Is the 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro the right choice for my needs?

[Mr MM]

Thank you for the suggestion.

I have looked at the Sony Vaio Z and I considered it. It is a very thin and light laptop, weighs less than a 11-inch MacBook Air, despite being a 13-inch laptop with a dual or quad core standard voltage processor. It could have been a real killer. I have seen it a couple of times at FastShop and Fnac stores here in São Paulo.

However, I have to say I gave it up for some reasons.

First, I learned that Sony is going to discontinue this model, probably due to low sales. So, there will be no Vaio Z powered by Haswell. Sony will likely focus on the crappy Vaio T instead.

Second, the version sold here in Brazil still uses Sandy Bridge, and was not updated to Ivy Bridge. In the US, the Vaio Z got the Ivy Bridge processor, but I guess it is pretty much unavailable. I could not find it at a Sony store when I was in the US in October last year.

Third, I found the keyboard to have short key travel and poor tactile feedback. As I am a typist, I would prefer to have a laptop with a more comfortable keyboard.

Fourth, I have read that it has some heating issues. It should be no surprise, as Sony managed to put a standard voltage processor in such a small case.

The one in the paulista mall is a z13, the last year model.

Sony has indeed discontinued the model. Pure and simple the Z line was never affordable, they always started around 2k, always in the same size, and sporting extreme quality display (aside the viewing angles and the res the Z 1080p screen is in another level of quality, color accuracy, gamut)

But I agree with your points regarding the keyboard, not to mention the touchpad

Never had any problems with the last years model the Z2

 

[skaertus]

The one in the paulista mall is a z13, the last year model.

Sony has indeed discontinued the model. Pure and simple the Z line was never affordable, they always started around 2k, always in the same size, and sporting extreme quality display (aside the viewing angles and the res the Z 1080p screen is in another level of quality, color accuracy, gamut)

But I agree with your points regarding the keyboard, not to mention the touchpad

Never had any problems with the last years model the Z2

Yes, pretty much that. It is a shame Sony discontinued it.

I've just came out of a FastShop store where I was taking a look at the laptops. Very disappointing offers.

Sony Vaio Z is not for sale anymore, and the Sony Vaio S doesn't feel very solid. Vaio T and Dell XPS felt better constructed, but had dreadful keyboards. The Asus Taichi (and interesting concept with two screens) had an OK keyboard and trackpad, but the screens were so heavy that the upper part would bend over.

The Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga was well-built, and had a good touch display (although only 1600x900) and good keyboard and trackpad. Definitely the better offering among Windows alternatives. But it was sold at the same price as the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro (US$ 3,000), which has superb build quality.

 

[Mr MM]

Yes, pretty much that. It is a shame Sony discontinued it.

I've just came out of a FastShop store where I was taking a look at the laptops. Very disappointing offers.

Sony Vaio Z is not for sale anymore, and the Sony Vaio S doesn't feel very solid. Vaio T and Dell XPS felt better constructed, but had dreadful keyboards. The Asus Taichi (and interesting concept with two screens) had an OK keyboard and trackpad, but the screens were so heavy that the upper part would bend over.

The Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga was well-built, and had a good touch display (although only 1600x900) and good keyboard and trackpad. Definitely the better offering among Windows alternatives. But it was sold at the same price as the 13-inch retina MacBook Pro (US$ 3,000), which has superb build quality.

I saw it the other day, great build quality, reasonable screen, loved the clementine orange.

interesting note I found the ideapad Yoga quite heavy for its intended purpose, which is also a tablet. Despite being a little bit lighter than the rmbp.


Sincerely Im on your same quest to find a portable decently build, usable input output. In the end I think Im going to either wait for haswell, or go for skylake, since its when the igpu is going to get revamped. The longer that I wait the longer the possibility of a quad core and 16gb of ram.

 

[Applefanboy8153]

Get a rMBP 256GB SSD, buy apple care for extending life, and sell it after 2 years so you get a good price!

