Is Samsung going tizen?

beosound3200

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Original poster
Nov 23, 2010
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do you think samsung is going tizen?

i read somewhere its pretty easy to port apps from android to tizen so an app store shouldnt be an issue.

also, it would enable samsung vertical integration.

if you take cues from history, its absolutely plausible, link

what do you think? would you want them to?
 

JaySoul

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Jan 30, 2008
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No, they had their massive meeting with Google recently and it seems they've shelved the mass threat of Tizen.
 

vomhorizon

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Sep 24, 2013
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The've got some time to go so do not have to make a call for some time. They'll introduce a few tizen phones in the future and if the software looks good they'll push it into more and more devices. Thats how they came aboard Android if i am not mistaken.
 

jamezr

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Aug 7, 2011
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do you think samsung is going tizen?

i read somewhere its pretty easy to port apps from android to tizen so an app store shouldnt be an issue.

also, it would enable samsung vertical integration.

if you take cues from history, its absolutely plausible, link

what do you think? would you want them to?
It looks like they have quite a few Tizen phones.......but my guess is they will be released mainly overseas. That is unless it catches on and they can create something as good as Android....

http://www.tizenphones.com/

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/apple-and-samsungs-new-tizen-strategy-2014-3
 

Oletros

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Jul 27, 2009
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do you think samsung is going tizen?

i read somewhere its pretty easy to port apps from android to tizen so an app store shouldnt be an issue.

also, it would enable samsung vertical integration.

if you take cues from history, its absolutely plausible, link

what do you think? would you want them to?
Anything related to Android/Google/Samsung and Daniel Eran Dilger as source can be automatically discarded.

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It looks like they have quite a few Tizen phones......
They don't have any Tizen phone right now
 

jamezr

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Aug 7, 2011
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jamezr

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True...they have devices ready but have delayed because they do not have the apps to support the devices. It would be a mistake to release a phone without killer apps. They have been inviting Devs to write apps for Tizen and throwing money at them.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/hands-on-with-samsungs-tizen-os-a-impressively-capable-android-clone/

The big problem for Tizen, though, is apps. While Tizen isn't finished, at this point it seems like nothing more than an Android clone. Samsung has yet to demonstrate a compelling reason for anyone to pick a Tizen device over Android or even demonstrate why it chose to spend resources developing Tizen instead of creating a Google-less AOSP fork. Our best guess is that it has become a matter of pride for the company. With Android OEMs having to deal with extensive rules and restrictions dictated by Google, Samsung would like to control the software end-to-end. Building the OS is the easy part, though. The hard part is solving the chicken-and-egg scenario of app support, where no one makes apps for Tizen because no one buys Tizen phones, and no one buys Tizen phones because there are no apps for them. Samsung will try to convince customers that app drawer shortcuts to mobile webpages count as "apps," but that has never been good enough in the past.
 

hovscorpion12

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Sep 12, 2011
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yes, but their tizen phones will be overseas (Korea , china...etc). as far as US Tizen Samsung phones. NO. Samsung holds 80% of android OS in the US and Google will not let Samsung use tizen instead of Android
 

jamezr

macrumors G5
Aug 7, 2011
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yes, but their tizen phones will be overseas (Korea , china...etc). as far as US Tizen Samsung phones. NO. Samsung holds 80% of android OS in the US and Google will not let Samsung use tizen instead of Android
Agreed.....it would be years or if ever a Tizen phone would come to the US......
 

beosound3200

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Original poster
Nov 23, 2010
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The've got some time to go so do not have to make a call for some time. They'll introduce a few tizen phones in the future and if the software looks good they'll push it into more and more devices. Thats how they came aboard Android if i am not mistaken.
exactly! thats why im asking

most people dont buy google, they buy samsung. and what samsung runs? who cares.

the same transition from symbian right?

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Anything related to Android/Google/Samsung and Daniel Eran Dilger as source can be automatically discarded.
why? did you read entire article? is there smth wrong in it?
 

beosound3200

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Nov 23, 2010
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Almost all of it?
so none of that happened? hes making up all of it?

idk, it makes perfect sense to me and is well backed up.

all i know is, android premiums are stagnant and the rest arent making much money. it makes sense for samsung to differentiate itself from the rest. vertical integration is the next logical step. this time not only touchwiz.

then we'll exchange one open source os with another yet again.
 

vomhorizon

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Sep 24, 2013
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Android is a very well done open source OS for mobile systems. Its the best in the world at what it offers by a long shot. Will it forever remain the best in the world? Not likely, things change and it all depends upon execution. Tizen may take years to get to a point where some of android's OEM"s can look to offer a wider range of phones with Tizen. That may happen 5 years down the road or may take longer.
 

