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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
Hello. Been a while. I’m having an issue similar to the one described in this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/how-to-update-macbook-retina-a1534.2309775/

I need to download Adobe Creative Cloud software to my iMac but when I click the DOWNLOAD button for Ai, a box pops up telling me “Update required.” If I click LEARN MORE, it goes to a page that tells me Mac OS minimum requirements including a minimum of:

macOS Mojave (version 10.14) or later.

8GB of RAM (16 GB recommended)
3 GB of available hard -disk space for installation; additional free space required during installation; SSD recommended


I currently have:

OS X El Capitan Version 10.11.6

Processor 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 8 GB 1867 MHz DDR3

When I click the Software Update button from About this Mac, the App Store box opens and tells no updates are available.

To me, it appears that the iMac I am attempting to download the new Adobe software to is not going to meet the requirements and it may not even be able to run the earliest OS that is compatible with that software. I still have free trial Adobe software from 2015 on the computer and I had no problems downloading or using it during the free trial period six years ago. Has that much changed already?

Is there anything else I could try or do I just need a new computer to run the latest Adobe software?
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
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Stalingrad, Russia
I currently have:
Processor 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 8 GB 1867 MHz DDR3

When I click the Software Update button from About this Mac, the App Store box opens and tells no updates are available.
Your Mac can definitely support Mojave 10.14. But you will need to first go to at least Sierra 10.12 with the latest security update to make your Mac APFS ready. I believe Sierra and High Sierra installers are still available in the App Store.
 
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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
Thank you both. I will check that page later today for links to more recent opperating systems.

What year is your iMac?
I bought it brand new in September of 2015.

Your Mac can definitely support Mojave 10.14. But you will need to first go to at least Sierra 10.12 with the latest security update to make your Mac APFS ready. I believe Sierra and High Sierra installers are still available in the App Store.
Mojave 10.14 is the earliest OS that will work with new Adobe software. It sounds like I better install Sierra 10.12 to lay some groundwork before I move up to Mojave. Would it be of any benafit to install each operating system in chronological order since El Capitan before I install Mojave, or should I just go from El Capitan I currently have to Sierra and then up to Mojave?
 

Boyd01

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Feb 21, 2012
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I bought it brand new in September of 2015.

FWIW, you can find your exact iMac model here. Click on it, then scroll down the page to see what version of MacOS originally shipped with it. This is generally the oldest version of MacOS that you will be able to install. It also lists the newest version of MacOS that you can install.

 
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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
FWIW, you can find your exact iMac model here. Click on it, then scroll down the page to see what version of MacOS originally shipped with it. This is generally the oldest version of MacOS that you will be able to install. It also lists the newest version of MacOS that you can install.

Thanks Boyd01. I see 10.11 was the OS my iMac came with installed. That is still the OS I have now. I do not recall ever updating the OS. There was never a need for that since I never relented to the licensing approach of acquiring software. At this point, my school is paying for the software license so I'll throw it on my computer, no problem.

I do not see a list of compatible OS's more recent than that which was originally installed to this 2015 tapered edge iMac on this page. I'll be shooting for Mojave 10.14 after installing Sierra 10.12 as recommended in the response by avz above. I'm still wondering if I should go through installing all of the prior operating systems before I get to Mojave.
 

avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
1,804
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Stalingrad, Russia
Thanks Boyd01. I see 10.11 was the OS my iMac came with installed. That is still the OS I have now. I do not recall ever updating the OS. There was never a need for that since I never relented to the licensing approach of acquiring software. At this point, my school is paying for the software license so I'll throw it on my computer, no problem.

I do not see a list of compatible OS's more recent than that which was originally installed to this 2015 tapered edge iMac on this page. I'll be shooting for Mojave 10.14 after installing Sierra 10.12 as recommended in the response by avz above. I'm still wondering if I should go through installing all of the prior operating systems before I get to Mojave.
There is no need to install all the prior operating systems on your way to Mojave. You can probably go straight to Mojave from El Capitan as well(as Mojave installer will probably update your firmware and convert your HDD to APFS). Installing Sierra with the latest Security Update will update your firmware(APFS ready) and will make your Mojave installation a walk in a park.