 

[skaertus]

I saw it the other day, great build quality, reasonable screen, loved the clementine orange.

interesting note I found the ideapad Yoga quite heavy for its intended purpose, which is also a tablet. Despite being a little bit lighter than the rmbp.

The IdeaPad Yoga is the best ultrabook I have seen so far. The IPS screen is very good, I only wish it had a higher resolution. It is quite light for a laptop. However, it has its shortcomings as a tablet, such as the added weight and the fact that the keyboard cannot be hidden. I would only consider it as a laptop and not as a tablet...

I have not yet seen so many premium ultrabooks so far, as offers here in Brazil are quite limited. The Acer Aspire S7, the Dell XPS 13, the Samsung Series 9 (1st generation) and the Asus Zenbook (1st generation) were probably the best I could find around here, but all of them had some trade-offs that turned me down. I have not yet had the chance to see the Zenbook Prime in person, but I guess it should be pretty similar to the Taichi, in terms of display, keyboard and trackpad, right?

Sincerely Im on your same quest to find a portable decently build, usable input output. In the end I think Im going to either wait for haswell, or go for skylake, since its when the igpu is going to get revamped. The longer that I wait the longer the possibility of a quad core and 16gb of ram.

Definitely, the longer you wait, the better.

But Skylane is scheduled to be released in 2015 only. Haswell is not even out yet, and expected for June 2013. As Haswell has already been delayed, expect Broadwell (Haswell's 14 nm shrink) to be released no earlier than June 2014. And wait Skylane for June 2015. Note that Intel has not kept its schedule in the latter years. Should it have kept it, Haswell would have been released in January 2013.

It is a little too early to know the improvements that Skylane architecture will bring. I have not yet seen anything about it yet. I guess quad-core mobile processors and 16 GB RAM should be mainstream by 2015 or 2016, but that is just the natural evolution of computers, and such specs may be required by then. As for the GPU, Haswell will bring a dramatic improvement over Ivy Bridge, and Broadwell will represent an even bigger improvement over Haswell, as far as I know. But I do not know what Skylane will bring.

But, seriously, are you really waiting 2 and a half years to buy a new computer, not even knowing which improvements to expect?

----------

Get a rMBP 256GB SSD, buy apple care for extending life, and sell it after 2 years so you get a good price!

Actually, despite the prices being sky-high, there is not a developed second-hand market here in Brazil. As for Apple Care, I am not willing to pay an additional US$ 320 over the already steep price of the retina MacBook Pro (the 256 GB version costs US$ 3,500 here).

 

[Joseph Farrugia]

Screen size.

Screen size was a deciding factor in my decision to get the 15" version of the MBP.

 

[Wolfpup]

...

If you're interested in games at all, avoid Intel's video. I'd prefer to avoid them even just for the basics. And a Geforce GT 650m kind of has issues with the resolution on that 15" retina model, let alone Intel's video

Also be aware that not all TN screens are remotely alike, nor are IPS. Apple uses pretty high quality TN screens on the Macbook Pros, much better than what you may be used to from cheaper TN models. (Other companies use high quality displays too but of course the low end systems use cheap ones.)

 

[Mr MM]

The IdeaPad Yoga is the best ultrabook I have seen so far. The IPS screen is very good, I only wish it had a higher resolution. It is quite light for a laptop. However, it has its shortcomings as a tablet, such as the added weight and the fact that the keyboard cannot be hidden. I would only consider it as a laptop and not as a tablet...

I have not yet seen so many premium ultrabooks so far, as offers here in Brazil are quite limited. The Acer Aspire S7, the Dell XPS 13, the Samsung Series 9 (1st generation) and the Asus Zenbook (1st generation) were probably the best I could find around here, but all of them had some trade-offs that turned me down. I have not yet had the chance to see the Zenbook Prime in person, but I guess it should be pretty similar to the Taichi, in terms of display, keyboard and trackpad, right?

they are very similar, the problems with the zenbooks is the keyboard, touchpad, wifi, lack of QA and some other stuff

Definitely, the longer you wait, the better.

