MP 7,1 Is Premiere still not using the GPU for R3d video?

[chfilm]

Hey guys,

I just got my first project with R3d 6k footage to work on the new mac pro 16c VEGA II, and am a bit shocked that this is how my system usage looks like:

CPU completely maxed out during playback, while the GPU sits idle. I thought we have metal support for Red footage nowadays on mac and if we want to help speed that up, better GPU was recommended everywhere over an afterburner for example or even more cores.
Is it possible that Adobe still hasn't implemented that metal playback into Premiere, 11 months later?? Anybody else noticed this?

 

[bsbeamer]

Unsure, but any short clip of raw 6K you have access that could be posted to help others test?

 

[chfilm]

Unsure, but any short clip of raw 6K you have access that could be posted to help others test?

hm, sadly not from this project, as it's highly confidential...

 

[bsbeamer]

Haven't worked with any 6K material in Premiere Pro since the 14.5 update. Likely will be several weeks or much longer before I'd even have access to test anything on an iMac/eGPU setup to confirm, or say if processor helps at all. Most corporate projects are going 1080 or 720 right now. So much mixed quality footage being delivered and sourced globally with COVID restrictions.

 

[chfilm]

Haven't worked with any 6K material in Premiere Pro since the 14.5 update. Likely will be several weeks or much longer before I'd even have access to test anything on an iMac/eGPU setup to confirm, or say if processor helps at all. Most corporate projects are going 1080 or 720 right now. So much mixed quality footage being delivered and sourced globally with COVID restrictions.

Well, was playing around a bit, in Resolve you can clearly see the GPU acceleration taking over a lot of the CPU usage, it plays back super smooth and I have only 40% CPU usage or so, while the GPU gets to work. Frustrating, shame on you Adobe once again!

 

[ArPe]

Hey guys,

I just got my first project with R3d 6k footage to work on the new mac pro 16c VEGA II, and am a bit shocked that this is how my system usage looks like: View attachment 1569642

CPU completely maxed out during playback, while the GPU sits idle. I thought we have metal support for Red footage nowadays on mac and if we want to help speed that up, better GPU was recommended everywhere over an afterburner for example or even more cores.
Is it possible that Adobe still hasn't implemented that metal playback into Premiere, 11 months later?? Anybody else noticed this?

Proprietary codec. Without dedicated hardware Premiere does software decoding of Red on macOS and Windows, even with Red’s own player app. The GPU is assisting with display drawing and grading.

Resolve has supported Red longer, maybe it’s smart cache is faster too.

You have to reduce the quality of your playback window to 1/2 or 1/4 and adjust your proxy settings.

 

[LeonPro]

It is software decoding, but it's still Premiere's fault for not tossing that processing to the GPU unlike Resolve. The problem is Adobe still relies on CPU processing (and not even good as harnessing multiple cores past 12). It is a big old ship that can't correct its current course without a software overhaul.

I'm an Adobe Enterprise user and unfortunately stuck on their platform.

 

[ArPe]

It is software decoding, but it's still Premiere's fault for not tossing that processing to the GPU unlike Resolve. The problem is Adobe still relies on CPU processing (and not even good as harnessing multiple cores past 12). It is a big old ship that can't correct its current course without a software overhaul.

I'm an Adobe Enterprise user and unfortunately stuck on their platform.

its not exactly that super efficient in Resolve either. I get all CPU cores loading up with Red with some GPU assistance. If AMD and Nvidia release drivers that feature Red hardware decode then that makes it much easier for third party app developers. GPU drivers are the essential ingredient here and it’s not that easy when working with proprietary codecs, that’s why Red had to sell a Rocket card for so many years.

Also please note OP, the compression ratio of your raw footage also has an impact. You’re not just decoding the video, your computer also has to decompress the raw data.

Shooting with RED Epic #7: Difference Between REDCODE Data Ratios | The Black and Blue

The RED Epic, with its 5K resolution and low compression options, can be the biggest enabler of data bloat if you let it. That's why it's crucial to understand the difference between the various REDCODE data ratios that range from 3:1 all the way to 18:1.

www.theblackandblue.com

 

[bsbeamer]

For years I found the old RED workflow of REDCINE X and FCP7 or PPRO a lot easier in many ways. The footage was also treated with more respect (especially to the DP) and it really could "fix" some shots before producers would 100% eliminate or complain. Required a traditional film-style workflow, but allowed for modern improvements - first-pass color grade, batch process, import, edit, then conform/replace and true color grade. The drop-down LUT and hardware acceleration killed this. Lots of benefits, but getting back to that style would really help a lot of projects.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

Make sure you have the latest RED/Apple workflow app installed. Be aware that RED has added a new type of R3Ds to support Komodo and presumably their next gen DSMC3 platform. Until this year, RED used a J2K variant - wavelet, entropy codec - to stuff as much image data as possible into a +/- 300MB/s pipeline. The new version uses a DCT variant that requires roughly double the space to hold a similar amount of image data.
The DCT R3Ds have the advantage of needing less processing power, at both encode and decode, than J2K R3Ds. With the rapid fall in storage costs, the idea is that a 2T drive in 2021 will cost only slightly more than a 1T drive did in 2019. By switching to a less computationally intensive codec, smooth playback and responsive editing will be possible on machines that used to struggle with 4/6/8K material.
Not sure which R3D type the OP is working with, but if it is from the recently released RED Komodo I'd check two things.
1) Make sure you can read files from storage at 500MB/s or better. The J2K R3Ds max out at 300MB/s, but the DCT R3Ds can be more.
2) Go to the RED site and download the latest versions. With the recent addition of a new codec to the RED ecosystem, optimized integration with the myriad software/hardware combos out there might take a minute.