P.S. Old HDD's don't always work well with APFS. I personally have no issue with original 7200rpm HDD on my Late 2012 iMac.
 

MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
I’ve been putting this off about as long as I can. I’m reluctant to do this on my own because I know unforeseen problems will arise. I even called AppleCare tonight hoping they could walk me through updating the OS but that was to no avail.

So here I go.

From the link posted above by @CoastalOR , it appears my Mac (highlighted in red) can handle Big Sur.

big.sur.compatability.png



Big Sur updates from El Capitan, the OS I currently have on my computer.
big.sur.updates.from.png



1. Is there any reason that I should only update to Mojave if my computer can handle Big Sur?

2. Also, I’d rather not back up EVERYTHING on my computer by using Time Machine. Is there a way to back up just my current OS (incase I should need it again) by clicking it and dragging to my external HD?
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
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there
1. Is there any reason that I should only update to Mojave if my computer can handle Big Sur?

2. Also, I’d rather not back up EVERYTHING on my computer by using Time Machine. Is there a way to back up just my current OS (incase I should need it again) by clicking it and dragging to my external HD?
Mojave is still vibrant and can work well is our 2021 world
Carbon Copy Cloner (sp?) is loved by many here
.com also has OSx you can make a thumb drive and reinstall from Mavericks to Monterrey, including Mojave.
time machine always worked for me, and I can gather old files when needed.

hope this info helped.
 
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justashooter

macrumors 6502
Apr 8, 2020
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1. Is there any reason that I should only update to Mojave if my computer can handle Big Sur?

2. Also, I’d rather not back up EVERYTHING on my computer by using Time Machine. Is there a way to back up just my current OS (incase I should need it again) by clicking it and dragging to my external HD?
1. If you update to any OS newer than Mojave, your 32 bit applications will no longer work. Catalina and newer OSes require 64 bit apps. I am still on Mojave (because I have some 32 bit apps) but I also find it very, very stable.

2. I'll second the use of carbon copy cloner, great program.
 
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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
Thanks, folks. Mojave it will be then.

If I had easy access to Copy Cloner, I'd use it but since I already have Time Machine, I might as well go with that.

I already have all my files backed up to my external HD and they are organized into folders exactly as they are on my Mac. I hated the way Time Machine organized my 2 thousand+ photos by date on my exterrnal HD and then I had to go through them all and reorganize into albums as they are on my computer.

If I use Time machine to back up my current OS, will it also back up the files I already have stored on my external HD a second time? That seems like a lot of unnecessary time and use of hardware when all I need is a copy of my old OS.
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
809
676
Thanks, folks. Mojave it will be then.

If I had easy access to Copy Cloner, I'd use it but since I already have Time Machine, I might as well go with that.

I already have all my files backed up to my external HD and they are organized into folders exactly as they are on my Mac. I hated the way Time Machine organized my 2 thousand+ photos by date on my exterrnal HD and then I had to go through them all and reorganize into albums as they are on my computer.

If I use Time machine to back up my current OS, will it also back up the files I already have stored on my external HD a second time? That seems like a lot of unnecessary time and use of hardware when all I need is a copy of my old OS.
I hate to tell you this but support for the older OSes by Adobe is limited. Mojave will no longer run Adobe Creative Cloud apps in 2022. The oldest OS that it will support will be Catalina. That too will go away come 2023.

Adobe is always updating their software, as such, you cannot lock the software to a specific version like you could in the past (i.e. purchased software that you physically own the media for). This means that in order to continue using their software, you have to continually update your OS and hardware to keep pace.