But Skylane is scheduled to be released in 2015 only. Haswell is not even out yet, and expected for June 2013. As Haswell has already been delayed, expect Broadwell (Haswell's 14 nm shrink) to be released no earlier than June 2014. And wait Skylane for June 2015. Note that Intel has not kept its schedule in the latter years. Should it have kept it, Haswell would have been released in January 2013.

It is a little too early to know the improvements that Skylane architecture will bring. I have not yet seen anything about it yet. I guess quad-core mobile processors and 16 GB RAM should be mainstream by 2015 or 2016, but that is just the natural evolution of computers, and such specs may be required by then. As for the GPU, Haswell will bring a dramatic improvement over Ivy Bridge, and Broadwell will represent an even bigger improvement over Haswell, as far as I know. But I do not know what Skylane will bring.

But, seriously, are you really waiting 2 and a half years to buy a new computer, not even knowing which improvements to expect?

that was actually my bad, I meant broadwell, I was reading some stuff on skylake and mixed up both, but yes, I will probably wait until 2014 or even 2015 to buy a new notebook.

As you pointed out, the second hand market of pcs in brazil is really lacking so, I keep the machines that I have till the point that they should be relegated for support pcs. So by 2015 I will have a 4 year old pc, thats it, the world is not going to end, but my back really could appreciate something

 

[Wolfpup]

1.They all come with cheap plastic. not a good build quality

Plastic doesn't mean bad built quality, but there are lots of systems with various materials if that's what you prefer.

2.They all come with unwanted software like office trial and amazon application after I paid so much for the laptop they are trying to earn more on me.

Depends on what you buy. Typically cheaper systems include more of this kind of stuff. I don't mind particularly if it means cheaper prices, can just reinstall the OS or remove the programs. Lots of systems ship with nothing like this though or can be configured without it.

3.They all come with sucky trackpad

Depends on the unit. Apple's are above average though I think.

4.Lots of unnecessary software that improve bluetooth, wifi etc. this software should be part of the OS and I should not see them.

Here I have no idea what you're talking about. "Software to improve bluetooth and wifi"? No idea what that means. Maybe prior to Windows XP...

5.Last part is Windows. bad out of box experience, should work for my computer more than i work for myself, lots of pop ups and 3rd applications that other installations pushing for you (also toolbars). also IE is a nightmare.

You already mentioned the "extra' stuff installed" thing, which just depends on the system.

And how is IE a "nightmare"? It's a fine browser. You don't have to use it. I wouldn't use Safari as my main browser either, but I don't see how it's an issue one way or the other.

[quote[and you can always use parallels[/quote]

Depends what you need it for. Virtualizing an OS doesn't yield very good performance.

 

[skaertus]

If you're interested in games at all, avoid Intel's video. I'd prefer to avoid them even just for the basics. And a Geforce GT 650m kind of has issues with the resolution on that 15" retina model, let alone Intel's video

Also be aware that not all TN screens are remotely alike, nor are IPS. Apple uses pretty high quality TN screens on the Macbook Pros, much better than what you may be used to from cheaper TN models. (Other companies use high quality displays too but of course the low end systems use cheap ones.)

I am not interested in playing games. I do have a desktop PC with a Core i7-870 2.93 GHz with an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 which I bought back in 2010, but I have not used it for playing games in more than a year now (almost two years).

I have heard of scrolling problems with the 15-inch retina model, but I also read that it was due to software, and not hardware, and that the issues were fixed with an update of OS X.

However, I would like some advice. I do have a white MacBook with an integrated Intel GMA X3100 video card. It is able to handle basic tasks. But when I connected an external monitor to it (with a 1680x1050 resolution), the video performance was just dreadful. I understand that integrated video cards came a long way from then and that they are much better now. However, I would like to know whether I may have similar problems to run daily tasks with an HD 4000 on a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro. I do not intend to play games or to edit videos, but I will not tolerate any lag in web browsing or word processor, even if I have several windows or tabs opened (which I always do - I am a heavy muti-tasker).

