a touch screen device. I think once a raft of good x86 Windows tablets are out, Android will be pushed into 3rd place in the tablet market and W8 will give the iPad a good run for its money. Microsoft actually generated real hype and excitement for the Surface launch, I think MS is on the comeback trail more than anything.
 
They definitely have a solid foundation, thats for sure. Whether or not it will be the Surface Pro or not, youd think with all the OEMs someone will come up with a killer Windows 8 tablet that really change the game. Amazing to think that MS jumped the gun on bringing a full OS experience to tablets before Apple, and I think just having a foot in the door first for once will be a huge boost.
 
I can't see them going anywhere soon, but since everyone is glowing about Win8, I wanna be that guy.. 😉 I couldn't stand it, feels just like running 2 OS's on top of each other, and I am firmly on the side of the fence that it is better on tablets. People can learn to like anything. Performance seemed good I will say, I would like to see what it is like a year down the road on a machine that gets bloated up.

That really isn't my issue with the big M though. They have taken gaming and just made it wretched. A paid service with ads and a lot of them with XBOX live. Have to be a paying Live member to use Netflix or Hulu plus on the system, just like their brother Apple they are some greedy people. You get metro on the dashboard now which is absolutely horrible and it takes 3 steps you used to be able to do in 1.

I hated that interface on the XBOX from day 1, I dislike it on desktops. Tablets and phones are good but I didn't get overly excited about it when they announced it. I rather have my own desktop background and not pick a color of tile. Also nice that my paid theme on XBOX got screwed over all the way by the amazing tiles that I can now not see my theme at all.

All started on day 1 actually. 100 bucks for wifi adapters, 100 bucks for 20 gig hard drives that were proprietary. $40 for 512MB memory cards. Made Apple accessories look cheap. And I think we can mostly thank MS for DLC which now game Devs leave out content to make us pay later for stuff they take out. Just got really gross and of course people paying to dress up an avatar. Yup.

I hope the metro stuff doesnt catch on and is rejected by business and most consumers and they tidy up the desktop and advance it in win9 because it is my backup if Apple messes up OSX. Of course Ubuntu is a safe bet either way it all goes down.

/rant

I had to since a little too much MS circle jerking was going on. If they were getting blasted I would have made a positive post of course. 😀
 
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Microsoft is doomed and making a "comeback" releasing new things ? Windows stooped working ? Office too ?

A software company that havent lost anything any big ground on what it does best is making a comeback with new things 🙂 yeah right, microsoft will never fail and they started to take advantage of the legacy they have.

Will Apple fail again ? No, but they sure will loose ground and for apple that will hurt since they dont have much to begin with but the high profit margin will keep up.

RIM might not be popular in the states or even EU but here in latin america they sell even more than iphones and android devices.
 
roxxette said:
Microsoft is doomed and making a "comeback" releasing new things ? Windows stooped working ? Office too ?

A software company that havent lost anything any big ground on what it does best is making a comeback with new things 🙂 yeah right, microsoft will never fail and they started to take advantage of the legacy they have.

Will Apple fail again ? No, but they sure will loose ground and for apple that will hurt since they dont have much to begin with but the high profit margin will keep up.

RIM might not be popular in the states or even EU but here in latin america they sell even more than iphones and android devices.
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That is true about RIM. I was in London for a week recently and everyone has a Blackberry. Sure there were iPhones but I can say it looked like it was a 4 to 1 advantage RIM to Apple there.
 
I dont see nothing wrong with the xbox metro layout, looks better and ads i dont even notice those 🙂 they dont show up when im playing anyway.
 
marc11 said:
That is true about RIM. I was in London for a week recently and everyone has a Blackberry. Sure there were iPhones but I can say it looked like it was a 4 to 1 advantage RIM to Apple there.
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Theres a market for everything, excuse me American people 😀 but sometimes you guys think the states is the only country in the world and the only that matters, again in latin america people dont give a **** about apple products and even less for androids.
 
roxxette said:
Theres a market for everything, excuse me American people 😀 but sometimes you guys think the states is the only country in the world and the only that matters, again in latin america people dont give a **** about apple products and even less for androids.
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Well, not ALL Americans think like that...not fair to judge 300 million people by the postings of a few and since it is a large market and often a trend indicator it is hard not to take notice. And to be fair, in your own country, with products you use, isn't that all your care about? Why would you care which phones are popular in Japan, unless you lived here?

It very well could be that the Apple adoption rate is a behind the USA in other countries and that trend will be shifting in time. Too many factors to just generalize.
 
Black Magic said:
Check out this very interesting article: http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmer

What are your thoughts?
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I read the article back when it came out, but don't remember enough to discuss the article itself, and dont't feel like retreading it at the moment. But just generally speaking, the future is in mobile computing, and if Windows remains a desktop-only operating system, then the sales numbers would eventually dwindle to just enterprise systems only. IBM, for example, got out of the consumer sector and is doing well as a business targeting enterprise clients, so Microsoft could try a similar shift in their focus, but with Windows 8, they have chosen to compete for the consumer mobile market. I think Win8 is a good start but it has lots of rough edges, and the real question is whether Microsoft can smooth out those edges before the mobile market is completely dominated by IOS and Android.

Even if they fail with Win8, Microsoft is big enough that they could still transition to some other business focus and survive in some shape. But the problem with Microsoft's current position, I think is that, they might have 80 or 90 or whatever percent of the computer market, but a lot of those people are using older versions of Windows / Office software, so that's not making them any money. For example, at our office, we have about 15 computers running XP, and maybe 3-4 running Win7, with no plan to upgrade any of our machines in the next few years. I'm still using Office 2000, and everyone else is using Word Perfect, which i think was last updated sometime in the 90s. Our case might be a bit extreme, but it's an example of a business running 100% Windows but not netting Microsoft any profit over the last decade. So market share doesn't necessarily equal profit. What Microsoft needs to do is convince people and businesses like us to upgrade, and Win8 isn't it.
 
