You have never used an S-Pen. The S-Pen has a digital connection with the screen, you even don't have to touch the screen. There is nothing similar for the iPad.
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iPad Is pen input important?
- Thread starter rowspaxe
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You have never used an S-Pen. The S-Pen has a digital connection with the screen, you even don't have to touch the screen. There is nothing similar for the iPad.
I played with a friends Samsung Note Pro 12.2 and its pretty nice. I really like the s-pen integration across the board. It would be nice if Apple would provide a pen sdk support within iOS. That way Apple doesn't have to create their own pen others such as Wacom can just support the API.
I have the Evernote Jot Pen and love it. Just wish more apps supported pen functionality. Better yet if the entire iOS supported pens.
I have the Evernote Jot Pen and love it. Just wish more apps supported pen functionality. Better yet if the entire iOS supported pens.
I don't get the big deal. The Wacom Creative Intuos Pen is supposed to be really good.
Actually, a lot of artists like having an iPad but want pen input. They go to all these drastic measures to get the pen to work. So, it seems that if they're willing to go through all that trouble. Steve Jobs was wrong. Pens are good for iPads. It's just a precision tool, not meant to change the entire experience.
Just because the Surface has one doesn't mean that we should stay away from having a pen altogether. Microsoft isn't the antithesis to Apple. It's not even a real competitor anymore. They're clinging to their workplace domination.
Anyways, I think having a pen would be great for artists and students. It would give iPads a bit of an edge. Why bother with the pathetic Surface line-up if your iPad supports pen input too?
Actually, a lot of artists like having an iPad but want pen input. They go to all these drastic measures to get the pen to work. So, it seems that if they're willing to go through all that trouble. Steve Jobs was wrong. Pens are good for iPads. It's just a precision tool, not meant to change the entire experience.
Just because the Surface has one doesn't mean that we should stay away from having a pen altogether. Microsoft isn't the antithesis to Apple. It's not even a real competitor anymore. They're clinging to their workplace domination.
Anyways, I think having a pen would be great for artists and students. It would give iPads a bit of an edge. Why bother with the pathetic Surface line-up if your iPad supports pen input too?
It seems a lot posters feel that third party stylus's are doing the job. But for most users lack of an active digitizer makes the ipad pen experience unproductive.
Another common reponse is to question how many potential pen users are in the ipad market--which topped 71 million in ipads sold. I would guess conservatively 10-20 percent. Tnats a lot of "ipens"--which the current aftermarket prices for inferior stylus's at over $100.
It has to be a pretty big market if Wacom is still pushing out new models. There's also Adobe who've just released their stuff. There's also Ten One Design who are still around too.
The Creative Pen is way too big IMO. It works well, but it doesn't feel very good in the hands compared to the Bamboo ones or even the ones that come with the Intuos tablets.
The Creative Pen is way too big IMO. It works well, but it doesn't feel very good in the hands compared to the Bamboo ones or even the ones that come with the Intuos tablets.
If you can suggest one that is as precise as an active digitiser, lets the iPad distinguish between pen and finger touches and does "palm rejection" then I'd be interested.
Of course, if you've never used an active digitiser then we're at loggerheads.
That is slightly, but significantly different than what you said before:
There are a few bluetooth stylii (like the Adonit Jot Touch and Script) for the iPad that differentiate between pen and fingers. They are not "as precise as an active digitizer" but they are far more precise than a "conductive plastic finger".
Obviously it is preferable to have an active digitizer for pen input, but given the lack of one in the iPad, there are options to allow it to do more than a rubber nub and sufficient for "mainstream" usage.
As someone that has been digital artwork and design for a good many years, and has a Wacom 24HD on his desk at home, a part of me would love to have pen input. However, the fact remains that the configuration of the iPad is as the creators intended, which is as a content consumption device. In its essence, it was never intended for drawn content creation and, despite the bevy of apps available for that purposes, Apple has never, to my knowledge, advertised it as such.
I feel a lot of those clamoring for a digitiser in the iPad don't give enough consideration to the sheer amount of work, from an engineering perspective, that would have to be done to include it. And more to the point is the consideration of from where the technology would come: either Apple would have to go through the not-inconsiderably expensive process, both in money and man-hours, to develop an entirely in-house solution, or it would have to license it, probably from Wacom, which is the de facto standard. In regards to Wacom, it would not surprise me in the least to find that part of the agreement with Microsoft in licensing Windows for use on the Companion line was that Wacom had to agree not to license the digitiser technology to another tablet line for a certain period. Even were that not the case, you can guarantee that the per-unit licencing fee would be fairly steep, and Apple isn't going to tolerate a niche product like that cutting into their margins.