 

[robvas]

I am not interested in playing games. I do have a desktop PC with a Core i7-870 2.93 GHz with an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 which I bought back in 2010, but I have not used it for playing games in more than a year now (almost two years).

I have heard of scrolling problems with the 15-inch retina model, but I also read that it was due to software, and not hardware, and that the issues were fixed with an update of OS X.

However, I would like some advice. I do have a white MacBook with an integrated Intel GMA X3100 video card. It is able to handle basic tasks. But when I connected an external monitor to it (with a 1680x1050 resolution), the video performance was just dreadful. I understand that integrated video cards came a long way from then and that they are much better now. However, I would like to know whether I may have similar problems to run daily tasks with an HD 4000 on a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro. I do not intend to play games or to edit videos, but I will not tolerate any lag in web browsing or word processor, even if I have several windows or tabs opened (which I always do - I am a heavy muti-tasker).

I have run my 13" rMBP with dual 1080p external monitors hooked up and it ran fine.

You're never going to be 100% lag free because of the web browsers work - it's not the hardwares fault.

 

[skaertus]

I have run my 13" rMBP with dual 1080p external monitors hooked up and it ran fine.

You're never going to be 100% lag free because of the web browsers work - it's not the hardwares fault.

Really? But do you have any lagging issues?

Is this lag software-related in the sense that even a 15-inch cMBP with a GT 650 would have the same problems?

 

[skaertus]

they are very similar, the problems with the zenbooks is the keyboard, touchpad, wifi, lack of QA and some other stuff

Thank you. The Zenbook Prime seemed to be a very good ultrabook. Unfortunately, it appears that Asus has screwed it up with a not so good keyboard and touchpad, as I was afraid...

My sister does have a 1st generation Zenbook and, while I think it has a good display, the keyboard has too little key travel. The Zenbook Prime, the second generation, improved a lot over that, with a much better keyboard, but I have not tested it yet. Have you tested it?

Perhaps I should rule it out then...

that was actually my bad, I meant broadwell, I was reading some stuff on skylake and mixed up both, but yes, I will probably wait until 2014 or even 2015 to buy a new notebook.

Broadwell is supposed to have a better GPU than Haswell. But the CPU will not see any big performance improvement, as it is only a die shrink. Battery life will increase a little bit, as always.

As you pointed out, the second hand market of pcs in brazil is really lacking so, I keep the machines that I have till the point that they should be relegated for support pcs. So by 2015 I will have a 4 year old pc, thats it, the world is not going to end, but my back really could appreciate something

Yes, that is pretty much it. I currently have a 2008 white MacBook (which I have recently revamped with more RAM and an SSD; it is blazing fast now); a 2010 custom-built desktop; and a 2011 Sager laptop. And I will buy another laptop in 2013!

 

[skaertus]

You know I've been a windows user for a long time. Every laptop and PC I had were the top high end laptops and I noticed few things that bothered me :

1.They all come with cheap plastic. not a good build quality

Most of them actually do. However, I found some of them to have a good build quality. The Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga, the Dell XPS and Inspiron lines, the Asus Zenbook and Taichi, the Samsung Series 9 and the Acer Aspire S7, among others, all have a good build quality. But I agree the MacBooks feel more solid overall.

2.They all come with unwanted software like office trial and amazon application after I paid so much for the laptop they are trying to earn more on me.

That is not too much of an issue for me, as I just format the system after I buy.

3.They all come with sucky trackpad

As far as I am aware of, the trackpad in the MacBooks is unmatched. However, I found some trackpads on Windows laptops to be pretty good as well. In addition, several Windows laptops now have touch screens.

4.Lots of unnecessary software that improve bluetooth, wifi etc. this software should be part of the OS and I should not see them.

Some laptops really come with this kind of stuff.