Oletros

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Jul 27, 2009
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so none of that happened? hes making up all of it?

Just some examples:

Today, Samsung is saying that it will similarly transition from Android to its own Tizen operating system
Completely wrong, in fact Samsung has said nothing like that and he has put on hold Tizen smartphones

Google reintroduced a derivative version of Java Mobile running on Linux, branded as Android. Initially, the new phone platform was aimed at hobbyists. But by 2009, it began to gain attention from major manufacturers who had, up to that point, been struggling to get Sun's official Java Mobile to work.
Wrong, Android is not a derivative of Java Mobile and never was aimed at hobbyists.

And Samsung's success hasn't been due to using Android; it's quite clearly due to using Apple's designs.
And this is just a plain lie

Google's packaging of a revamped Java Mobile on top of Linux has rebranded the generic platform that existed before it, but it hasn't been able to maintain the same industry dominating market share.
Wrong with the Java Mobile thing and wrong with Android not achieving dominance

Security isn't a core value for Android. Google's ideological bent toward "openness" precludes real security,
Wrong, openness doesn't means less security

was the same year that Google completely failed to launch an ambitious new Android 5.0 to counter Apple's own significantly new iOS 7 release.
Plainly wrong, Android version numbers have not the same structure than iOS ones

and its Android platform based on its outdated notion of applets running on a Java-like virtual machine.
Wrong, Android is not running applets on a Java-like virtual machine.

And this is just scrapping the surface, Daniel Eran Dilger is just a biased person that tries to accommodate reality to his own agenda bending facts or plainly lying when it is necessary.


idk, it makes perfect sense to me and is well backed up.

No, it is not well backed up and perhaps just makes perfect sense if you live in the Appleinsider alternate reality.

all i know is, android premiums are stagnant and the rest arent making much money. it makes sense for samsung to differentiate itself from the rest. vertical integration is the next logical step. this time not only touchwiz.

Yes, because dropping Google services makes a lot of sense for Samsung
 

Lloydbm41

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Oct 17, 2013
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Central California
so none of that happened? hes making up all of it?

idk, it makes perfect sense to me and is well backed up.

all i know is, android premiums are stagnant and the rest arent making much money. it makes sense for samsung to differentiate itself from the rest. vertical integration is the next logical step. this time not only touchwiz.

then we'll exchange one open source os with another yet again.
Google and Samsung came to a deal several months ago and one of the main points was competition from Google in hardware and Samsung with software. Samsung agreed to stop some of the useless Google app copying and Tizen OS, since Google was no longer a potential hardware threat. (In other words, no reason for Samsung to continue development of Tizen, since their only threat in the phone market is now out of the picture.)

Editorial comments from Re/code in January:
It’s perhaps no coincidence that Google and Samsung recently announced a huge 10-year patent sharing agreement, which will help the two companies avoid patent disputes between themselves (and better fight patent battles with others).
According to technology publication Re/code, the two companies have reached an agreement where Samsung will no longer replicate Google’s core apps on its Galaxy devices. The report does not specify which Samsung apps are getting the axe, but it seems that at the very least that the Samsung Media Hub would get the boot as a competing app store and content repository. Samsung’s browser, email and calendar may also be likely for the cutting block.
A developer with knowledge of the Tizen project's progress recently told Re/code it has basically been neglected over the past couple of months, even by its biggest backer in Samsung. Hence it is unlikely Samsung can break off from Google with its own operating system any time soon.
 

MRU

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All we know is that they likely will experiment this year with a tizen based device / handset based on a current flagship. If the rumours are to believed.

Experimenting with one device doesn't mean a switch to tizen is likely or plausible. The galaxy round is another experimental device that has moved out of its one territory launch zone, but likewise doesn't equate to every phone now releasing with flexible displays.

So Samsung does indeed launch experimental devices, however with tizen they first have to release a device that has to get into the hands of third party developers. Until that happens I don't see them releasing a device for consumers.

So whilst the rumours keep saying they will experiment with tizen on a device it could quite simply be the Gear 2 this year, and the only handset with Tizen coud be a S4 hardware based device intended for developers, not consumers ...

All this is based on rumour and conjecture which of all is utterly fallible however. We will wait and see, but as I see it 1) ruling out a tizen handset could be foolhardy but 2) expecting a commercial release of a phone handset with a experimental operating system is just as foolhardy.

