iPhone 13 Pro Is the f/2.8 on the telephoto really a problem?

[ericthered926]

Don’t omit the details. Fill us in on how you are now stuck in a contract with a service provider, who’s up charging your service costs to pull money from you in another fashion, all while making you think you aren’t paying for your new shiny phone.

I’m not stuck in a contract. No need to be so cynical either. I own my 12 Pro free and clear. Best Buy is offering me $800 trade in value towards a new phone (they’re adding $125 to the value as a bonus, but it’s not over bill credits or anything). The new ones are marked down by $100. So I pay $199.99 + tax (not on the full value, just the 199) out of pocket for the max and I will own the phone free and clear. No contract. No nothing. It would be $99.99 if I got the regular pro and not the max. Believe it or not, its possible to have nice things, even the newest, and make responsible decisions with money. I love my 12 Pro but it absolutely makes more sense to upgrade. Also, I’m on a T-Mobile plan that’s $170/month for 11 lines of unlimited. I’d say I’m all around winning 🤷‍♂️ I look forward to my “downgraded and overpriced” telephoto lens.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

The value of full sized camera lenses has nothing to do with paying Apple a yearly salary for a phone that’s 95% identical to the one you overpaid for last year.

Nonetheless, some people are bad with money, and some aren’t. Some people end up incredibly wealthy, and some don’t.

Enjoy your new phone that takes pictures indistinguishable from last years model.

You sound pretty bitter about people buying phones in general. Why lurk around these forums?

I’ve noticed the improvements each year and considering I use my phone camera more than my FF DSLR because it’s always with me, I will gladly pay a few hundred every year or other year for an improvement in low light and dynamic range. Your improvement per dollar is much greater investing that money in a new phone camera compared to what you get putting that money towards professional camera gear. For 200-300$ you are looking at some nice memory cards for your real camera setup, nothing that could remotely improve your image quality.

I’ve taken pictures with my phones that could easily convince people I shot it with my FF setup. You are completely underestimating how good these cameras are getting and just how important a shift computational photography is.

 

[tis]

You sound pretty bitter about people buying phones in general. Why lurk around these forums?

I’ve noticed the improvements each year and considering I use my phone camera more than my FF DSLR because it’s always with me, I will gladly pay a few hundred every year or other year for an improvement in low light and dynamic range. Your improvement per dollar is much greater investing that money in a new phone camera compared to what you get putting that money towards professional camera gear. For 200-300$ you are looking at some nice memory cards for your real camera setup, nothing that could remotely improve your image quality.

I’ve taken pictures with my phones that could easily convince people I shot it with my FF setup. You are completely underestimating how good these cameras are getting and just how important a shift computational photography is.

I just bought a phone myself, so keep assuming baseless facts. It makes you look extremely credible.

Pictures taken with iPhones from year to year are rarely much better. If anything, they are different.

A pocket camera with a larger lens such as a Sony RX100 absolutely smokes any iPhone produced to date. I can tell the difference instantly.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

I just bought a phone myself, so keep assuming baseless facts. It makes you look extremely credible.

Pictures taken with iPhones from year to year are rarely much better. If anything, they are different.

A pocket camera with a larger lens such as a Sony RX100 absolutely smokes any iPhone produced to date. I can tell the difference instantly.

You should keep that RX100 in your pant pockets all the time and brag about it on smartphone forums.

 

[dapa0s]

No. The #1 ranked Smartphone on dxomark.com has a tele lense with 3.5 aperture.

dxomark is absolute ********, and no one takes it seriously.

 

[tis]

You should keep that RX100 in your pant pockets all the time and brag about it on smartphone forums.

Or, I could do what rational people do. Bring it with me when picture taking is important, instead of trying to justify a new phone yearly for an indistinguishable difference from an inferior smartphone camera.

The phones and camera bumps are getting bigger every year. Soon, you won't have an excuse not to just carry a good point and shoot camera instead of a brick of a phone that takes questionable pictures to begin with.

Did you forget this statement already, or are you backtracking just one post later?

"I’ve taken pictures with my phones that could easily convince people I shot it with my FF setup. You are completely underestimating how good these cameras are getting and just how important a shift computational photography is."

I think you knew that was an extreme stretch as you were typing it. If a good point and shoot can stomp on an iPhone (and they do), a full frame camera surely will.