There has been a great deal of talk, for a very long time, about the much-rumored iPad pro, and that it would probably have a digitiser. I personally discount this, as Apple would be enable to justify the cost of production given the probable sales figures. However, those who want the traditional digital pen experience with Apple flavour have options. Very expensive options, like the ModBook, but they exist. Such things are not intended for enthusiasts or students, but professionals that make their living at it, and they are priced accordingly, but then so are desktop Wacom tablets.
I feel a lot of those clamoring for a digitiser in the iPad don't give enough consideration to the sheer amount of work, from an engineering perspective, that would have to be done to include it. And more to the point is the consideration of from where the technology would come: either Apple would have to go through the not-inconsiderably expensive process, both in money and man-hours, to develop an entirely in-house solution, or it would have to license it, probably from Wacom, which is the de facto standard. In regards to Wacom, it would not surprise me in the least to find that part of the agreement with Microsoft in licensing Windows for use on the Companion line was that Wacom had to agree not to license the digitiser technology to another tablet line for a certain period. Even were that not the case, you can guarantee that the per-unit licencing fee would be fairly steep, and Apple isn't going to tolerate a niche product like that cutting into their margins.
There has been a great deal of talk, for a very long time, about the much-rumored iPad pro, and that it would probably have a digitiser. I personally discount this, as Apple would be enable to justify the cost of production given the probable sales figures. However, those who want the traditional digital pen experience with Apple flavour have options. Very expensive options, like the ModBook, but they exist. Such things are not intended for enthusiasts or students, but professionals that make their living at it, and they are priced accordingly, but then so are desktop Wacom tablets.
Is pen input important?
Wacom has the new Fineline and Creative 2. They will be dead close to an active digitizer and feel more like a traditional low tier Wacom tablet. The nibs look to be the same size.
You pair these to every app you use BTW. The first time you do it, the app automatically detects it. This DOESNT allow for the multitouch to get in the way.
Wacom has the new Fineline and Creative 2. They will be dead close to an active digitizer and feel more like a traditional low tier Wacom tablet. The nibs look to be the same size.
You pair these to every app you use BTW. The first time you do it, the app automatically detects it. This DOESNT allow for the multitouch to get in the way.
Other products have it, which is all that we need to know. Samsung's Note line and Microsoft's Surface are the big examples; neither device seems to suffer much in the way of battery life, form factor, or overall performance for their inclusion of the active digitizer. I'm sure that it would require a good amount of work for Apple to put it in, but we're not asking them to do something that has never been done before.
As to where the technology would come from, Wacom isn't the only game in town. They may be the best, but Microsoft recently switched over to N-Trig with the Surface Pro 3. I'd be very surprised if there were no other companies that could either license technology or be bought out and brought in-house. I agree with your suspicion that the sticking point is over what Apple's vision for the iPad as a content consumption device would be, and the fact that adding an active digitizer could dramatically alter that.
Those products do have them, but with significant differences of form. The Note 3 is 10% thicker than the iPad Air, and yet the digitiser has to support only a bit more than half the surface area. Likewise the SP3 digitiser does support a greater surface area than the iPad, yet the Surface is 20% thicker than the iPad and has 75% more weight. As you agreed later in your reply, the iPad is, first and foremost, a consumption device, or at the very least that is Apple's philosophy regarding it, and part of its evolution has been to decrease its footprint with each successive generation; indeed the near-universal acclaim for the Air has been its "impossibly thin" form factor. Since Apple obviously won't take a step back in that regard, nor should they, I stand by my original statement that the engineering challenges to incorporating an active digitiser into the iPad without sacrificing that factor would be an enormous undertaking.
I'm certain that there are conceivably other companies out there, but I question how many, if any, have the resources or competence to produce a product that can compete with Wacom. Both N-Trig and Samsung's digitisers are acceptable for note-taking, but for line art they're a joke. Only the Cintiq, a far more expensive device than the iPad, even reaches passable performance.
ipad air: 7.5mm thick, weighs 1lb., 9.7" screen, 10 hours watching video battery life.
Lenovo thinkpad tablet 10: 9.8mm, weighs 1.29lbs., 10.1" display, 10 hours video streaming battery life.