Adobe is expensive as all hell. If you have no actual need to use said products, I would suggest looking at other alternatives that are not subscription based. There are a host of other applications that do basically the same thing for much less. I will tell you this without any reservation... you will spend far more leasing software from Adobe than you would have spent back in the day buying their suite of software. All of their software leasing agreements come with a gotcha. You think to yourself, I need to use Illustrator for a couple of months. I'll sign up for 3 months and be good. $25 a month isn't too bad. Oh, but you didn't just sign on for 3 months, you signed up for an annual agreement that you pay monthly installments on. You stop after 3 months, they bill you, immediately for the remaining months of the year.

Be forwarned. If you don't use Adobe apps for business, you really can't afford to use them... unless you are wealthy. Being that you are running an older setup, I'd say you don't fall under the wealthy category.

My advice, look for alternative software. Unless you must deliver content in Adobe format, there are other alternatives out there that are better for your wallet.
 
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Boyd01

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Feb 21, 2012
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If you don't use Adobe apps for business, you really can't afford to use them... unless you are wealthy.

Well I'm certainly not the guy to defend Adobe's policies and pricing, but I really can't agree with that statement. I have used Photoshop since I don't know when.... 20 years? It used to be that Photoshop Elements was basically the same program that was just missing a few advanced features. It was pretty cheap, in fact, it was bundled for free with many scanners and digital cameras. I bought the full version of Photoshop around 2008 which it was quite expensive, over $300. But I continued using it until around 2018 when it became too crash-prone under Sierra. Picked up a new version of Photoshop Elements for $60 but it has become more limited and less like the full version.

I can work quickly in Photoshop and it does what I need, my time is more valuable than the few bucks I might save by switching. So, I now have their Photography plan which is $10/month. It also includes Lightroom and a bunch of other stuff I don't use. Being able to afford that doesn't meet my definition of "wealthy", but I'll admit that standards can vary. :)

@MacMythos - you can get the free CCC 30 day trial here and just use that. Any clones that you create will be usable in the future even without their software (although it is well worth the purchase price IMO). I also use Time Machine, but wouldn't want to rely solely on it for backups.


Regarding 32-bit apps, I use Mountain Lion and Sierra virtual machines in Parallels to run those. That might be a little tight on your iMac with only 8gb however.
 
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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
I'll take my time and be cautiously optimistic about licensing Adobe software. There were special rates for teachers to license these products a while back. It looked fairly affordable but I understand looks can be deceiving as is often the case when signing a contract for cellphone service. I hate that. The good news is right now, I don't have to pay for the Creative Cloud software! I'm a teacher and my school has the whole Creative Cloud selection. I already am familiar with Illustrator and Photoshop but I have to learn a few more programs to build our little digital art program.

I hate to tell you this but support for the older OSes by Adobe is limited. Mojave will no longer run Adobe Creative Cloud apps in 2022. The oldest OS that it will support will be Catalina. That too will go away come 2023.

Adobe is always updating their software, as such, you cannot lock the software to a specific version like you could in the past (i.e. purchased software that you physically own the media for). This means that in order to continue using their software, you have to continually update your OS and hardware to keep pace.

....
I can update my current Mac to the latest OS if necessary but as mentioned in the above comments, some of the 32 bit apps that were originally installed to my Mac will not work if I update beyond Mojave. I'm not sure being unable to use some apps would be much of a problem. I haven't used any of them in the last seven years other than Pages, Photos and Safari.

@MacMythos - you can get the free CCC 30 day trial here and just use that.
I used my 30 day trial of Ai and PS years ago...back when those ran with El Capitan. I had considered using the 30 day trials for the softwares I am unfamiliar with but those too would have required the update to at least Mojave which I have now accomplished.

I also use Time Machine, but wouldn't want to rely solely on it for backups.
Speaking of that and the new OS, I had all my files saved to my external HD already. The only thing I needed was my El Capitan OS to be saved. As it turns out, Apple doesn't support going back to an old OS after updating to a newer one. If that is the case, I see no reason to save the old OS to Time Machine or any other backup method. I was told it is possible to restore an older OS but Apple does not recommend it and they will not help you do it.