 

[chfilm]

Make sure you have the latest RED/Apple workflow app installed. Be aware that RED has added a new type of R3Ds to support Komodo and presumably their next gen DSMC3 platform. Until this year, RED used a J2K variant - wavelet, entropy codec - to stuff as much image data as possible into a +/- 300MB/s pipeline. The new version uses a DCT variant that requires roughly double the space to hold a similar amount of image data.
The DCT R3Ds have the advantage of needing less processing power, at both encode and decode, than J2K R3Ds. With the rapid fall in storage costs, the idea is that a 2T drive in 2021 will cost only slightly more than a 1T drive did in 2019. By switching to a less computationally intensive codec, smooth playback and responsive editing will be possible on machines that used to struggle with 4/6/8K material.
Not sure which R3D type the OP is working with, but if it is from the recently released RED Komodo I'd check two things.
1) Make sure you can read files from storage at 500MB/s or better. The J2K R3Ds max out at 300MB/s, but the DCT R3Ds can be more.
2) Go to the RED site and download the latest versions. With the recent addition of a new codec to the RED ecosystem, optimized integration with the myriad software/hardware combos out there might take a minute.

What do you mean by red/apple workflow app?

 

[OkiRun]

Haven't worked with any 6K material in Premiere Pro since the 14.5 update. Likely will be several weeks or much longer before I'd even have access to test anything on an iMac/eGPU setup to confirm, or say if processor helps at all. Most corporate projects are going 1080 or 720 right now. So much mixed quality footage being delivered and sourced globally with COVID restrictions.

Wow ~ you ares so correct in this analysis. The last month, editors have almost exclusively working with 1080 - and broadcasting in Japan (in many prefectures) don't send out in 4k so 1080 is no issue. COVID.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

chfilm, try this:

Downloads Details

www.red.com

 

[chfilm]

chfilm, try this:

Downloads Details

www.red.com

thanks!

 

[OkiRun]

chfilm ~
are you running big sur version?
I only ask because our UA software, including UAD, Apollo, and LUNA, is not currently compatible with macOS Big Sur.

 

[chfilm]

chfilm ~
are you running big sur version?
I only ask because our UA software, including UAD, Apollo, and LUNA, is not currently compatible with macOS Big Sur.

Im on catalina.

 

[OkiRun]

Im on catalina.

I found this site and will try this weekend - when editors are gone - using PP

Sample RED R3D Files - RawFilm Blog

Below you find sample RED R3D footage shot on RED Helium & RED Epic Dragon cameras.

blog.raw.film

 

[OkiRun]

Hello _chfilm ^
This is best I can do. I:m not one of the editors ^ am just the boss.
I downloaded Helium 8k RED and then did 3 streams at same time in PP.
Made a video to show playback.
Recorded cpu and then gpu while playing the clips.
Hope this helps in someway.
Sorry but I won:t be able to get on the machine again for a week.

 

[OkiRun]

The PP .mov is too big to load ^ showing the playback.
Do you have an idea?

It plays back very smooth in PP -

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This plays back choppy. I don:t know why.

[edit] maybe plays back better using Chrome

 

[LeonPro]

Premiere Pro has always made use of the CPU more than GPU, unfortunately.

What is the compression ratio of the RED file you are using? I took a sample of a 6K R3D file at 3:1 and this is what's showing playing back at full resolution on an XDR (seeing dropped frame, of course):

100% CPU use, 31% GPU use

 

[OkiRun]

Premiere Pro has always made use of the CPU more than GPU, unfortunately.

What is the compression ratio of the RED file you are using? I took a sample of a 6K R3D file at 3:1 and this is what's showing playing back at full resolution on an XDR (seeing dropped frame, of course):

100% CPU use, 31% GPU use

View attachment 1668517

That's very interesting to read that you had frame drops.
With 3 simultaneous streams of 8k RED, I did not see this with playback in PP.

 

[LeonPro]

That's very interesting to read that you had frame drops.
With 3 simultaneous streams of 8k RED, I did not see this with playback in PP.

I have to clarify that it really depends on the R3D compression ratio of the recorded file. I can play R3D 8K files fine but at high compression rates (i.e. 1:10).

What is the compression rate of each of those files? I'm wiling to bet it's high compression though.

This 6K file I was playing in single stream has a compression of 3:1.

 

[bsbeamer]

Type of SSD and configuration is also a factor. Not all NVMe and SSD is created equal, especially if RAID is involved.

 

[OkiRun]

I have to clarify that it really depends on the R3D compression ratio of the recorded file. I can play R3D 8K files fine but at high compression rates (i.e. 1:10).

What is the compression rate of each of those files? I'm wiling to bet it's high compression though.

This 6K file I was playing in single stream has a compression of 3:1.

View attachment 1668700

Ahhhh ~
I went to website of the RED - it reads:
RED HELIUM 8K | 8192×4320 | 24p | REDCODE 8:1 – DOWNLOAD R3D
The compression is indeed much higher than 3:1.
There is a file for 4:1. RED DRAGON 5K | 5120×2700 | 24p | REDCODE 4:1 – DOWNLOAD R3D
But I don't think chfilm cares anymore.

 

[chfilm]

Ahhhh ~
I went to website of the RED - it reads:
RED HELIUM 8K | 8192×4320 | 24p | REDCODE 8:1 – DOWNLOAD R3D
The compression is indeed much higher than 3:1.
There is a file for 4:1. RED DRAGON 5K | 5120×2700 | 24p | REDCODE 4:1 – DOWNLOAD R3D
But I don't think chfilm cares anymore.

Hm I need to check some different red files in a few days, I’m right in the middle of the next Projekt, this time on Sony Venice 6K... again, absolutely unplayable in premiere, resolve goes through it like butter....