Expect the Gear devices this year to be the commercial experimentation of Tizen. One which end users will be barely aware of the devices OS ..
 

beosound3200

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 23, 2010
684
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thanks for replying

Completely wrong, in fact Samsung has said nothing like that and he has put on hold Tizen smartphones
yet it uses tizen on its latest gear devices, after using android on the first generation

Wrong, Android is not a derivative of Java Mobile and never was aimed at hobbyists.
ok, android uses dalvik vm, along with lawsuits from oracle. in which language programmers mostly code for android? close enough to me? but this isnt the point. the point is that android is just a continuation of symbian as a cost effective, communal software platform, but with noticeably lower market share and almost no profit to its manufacturers, except samsung. the author is just putting todays situation in a larger context. do you agree with that?

and android wasnt aimed at hobbyists even before it was bought by google? really? at what was it aimed then? they were purposely building it to be running on millions of low end mainstream devices?

well, that could explain why they chose java in the first place.

also, android looked and felt much different before the introduction of the iphone.

And this is just a plain lie
after those documents leaked, i thought it was general consensus that samsung is obviously copying apple, down to the battery charger. i guess you missed that?

Wrong with the Java Mobile thing and wrong with Android not achieving dominance
android achieved dominance, but not absolute. unlike symbian, it looses in high end segment, the one earning money. nobody except samsung is making money in android world, as opposed to symbian world.

Wrong, openness doesn't necessarily means less security
i fixed that for you :)

Sundar Pichai: We cannot guarantee that Android is designed to be safe, the format was designed to give more freedom.
you can say this is out of context, but this is a basic principle of android. i cant respect that. also, look at the malware etc. stats.

and if you consider android openness and the amount of malware with the slow pace of updates, you get potentially most insecure platform. they cannot get the latest updates to more than a few percent of installed user base. do you view this as a problem?

Plainly wrong, Android version numbers have not the same structure than iOS ones
so 4.3 to 4.4 was pretty much the same or similar to ios 6- 7?

android development is pretty slow-paced lately dont you think? someone, also at the apple insider, claims thats because google is replacing android with chromeos, more in line with everything else the company does. also a good article. what do you think?

Wrong, Android is not running applets on a Java-like virtual machine.
no? so android is not java-like vm? its not running apps in virtual machine? dont grasp at straws over technicalities please

And this is just scrapping the surface, Daniel Eran Dilger is just a biased person that tries to accommodate reality to his own agenda bending facts or plainly lying when it is necessary.
you could be right. or you could be biased also.

but biased or not, hes the only one giving us somewhat logical conclusions to facts, along with historical context. if you can link to another article speaking of the same or similar subject, i would be grateful.

No, it is not well backed up and perhaps just makes perfect sense if you live in the Appleinsider alternate reality.
its backed up pretty good and is in major points based on facts. of course, much of it is based on reasoning, but i dont see anyone painting a different picture while making sense at the same time. again, if you have some sources, id be interested in reading, please post them. or write something yourself :)

Yes, because dropping Google services makes a lot of sense for Samsung
does having tizen exclude google services?

does having tizen gives samsung more control over os and updates?

transfering to tizen (sooner or later) would be a given for me a few months ago.

but they signed some kind of licensing agreement so they obviously have some kind of deal going on. so basically every reason that could steer samsung to tizen could be covered in that agreement.

but what im saying is,

in theory, samsung could transfer every handset to tizen with similar skin in one night and 90% people wouldnt even notice. just like they did with android, right?

the benefits of in-house software are obvious - vertical integration, further hardware & software marriage. some could even say it would enable them to more effectively copy apple - look at the latest samsung app updates.

possibly faster and longer updates to its os, enhancing security which is a big problem for android due to the insultingly slow updates.

maybe most important of all is that samsung obviously thinks tizen is better in some regards than android considering they are using it in gear devices. maybe power consumption?

i think tizen remains a viable option for samsung amid increasingly apparent need for vertical integration. but remember, just my 2 cents :)
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
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thanks for replying



yet it uses tizen on its latest gear devices, after using android on the first generation



ok, android uses dalvik vm, along with lawsuits from oracle. in which language programmers mostly code for android? close enough to me? but this isnt the point. the point is that android is just a continuation of symbian as a cost effective, communal software platform, but with noticeably lower market share and almost no profit to its manufacturers, except samsung. the author is just putting todays situation in a larger context. do you agree with that?

and android wasnt aimed at hobbyists even before it was bought by google? really? at what was it aimed then? they were purposely building it to be running on millions of low end mainstream devices?