 

[audiotunesx]

It's a tough choice. I'm old school and earlier this year explored a Panasonic ZS200 point and shoot, and Sony AX53 camcorder. Cons I found: high price tags, not great battery life, limited format/compression options, small low lit screens, and not something easy to carry around. Even worse, I'd still need to carry around a phone anyways and mine is quite old. In truth, it's also tough for me to afford all 3 (~$3000). I saw rumors that apple could somehow take the pro max cameras and cram them into the smaller pro. Waited until last week, and wow it actually happened with the 13. That's a lot of always available comfortable convenience in ones pocket, with a relatively good price tag. Downside for me: goodbye zoom/color accuracy/detail, and worse yet the 12 pro max YT comparisons to s21u have trained me to identify the common 12 pro max flaws in the pics/videos. So in the end I've chosen budget/compromise, but will still compliment the guys hauling around a Sony a9.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

Or, I could do what rational people do. Bring it with me when picture taking is important, instead of trying to justify a new phone yearly for an indistinguishable difference from an inferior smartphone camera.

The phones and camera bumps are getting bigger every year. Soon, you won't have an excuse not to just carry a good point and shoot camera instead of a brick of a phone that takes questionable pictures to begin with.

Did you forget this statement already, or are you backtracking just one post later?

"I’ve taken pictures with my phones that could easily convince people I shot it with my FF setup. You are completely underestimating how good these cameras are getting and just how important a shift computational photography is."

I think you knew that was an extreme stretch as you were typing it. If a good point and shoot can stomp on an iPhone (and they do), a full frame camera surely will.

A point and shoot is much thicker and less convenient compared to a phone. The gap is also getting smaller and smaller in performance every year with the advances in computational photography. If you want any proof just look at how that market segment is doing (hint, its getting slaughtered by smartphones and has been for years).

I meant what I said in regards to me being able to show people some phone shots and convince people it was shot with my DLSR. These phones take fantastic pictures these days and in good conditions can legitimately hold their own. Having that kind of power in something that is always on you is a photographers dream.

I'll always have my larger camera when I am planning on shooting, but for everyday life a good smartphone is an invaluable tool. The new wide setup on the 13P will be noticeably better than the 12P due to the larger sensor and better lens. Just as you would notice an upgrade if you were buying a new camera body (which would be far more expensive than someone trading in a 12P for a 13P I might add). If I'm capturing an important life moment, I want any additional light/detail I can get. So not worth it to you, but worth it to me and a lot of people like me.

 

[tis]

A point and shoot is much thicker and less convenient compared to a phone. The gap is also getting smaller and smaller in performance every year with the advances in computational photography. If you want any proof just look at how that market segment is doing (hint, its getting slaughtered by smartphones and has been for years).

I meant what I said in regards to me being able to show people some phone shots and convince people it was shot with my DLSR. These phones take fantastic pictures these days and in good conditions can legitimately hold their own. Having that kind of power in something that is always on you is a photographers dream.

I'll always have my larger camera when I am planning on shooting, but for everyday life a good smartphone is an invaluable tool. The new wide setup on the 13P will be noticeably better than the 12P due to the larger sensor and better lens. Just as you would notice an upgrade if you were buying a new camera body (which would be far more expensive than someone trading in a 12P for a 13P I might add). If I'm capturing an important life moment, I want any additional light/detail I can get. So not worth it to you, but worth it to me and a lot of people like me.

The market segment for cameras declining doesn’t suggest, or prove, that iPhone cameras are better. It’s a reflection that they are good enough for most people when the convenience is factored in. There is nothing wrong with that.

Every paragraph you type contradicts the last. So all these people that are only used to seeing iPhone pictures, because they aren’t willing to buy a better dedicated camera, get fooled by your iPhone pictures when you lie to them by suggesting they were taken with a DSLR. How surprising! People with no experience with high level photography are fooled by an iPhone picture.

The same thing happened in the music industry. Compressed MP3’s were forced upon the world based on convenience, and file size. Now, 20 years later, more and more people are realizing their old records and CD’s sound so much better, due to them containing more information, so now we have lossless hi-res finally becoming prominent.

There is nothing wrong with using your iPhone camera, nor upgrading your phone, but when you upgrade every year simply because you think you need a slightly better convenience based camera, think twice.