I kind of punked out on updating to Mojave. I called AppleCare. I'm very glad I did though because the first attempt failed and my computer would start up but would not go to the screen where you sin in. It was useless. I would have had no way to ask questions here unless I used a computer outside of my home to access the internet and I would have not remembered my sign in info for MacRumors anyway, it's on my computer. I would have been stranded. I got an Apple supervisor on the phone after the failed attempt. He was able to tell me the steps to hack into my computer to try Mojave a second time and it worked. I'm very grateful for all the advice here (from which I learned a lot) but I wouldn't try updating an OS on my own again any time soon. For now, I just use computers but I have no desire to fix them if something goes wrong.

Hopefully now all I need to do is sign into my school Creative Cloud account, download and start learning the software. Keep an eye out though, I will probably have questions. I may end up being like you folks after a while, not only knowing how to work with a computer but knowing how to work on them too. My goal is to not only be an art teacher but a computer teacher as well.

Thanks for all of the help.

Daron
 

MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
It's really cool how the Mojave screen saver turns to nighttime. I assume the sun will come out during daytime hours. Neat.
 

Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
I used my 30 day trial of Ai and PS years ago...back when those ran with El Capitan.

I think you may have misunderstood my post, sorry. CCC = Carbon Copy Cloner. I was responding to this post and pointing out that you could user the free trial.

If I had easy access to Copy Cloner, I'd use it but since I already have Time Machine, I might as well go with that.
 
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MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
I can't use my school Adobe account on my computer at home afterall. Trying that resulted in my account "expiring." :mad: Adobe must detect the IP address of the computer the software is downloaded to. I'll need to get my own Adobe account if I want to work at home.

Next question...

It looks like new computers for the art room next year. I’m sure it will be expected that these computers will be in service for at least ten years. It sounds like some of you use older versions of Adobe software to avoid expensive hardware upgrades. With the licensing arrangement, will Adobe continue to supply older versions of software that are compatible with older computers? …or does an Adobe account automatically update software to the latest versions which may not be compatible with older computers?
 

Boyd01

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Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
7,804
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
Think you will have to ask Adobe about most of that. It appears that they do push out updates to the cloud apps whenever they want to. The last one gave me a warning that it required Big Sur but I am still on Catalina. But, as far as I can tell, everything still works fine on Catalina. So, guess that the incompatibility might be some new feature that I don't use, or else could just be CYA, saying it's not compatible simply because they didn't test it on Catalina.

Anyway, if a version comes out that seriously isn't compatible with my computer, I've gotta believe that it just won't get installed. They are not going to stop taking my money because my operating system is old, I'd expect I'll just remain on the last version that does work on Catalina.
 

MacMythos

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 11, 2009
43
1
Think you will have to ask Adobe about most of that. It appears that they do push out updates to the cloud apps whenever they want to. The last one gave me a warning that it required Big Sur but I am still on Catalina. But, as far as I can tell, everything still works fine on Catalina. So, guess that the incompatibility might be some new feature that I don't use, or else could just be CYA, saying it's not compatible simply because they didn't test it on Catalina.

Anyway, if a version comes out that seriously isn't compatible with my computer, I've gotta believe that it just won't get installed. They are not going to stop taking my money because my operating system is old, I'd expect I'll just remain on the last version that does work on Catalina.
When I downloaded Ai to my 2015 iMac that had the OS updated to Mojave, I remember there being a message telling me that an older version of Ai had been installed because the latest version of Ai was not compatible with my computer. I suspect you are correct, Adobe will give you the software that works with your computer as long as you pay a licensing fee. Working with the new Adobe software at school, it appears that the most current Photoshop and Illustrator still do much the same thing as the CS2 I learned back in 2009. There's a few more tools in the latest software and some of the old tools are accessed differently than they had been in the past. I don't think the average high school student would appreciate the nuances. Old software would still provide a good learning experience. I will talk to Adobe about this and report back here.
 
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