5.Last part is Windows. bad out of box experience, should work for my computer more than i work for myself, lots of pop ups and 3rd applications that other installations pushing for you (also toolbars). also IE is a nightmare.

Out-of-the-box experience is not really too much of an issue for me. It is really annoying to have 3rd party applications trying to install toolbars and so on.

What really bothers me on Windows is the fact that it gets slower over time. OS X does get a little slower too, but Windows gets to the point to which it becomes nearly impossible to use.

Does Windows 8 behave like that too? I had some hope that Microsoft would fix that. Windows 8 looks very snappy.

So I'm not sure why you want to keep windows it's only bring headache at least to me and you can always use parallels but do it only if you need a software that does not work great on mac (some of them are not designed for mac).

My real issue is Microsoft Office. If Microsoft has ever done anything right, it is Microsoft Office for Windows (not for Mac). Office 2013 is a joy to use, and boosts my productivity. Office 2011, on the other hand, is crap.

So now that you summed it up I think you should buy a mac, 13 inch is good if you like it (it's the same as I have).
good luck you don't need windows for your needs..

Thanks for the advice. Actually, I do need Windows, and that is the real issue.

 

[Wolfpup]

What really bothers me on Windows is the fact that it gets slower over time. OS X does get a little slower too, but Windows gets to the point to which it becomes nearly impossible to use.

Does Windows 8 behave like that too? I had some hope that Microsoft would fix that. Windows 8 looks very snappy.

Not sure what you mean by that. I've never never noticed anything with Windows getting slower, save just that programs get more demanding over time.

 

[skaertus]

Not sure what you mean by that. I've never never noticed anything with Windows getting slower, save just that programs get more demanding over time.

I meant, registry becoming corrupt over time, and things like that...

 

[skaertus]

How bad is Windows 8 running under BootCamp on a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro?

I know there are no drivers for the trackpad, so most of the multi-touch gestures would not be used.

I have read that boot times were not the best when compared to similar laptops. How true is this?

I have also read that battery life would take a hit. How long does the battery run under Windows 8? Is the battery life any worse than a typical ultrabook?

 

[Mr MM]

How bad is Windows 8 running under BootCamp on a 13-inch retina MacBook Pro?

I know there are no drivers for the trackpad, so most of the multi-touch gestures would not be used.

I have read that boot times were not the best when compared to similar laptops. How true is this?

I have also read that battery life would take a hit. How long does the battery run under Windows 8? Is the battery life any worse than a typical ultrabook?

I can answer some of your questions:

1) touchpad, it works, its going to be usually better than average on what you expect on a windows pcs, but its going to be worse than the experience in osx. The basics works, like 2 finger scrolling

2) boot times on win 8 are much better than on win 7. You can install win 8 in UEFI mode and dont have to deal with the usual 30-40s, there is a guide here on one that I made on notebook review forums

3) battery life is usually lower by 2-3h, the problem here is that I have a 10h battery life on my mbp 13 2011, so its still a very fucntional battery life, for rmbp 15 users this is much more complicated

 

[Wolfpup]

I meant, registry becoming corrupt over time, and things like that...

Never had that happen...nothing like that should happen

 

[skaertus]

I can answer some of your questions:

1) touchpad, it works, its going to be usually better than average on what you expect on a windows pcs, but its going to be worse than the experience in osx. The basics works, like 2 finger scrolling

OK. So it is a similar experience than with an ultrabook? Does it support the multi-touch trackpad gestures of Windows 8 or not yet?

2) boot times on win 8 are much better than on win 7. You can install win 8 in UEFI mode and dont have to deal with the usual 30-40s, there is a guide here on one that I made on notebook review forums

How do I find your guide?

3) battery life is usually lower by 2-3h, the problem here is that I have a 10h battery life on my mbp 13 2011, so its still a very fucntional battery life, for rmbp 15 users this is much more complicated

So do you get 7 hours running Windows 8 on battery on your 13-inch rMBP?