 

[Menneisyys2]

I’m not stuck in a contract. No need to be so cynical either. I own my 12 Pro free and clear. Best Buy is offering me $800 trade in value towards a new phone (they’re adding $125 to the value as a bonus, but it’s not over bill credits or anything). The new ones are marked down by $100. So I pay $199.99 + tax (not on the full value, just the 199) out of pocket for the max and I will own the phone free and clear. No contract. No nothing. It would be $99.99 if I got the regular pro and not the max. Believe it or not, its possible to have nice things, even the newest, and make responsible decisions with money. I love my 12 Pro but it absolutely makes more sense to upgrade. Also, I’m on a T-Mobile plan that’s $170/month for 11 lines of unlimited. I’d say I’m all around winning 🤷‍♂️ I look forward to my “downgraded and overpriced” telephoto lens.

Wow! *envy* - we in Europe have nothing like this...

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

The market segment for cameras declining doesn’t suggest, or prove, that iPhone cameras are better. It’s a reflection that they are good enough for most people when the convenience is factored in. There is nothing wrong with that.

Every paragraph you type contradicts the last. So all these people that are only used to seeing iPhone pictures, because they aren’t willing to buy a better dedicated camera, get fooled by your iPhone pictures when you lie to them by suggesting they were taken with a DSLR. How surprising! People with no experience with high level photography are fooled by an iPhone picture.

The same thing happened in the music industry. Compressed MP3’s were forced upon the world based on convenience, and file size. Now, 20 years later, more and more people are realizing their old records and CD’s sound so much better, due to them containing more information, so now we have lossless hi-res finally becoming prominent.

There is nothing wrong with using your iPhone camera, nor upgrading your phone, but when you upgrade every year simply because you think you need a slightly better convenience based camera, think twice.

The point and shoot market has been replaced with phones because they are convenient and work well enough for the same purpose for non-professionals. My point was that if you aren't pixel peeping that a phone shot can look just as good as a DSLR shot on most platforms that we share photos on now. People aren't blowing up their photos and printing billboards. I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that computational photography has exponentially closed the gap between smartphone cameras and stuff like the RX100. The crazy power of these phones means they can do insane stuff behind the scenes and render images that far exceed a standard photographic process with the same sensor/lens combination.

If someone uses their phone as a primary camera and knows what they are doing, who are you to say its not worth upgrading for a larger sensor and bigger lens? I didn't buy the 12, but am upgrading from my 11 to the 13 and will 100% be noticing the improvements. Additionally stuff like night-mode on my 11 was a massive upgrade from my X.

 

[tis]

The point and shoot market has been replaced with phones because they are convenient and work well enough for the same purpose for non-professionals. My point was that if you aren't pixel peeping that a phone shot can look just as good as a DSLR shot on most platforms that we share photos on now. People aren't blowing up their photos and printing billboards. I don't know why it's so hard for you to comprehend that computational photography has exponentially closed the gap between smartphone cameras and stuff like the RX100. The crazy power of these phones means they can do insane stuff behind the scenes and render images that far exceed a standard photographic process with the same sensor/lens combination.

If someone uses their phone as a primary camera and knows what they are doing, who are you to say its not worth upgrading for a larger sensor and bigger lens? I didn't buy the 12, but am upgrading from my 11 to the 13 and will 100% be noticing the improvements. Additionally stuff like nightmare on my 11 was a massive upgrade from my X.

You’ve proven your lack of knowledge for photography. Just as every full framed camera/lens of the same spec doesn’t look the same, nor do all pictures shot with the same pixel density. Pictures shot with different equipment look different without being blown up.

I can, without a doubt, tell which of my photos are shot with my RX100 vs my phone. I don’t need to blow them up, nor do a comparison. It’s that big of a difference. Ignorance is bliss, however. Ignore it as long as you can.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Additionally stuff like nightmare on my 11 was a massive upgrade from my X.

FYI: the spellchecker's done a funny mistake

 

[Menneisyys2]

You’ve proven your lack of knowledge for photography. Just as every full framed camera/lens of the same spec doesn’t look the same, nor do all pictures shot with the same pixel density. Pictures shot with different equipment look different without being blown up.

I can, without a doubt, tell which of my photos are shot with my RX100 vs my phone. I don’t need to blow them up, nor do a comparison. It’s that big of a difference. Ignorance is bliss, however. Ignore it as long as you can.

I'd say, for a trained eye, the differences are obivous even w/o zooming in. The visibly stronger sharpening even iPhones apply (and then I didn't even mention Samsung, which practically ruins their photos with oversharpening, at least it used to do) when compred to a decent DSLR shot is immediately visible.