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marc11 said:
Well, not ALL Americans think like that...not fair to judge 300 million people by the postings of a few and since it is a large market and often a trend indicator it is hard not to take notice. And to be fair, in your own country, with products you use, isn't that all your care about? Why would you care which phones are popular in Japan, unless you lived here?

It very well could be that the Apple adoption rate is a behind the USA in other countries and that trend will be shifting in time. Too many factors to just generalize.
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That attitued is very common among americans is a fact, you see the same in other forums and also the few years i spend in the states, im not the first to say something like these 🙂 of course i cant claim ALL americans 😛 but anyway adoption rate is not behind 🙂 its simple that people dont care to pay those prices and that in regards of RIM the blackberry messenger service is a major plus to people around.

Your turning these in something personal mate, i dont care if something is popular on X country, where did i say that ? Im just saying that apple products are probably more popular in the states only and if they start loosing that market it will hurt.
 
roxxette said:
That attitued is very common among americans is a fact, you see the same in other forums and also the few years i spend in the states, im not the first to say something like these 🙂 of course i cant claim ALL americans 😛 but anyway adoption rate is not behind 🙂 its simple that people dont care to pay those prices and that in regards of RIM the blackberry messenger service is a major plus to people around.

Your turning these in something personal mate, i dont care if something is popular on X country, where did i say that ? Im just saying that apple products are probably more popular in the states only and if they start loosing that market it will hurt.
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No I am not turning it personal at all. You made a statement and I disagreed with it; its called opinion; I respected yours and offered my counter; thats called discussion. The worlds bias towards Americans is just as bad as Americans biased toward close minded people in other countries. I can say this as an American, living outside of America, traveling to and living in many countries who has seen both sides of the coin.

But this is not on topic, so no need to really debate it further.
 
Oh no no sorry i didnt mean to say personal in that way 🙂 sometimes i cant find the proper words lol but i agree with what you said; true these is off topic also.
 
roxxette said:
RIM might not be popular in the states or even EU but here in latin america they sell even more than iphones and android devices.
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Ummmm , no. Totally misinformed. You are exhibiting something called preferential bias. You like something, so your mind is forcing you to think its far more popular than it really is.

RIM market share has been hovering around 3% in Latin America for a long time. Android dominates the market and iOS has actually lost considerable market share.

And in EU, iOS holds slightly more market share than Android, although RIM still holds about 14% market share making them a far distant third place as they lose out to both iOS and Android.

Source: http://www.areppim.com/analysis/stats/stats_mobiosxtime_sam.htm
 
I kind or want MS around. It would make me sick if Microsoft could no longer produce windows and Apple licensed out OSX.

I'm sure they won't but the thought makes me ill.
 
Microsoft have never really been innovative. However they have been at their most innovative since about 2007.

80's: Hey let's copy Apple

90's: Dominated markets due to price, compatibility, and third party software rather than actually doing anything good. Used monopoly tactics. Windows 95 is the only thing that springs to mind that was actually new and pretty cool. Okay, it kind of blew in hindsight, but it was better than OS 7, and it set the Windows desktop for the next 12 years.

00's: XP. Nothing really innovative. A good OS, but otherwise just an NT OS with a tellytubby theme. Sat on their backsides for the next 6 years with regards to OS development/browser development, arguably hampering innovation industry wide.

07-12: 3 new OS's, new phone OS which is actually good, surface, metro. Even Internet Explorer has moved from "waste of space" to "mediocre" to "getting there but Chrome is still better".
 
ReallyBigFeet said:
"Neither irony or sarcasm is argument." -Samuel Butler
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Considering I was calling you out on your ironic statement...

...and then you throw a quote my way stating irony isn't an argument...

...okay. Hold up...

...carry the two...

...uh, I think you just nullified your own argument. Which is really kinda ironic when you think about it.

You could call me on on sarcasm, though.
 
Renzatic said:
Considering I was calling you out on your ironic statement...

...and then you throw a quote my way stating irony isn't an argument...

...okay. Hold up...

...carry the two...

...uh, I think you just nullified your own argument. Which is really kinda ironic when you think about it.

You could call me on on sarcasm, though.
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Only you would find irony in stating something on topic and factual. Perhaps you should stick with sarcasm, it suits you better.
 
Don't underestimate Microsoft. They're now where Apple was a decade ago and look what happened. Their products today are completely banal, but there's always another Next Big Thing around the corner. Apple and then Google jumped at the last Next Big Thing (computer-wise) while Microsoft, RIM and Nokia stumbled, but the last two are more likely to go completely under than the former, since that's all they do.

I'm not going to apologise for the schadenfreude of seeing Microsoft flounder, after more than a decade of jabs from Windows-loving co-workers who honestly believed that Microsoft bought Apple in the late 90s, many of whom now have iPhones, iPads and even Macs and come to ask me for advice and help (while I've still never bought a single Windows PC). But dismissing them would be a mistake. The same mistake everyone made a decade and a half ago.

Whether Windows 8 or Windows Phone 8 is any good (I hear it's an unintuitive skin for what is otherwise little more than a Windows 7 Service Pack) is not really the point. They're willing to take big risks, and sometimes when you fire big shots into the dark, even if you don't hit something fully, you sometimes wing it.
 
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