well, that could explain why they chose java in the first place.

also, android looked and felt much different before the introduction of the iphone.



after those documents leaked, i thought it was general consensus that samsung is obviously copying apple, down to the battery charger. i guess you missed that?



android achieved dominance, but not absolute. unlike symbian, it looses in high end segment, the one earning money. nobody except samsung is making money in android world, as opposed to symbian world.



i fixed that for you :)

Sundar Pichai: We cannot guarantee that Android is designed to be safe, the format was designed to give more freedom.
you can say this is out of context, but this is a basic principle of android. i cant respect that. also, look at the malware etc. stats.

and if you consider android openness and the amount of malware with the slow pace of updates, you get potentially most insecure platform. they cannot get the latest updates to more than a few percent of installed user base. do you view this as a problem?



so 4.3 to 4.4 was pretty much the same or similar to ios 6- 7?

android development is pretty slow-paced lately dont you think? someone, also at the apple insider, claims thats because google is replacing android with chromeos, more in line with everything else the company does. also a good article. what do you think?



no? so android is not java-like vm? its not running apps in virtual machine? dont grasp at straws over technicalities please



you could be right. or you could be biased also.

but biased or not, hes the only one giving us somewhat logical conclusions to facts, along with historical context. if you can link to another article speaking of the same or similar subject, i would be grateful.



its backed up pretty good and is in major points based on facts. of course, much of it is based on reasoning, but i dont see anyone painting a different picture while making sense at the same time. again, if you have some sources, id be interested in reading, please post them. or write something yourself :)



does having tizen exclude google services?

does having tizen gives samsung more control over os and updates?

transfering to tizen (sooner or later) would be a given for me a few months ago.

but they signed some kind of licensing agreement so they obviously have some kind of deal going on. so basically every reason that could steer samsung to tizen could be covered in that agreement.

but what im saying is,

in theory, samsung could transfer every handset to tizen with similar skin in one night and 90% people wouldnt even notice. just like they did with android, right?

the benefits of in-house software are obvious - vertical integration, further hardware & software marriage. some could even say it would enable them to more effectively copy apple - look at the latest samsung app updates.

possibly faster and longer updates to its os, enhancing security which is a big problem for android due to the insultingly slow updates.

maybe most important of all is that samsung obviously thinks tizen is better in some regards than android considering they are using it in gear devices. maybe power consumption?

i think tizen remains a viable option for samsung amid increasingly apparent need for vertical integration. but remember, just my 2 cents :)
As you only copy what Daniel Eran Dilger write without any single argumentation it is clear that the discussion is worthless
 

0000757

macrumors 68040
Dec 16, 2011
3,893
842
Sidestepping this whole subargument with that crazy "journalist"...

I think Samsung could achieve some marketshare with Tizen. At this point, Samsung is now up there with Apple in the sense of brand recognition. People no longer see Samsung as "an Android" as they would a few years ago. People now make the clear distinction between "Apple, Samsung, and Google". People compare iPhone vs. Galaxy, not just iPhone vs. Android.

Samsung is definitely large enough to begin cutting off their ties with Android and creating their own brand. If they can get the proper app support, they could even eclipse Windows Phone.
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
the benefits of in-house software are obvious - vertical integration, further hardware & software marriage. some could even say it would enable them to more effectively copy apple - look at the latest samsung app updates.
Theoretically, yes. In practice, Samsung has to be one of the worst (competing hard with Nokia here...) mobile companies when it comes to writing software that works and is easy to use.

And then there's the fact that what has Samsung really got to win here? They are to Android what Nokia is to WP. Developing an OS is not cheap, and giving it freely away to your competitors is not a viable business model. I also do not think that Samsung could pull of Tizen all alone. I don't think that Samsung has any better chance of pulling of Tizen that Nokia had with Meego.
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
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Premià de Mar
Sidestepping this whole subargument with that crazy "journalist"...

I think Samsung could achieve some marketshare with Tizen. At this point, Samsung is now up there with Apple in the sense of brand recognition. People no longer see Samsung as "an Android" as they would a few years ago. People now make the clear distinction between "Apple, Samsung, and Google". People compare iPhone vs. Galaxy, not just iPhone vs. Android.

Samsung is definitely large enough to begin cutting off their ties with Android and creating their own brand. If they can get the proper app support, they could even eclipse Windows Phone.
Problem is this, app support, can you imagine what people will say when they bought apps or Google services are not there in the Tizen smartphone?

And I don't know where you are, but here in Spain people talks about iPhone, Android and WP, not Samsung.