Nevertheless, phone shots are indeed "good enough" for the masses (99% of the people).

 

[wilberforce]

The aperture value is almost useless unless you know the size of the sensor. As far as I know, nobody outside apple knows the sensor size behind the telephoto on the iPhone 13 Pro.

We do indirectly know the relative sensor size for the primary (wide) sensor. All sensors are 12 megapixels, and:
Iphone 13 Pro/Max: 1.9μm pixels
Iphone 12 Pro Max: 1.7μm pixels
Previously: 1.4μm pixels

But yes, it seems we don't know the pixel size for the telephoto lens.

 

[wilberforce]

(deleted)

 

[btrach144]

What is the pupil size for the 13 pro Max?

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

You’ve proven your lack of knowledge for photography. Just as every full framed camera/lens of the same spec doesn’t look the same, nor do all pictures shot with the same pixel density. Pictures shot with different equipment look different without being blown up.

I can, without a doubt, tell which of my photos are shot with my RX100 vs my phone. I don’t need to blow them up, nor do a comparison. It’s that big of a difference. Ignorance is bliss, however. Ignore it as long as you can.

I’ve made money shooting professionally so I’m pretty comfortable with my skill level, but I appreciate the concern. I started with film and learned developing my own prints. I'm well versed with most major systems and up until a few years ago knew all the little differences with the DR/ISO/structure of the various sensors, but stopped following once Sony started dominating everything.

All you’ve done is argue against yourself and respond to things I’ve never said. I'm not arguing that there isn't a benefit to larger dedicated systems, but the computational photography benefits have been dramatically increasing the quality of smartphones lately while camera systems are generally pretty stagnant in terms of their advances. The wide sensor in the 13P is huge compared to the 11P that I am switching from and it's going to be great for low light situations where the older phones struggled in due to sensor size.

Heres one of my favorite football shots at F2.8, am I saying this could be done on a phone? Absolutely not 😂

 

[TrueBlou]

You should keep that RX100 in your pant pockets all the time and brag about it on smartphone forums.

As my second most used lens, I keep my 200mm in my pocket at all times, just in case. It’s weird though, for some reason I can’t fathom, the women who come home with me from nightclubs alway look oddly disappointed. Meh, who knows.

 

[wilberforce]

As far as I know, nobody outside apple knows the sensor size behind the telephoto on the iPhone 13 Pro.

From dpreview:

All Apple iPhone 13 and 13 Pro camera upgrades: Explained

This year's iPhone 13 lineup is all about bigger sensors and faster lenses. Apple managed to cram the 12 Pro Max camera into the 13 Mini this year, and have stepped up the game with its largest sensor ever.

www.dpreview.com

 

[matejphoto]

From dpreview:

View attachment 1840461

All Apple iPhone 13 and 13 Pro camera upgrades: Explained

This year's iPhone 13 lineup is all about bigger sensors and faster lenses. Apple managed to cram the 12 Pro Max camera into the 13 Mini this year, and have stepped up the game with its largest sensor ever.

www.dpreview.com

Dpreview is probably right but they dont have official info from apple either. You can see explanation from the author on how he figured out the sensor sizes in the comments on dpreview.

 

[wilberforce]

Dpreview is probably right but they dont have official info from apple either. You can see explanation from the author on how he figured out the sensor sizes in the comments on dpreview.

Agree. In this field, Rishi is smarter and more knowledgeable than most, though

 

[matejphoto]

Agree. In this field, Rishi is smarter and more knowledgeable than most, though

Totally, I expect him to be correct which means that the sensor size did not change in the telephoto.
What I find odd then is that why is the telephoto lens so big? Maybe it doesn't have to be, they just made it big so it looks nice on the back.

I find it surprising that most of the big youtubers are not talking much about the telephoto lens. To me it is as important as the main lens, I can a lot of portraits of my kids.

 

[allenvanhellen]

This is true, but having a device that takes near-high quality camera photos on you at all times is very helpful since lugging around a DSLR everywhere at all times is not really possible.

Which is why I’d prefer to have one lens on my iPhone with a big sensor. No bump. Let it be a phone that happens to take very decent snapshots.

 

[3Rock]

I had both a Polaroid and a point-and-shoot canon camera a while back and these smart phones are way better and for the majority of we little people, it is a wonderful camera to own plus you can even talk on it. 😄