 

[Mr MM]

OK. So it is a similar experience than with an ultrabook? Does it support the multi-touch trackpad gestures of Windows 8 or not yet?



How do I find your guide?



So do you get 7 hours running Windows 8 on battery on your 13-inch rMBP?

1) what multi touch gestures you are talking about, there is basically scrolling in win 8, I havent noticed another, I recently bought for my sister a Lenovo S405, and there is really nothing there, though it might be the budget status of the model

2) http://forum.notebookreview.com/app...tion-installing-windows-without-bootcamp.html

3) yes, although you have to see that im mostly text based consumption model, to achieve 10h of battery life in OSX is also a feat, but yes I get by, I also use low backlight and no kb backlight at all. And I told you its based on the 2011 mbp 13, not my non existing rmbp 13 (did have a rmbp 15, sold it though)

 

[Mr.Outside]

Have you considered a Pixel?

 

[skaertus]

1) what multi touch gestures you are talking about, there is basically scrolling in win 8, I havent noticed another, I recently bought for my sister a Lenovo S405, and there is really nothing there, though it might be the budget status of the model

Basically these gestures: http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/windows-8-tip-use-trackpad-multi-touch-gestures

Is there support for these gestures with Windows running on a Mac?

2) http://forum.notebookreview.com/app...tion-installing-windows-without-bootcamp.html

Thanks, I will take a look.

3) yes, although you have to see that im mostly text based consumption model, to achieve 10h of battery life in OSX is also a feat, but yes I get by, I also use low backlight and no kb backlight at all. And I told you its based on the 2011 mbp 13, not my non existing rmbp 13 (did have a rmbp 15, sold it though)

OK. So battery life should be in the range of most ultrabooks under Windows 8...

----------

Have you considered a Pixel?

Actually, no.

I cannot rely on having things only on the cloud. Too unreliable, especially here in Brazil, where 3G networks are overcrowded. And there is no LTE available yet...

In addition, I want to run Windows, so I can run Microsoft Office in all its splendor, and I cannot install Windows on a Chromebook Pixel (or perhaps I can, but there are no drivers written for it, so experience will probably be poor).

 

[skaertus]

I've taken a look at my options here and the top contenders would be the 13-inch MacBook Pro with retina display and the ThinkPad Helix (yet unreleased). But I am leaning towards the Mac, as long as there are appropriate drivers to run Windows 8 (and any subsequent update) well. The Helix will ship for the same price as the 13-inch MacBook, and it will have a slower processor, a lower-resolution display, and not the same level of quality materials. I wouldn't change the qualities of the Mac for a touch-screen, the alleged battery life, and the convertible form factor... which are basically Helix biggest advantages over the Mac, at least as I could tell.

The Asus Zenbook Prime Touch, the IdeaPad Yoga, the Microsoft Surface Pro, the Dell XPS 12, and the Samsung Series 9 are other options I would consider. But I guess there are not too many options in this range. If only the Series 9 had the 2560x1440 display Samsung showcased in August last year... but, despite being more than 6 months, it is still unreleased yet.

 

[B...]

I've taken a look at my options here and the top contenders would be the 13-inch MacBook Pro with retina display and the ThinkPad Helix (yet unreleased). But I am leaning towards the Mac, as long as there are appropriate drivers to run Windows 8 (and any subsequent update) well. The Helix will ship for the same price as the 13-inch MacBook, and it will have a slower processor, a lower-resolution display, and not the same level of quality materials. I wouldn't change the qualities of the Mac for a touch-screen, the alleged battery life, and the convertible form factor... which are basically Helix biggest advantages over the Mac, at least as I could tell.

The Asus Zenbook Prime Touch, the IdeaPad Yoga, the Microsoft Surface Pro, the Dell XPS 12, and the Samsung Series 9 are other options I would consider. But I guess there are not too many options in this range. If only the Series 9 had the 2560x1440 display Samsung showcased in August last year... but, despite being more than 6 months, it is still unreleased yet.

10.8.3 (just released) now has drivers to run Windows 8!