I think that's a valid comparison and much better than comparing the SP3 which is meant to be more of an ultrabook competitor. The Thinkpad tablet 10 is also competitively priced with the ipad air. It has a Wacom digitizer and stylus. That somewhat throws out the thickness and weight, although that larger display on the Lenovo may balance that out. It throws out the battery life and cost issue as well. (not that I buy the SP3 argument, it's a MUCH larger screen and a desktop class processor so we would expect more weight, but still apples to oranges).
Besides the ipad as a consumption device is almost virtually all due to its software, not its hardware other than the lack of digitizer. Still look at OneNote on android and how incredible that is with a stylus. Look at all the drawing and graphics programs, etc etc. The ipad CAN be more than a consumption device.
I confess that I know little to nothing about the implementation of digitizers. You might be right that the differences in thickness and weight are attributable to the digitizer, but those differences might also be due to other reasons. Apple is an industry leader in slimming electronics (including laptops and desktop computers); it could very well be that the other products are thicker not because of the digitizer, but because their focus isn't on being the thinnest, or because their engineers can't yet match Apple's in that regard.
It's speculation on both our parts, but given how competing devices aren't that much thicker than Apple's devices and there are other possible reasons for their thickness, I suspect that Apple could add in an active digitizer without taking a hit to the physical form factor of their devices.
As much as I wish I had artistic talent, I'm interested in the active digitizer for handwriting and not for art. Regardless, even if these solutions are behind Wacom, they can only get better from here. And who knows how much improvement there could be if Apple got involved? Capacitive touch screens weren't particularly impressive before Apple debuted the iPhone. Even after the iPhone came out, it took a while for other companies to catch up in terms of sensitivity and responsiveness.
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/patents-smart-pens/
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Hello...ipad3
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Sp 1,2,3; the Sony vaio duo 13, and the Lenovo thinkpad yoga are all very good.
I hadn't heard of these before (probably because they're fairly new), but they look promising. I didn't have much luck with the Adonit Jot Pro 2nd generation (skipping issues), and also worried that the disc tip was a bit delicate... these look very nice. The Fineline seems to have received negative reviews about the "touch" appearing offset from the actual tip; I haven't seen any reviews for the Creative 2 yet, but if it doesn't have those issues then it might be the stylus to go for. Thank you for mentioning them.
Apple has patents for every bloody thing under the sun. But there are miles of hard works between idea and execution. Jobs understood that very well, and often said as much.
Hello...Retina Display. They were willing to take a step back that cycle for a feature that the majority of buyers wanted, and many had come to expect because of the iPhone 4. But we're not talking about a similar feature. Those that want simple note-taking already have numerous options, and they're becoming better with each refresh; Jessica Lares already pointed out Wacom's new pens. But an active digitiser for artistic purposes is a world apart.
There have been definite improvements, but there is still quite a way to go to match Wacom performance.
The Adonit Jot was problematic, yeah. I sold my non-Bluetooth version earlier this year when I bought the Creative. It felt a lot better in the hand in comparison though. The Fineline seems like it'll be better in the hands still even though the Creative 2 seems a lot slimmer this time around. Probably will end up buying both because of that, heh.
I'm sure Wacom will be able to issue a SDK update to help with the offset.
And yeah, I've been doodling on my iPad tonight. I did not notice any tap tap tap tap. I came back to my Intuos though and did get the tap tap tap. It's all in the pressure you put on the pen.
talks about the pen are something like widgets. you dont need it when you dont have them, but they are great when they are added finally.
a tablet without creative tools is a toy.
i had Air and e.g. Adonit Jot Pro for writing. the experience was laggy, sometimes losted bt connection, inaccurate feeling etc. overal experince was horrible, but.. i have been using Note for two years now, so i had something to compare. sold my Air on summer.
a tablet without creative tools is a toy.
i had Air and e.g. Adonit Jot Pro for writing. the experience was laggy, sometimes losted bt connection, inaccurate feeling etc. overal experince was horrible, but.. i have been using Note for two years now, so i had something to compare. sold my Air on summer.
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Are you using the original Creative? Maybe I'll add you to my contact list so that I can follow up with you later to get your thoughts on the Fineline and/or Creative 2
I'm guessing you use your styluses mostly for art, but do you also use them to write with?
Are you using the original Creative? Maybe I'll add you to my contact list so that I can follow up with you later to get your thoughts on the Fineline and/or Creative 2
Yeah, I use the original Creative. I'll try and pick either of the new ones next month.
I have a Clamcase Pro, so if I'm doing notes, I'm typing most of it, and doing my little annotations and whatever with the pen.