Is the iPad or Tablets in general good value?

[TrollToddington]

get rid of the chip.

I beg your pardon? English is not my mother language, could you be kind and explain what you mean?

The BBC "News" was simply reporting that physical books sales have been increasing year on year for the last few years. You mentioned books I reported that despite your assertion that book sales are doomed the evidence doesn't support your assertion and now you expand the argument into music and pictures?

You seem to be picking random words from my post. I clearly stated the tablets in the form of iPad are a new market which has only just appeared. Compared to the population which (still) read books, 40 millions iPads (or so) are like a drop in a sea. Of course, the total sales of printed books might be growing but in the long run I think it will begin to shrink.

You might want to check out the volume of eBooks sold during the recent years, too. You might be surprised to learn that for 2010 eBooks make up for 9% of total consumer book sales in the USA - up from 3.31% at the end of 2009.

In January Amazon announced that it was selling 6 Kindle eBooks for every 10 physical books, when both editions are available. Later, in October, Amazon announced that sales of Kindle eBooks had passed sales of hardcover books. Specifically, over the three months prior to October, Amazon said that it had sold 143 Kindle books for every 100 hardcover books.

At the end of October Amazon announced that for its top 10 best-selling books, customers bought the Kindle edition twice as often as the print copy. According to Amazon's VP for Kindle, Steve Kessel, Kindle eBook sales also topped print sales of hardcovers and paperbacks for its top 25, top 100 and top 1,000 bestsellers.

So, actually, my argument is pretty valid.

link to article

 

[Night Spring]

I beg your pardon? English is not my mother language, could you be kind and explain what you mean?

Chip = short for "chip on the shoulder"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_on_shoulder

Not sure why the poster thinks you have a chip, but that's what the phrase stands for.

 

[Lankyman]

mwulf67 writes....... I used to try and drag my laptop around the house with me the bed, the can

Really! you take you laptop to the toilet? Oh, that's too much information and rather unhygienic.

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TrollToddington wrote......... I beg your pardon? English is not my mother language, could you be kind and explain what you mean?

Well the statement you wrote below -

I don't care too much about what the smarts at the BBC claim

In the context you wrote it this would be construed as you being sarcastic as to the source here in the UK. Hope this answers your question.

 

[TrollToddington]

I still do not understand what sarcasm has in common with the expression 'chip on shoulder'. None of the definitions of this idiom use the word 'sarcasm'. I admit I cannot keep up with English slang. Sorry, I retire from this discussion.

 

[Night Spring]

I still do not understand what sarcasm has in common with the expression 'chip on shoulder'. None of the definitions of this idiom use the word 'sarcasm'. I admit I cannot keep up with English slang. Sorry, I retire from this discussion.

Well, since having a chip on shoulder means someone is ready and trying to pick a fight, and sarcasm is one way to pick a fight...

Of course, there are many reasons why one might use sarcasm, with having a chip on shoulder being only one of them, so yeah, I think the OP is leaping to conclusions by accusing you of having a chip.

 

[Ugg]

Don't get me wrong, I do think tablets are a very nice bit of kit, though I remain to be convinced they are the best value solution for your computer needs if it's unlikely they will ever be used other than in your own home. I think they are a far more valuable tool for business than for home consumers, which I believe was their intended market originally.

Value? A laptop or a desktop are going to cost way more than an iPad. An iPad is smaller, uses less electricity, doesn't need a separate keyboard or desk. Can be used anywhere, doesn't take a long time to start up. I think the advantages and even the value are quite clear for home use.

I think (value apart) that the demographic for home users is - mainly browsers, those who use social networking sites, (god help us) the odd email, looking at pics and listening to music i.e. media consumption. Even then I find the screen a bit to small (for me personally). I don't think your average "proper" PC user finds them to be a good alternative to a Desktop/Notebook computer though. Those who say they have now replaced their computer with a Tablet were IMO never really a "true" computer user in the first place.

So it's all about snobbery now, is it? Most people bought 'true' computers first because there were no smartphones or iPads. How many people really use their desktop or laptop to their fullest? I need the larger screen of my desktop for many things but not for everything. I'll use it in the kitchen, much more hygienic than a food smeared cookbook; in the living room while I'm watching TV and at the library to take notes with.

Even if never taken from the house, the portability between a laptop and iPad/Tablet is night and day...I used to try and drag my laptop around the house with me (the couch, the bed, the can, etc), but it was a real pain...it was hot, awkward, uncomfortable, heavy (in relative terms), needed a flat surface for optimal use, had to be plugged in every few hours...with my iPad, taking it anywhere, even within my house, is completely effortless...

Exactly and this is what Steve's vision of computing is all about. Making it as easy to use and ubiquitous as possible. He doesn't want people tied to a desk if they don't need to be. The touch interface doesn't require a mouse or a keyboard or anything other than a finger even babies 'get it'


I'm not sure why the OP is trying to convince himself and everyone else that the iPad is not useful to consumers. He says he doesn't need info on the go, and that's great but many people do and the iPad is to the laptop just like Apple's first suitcase sized laptop was to the desktop. Times change.

 

[Lankyman]

Ugg replies......Value? A laptop or a desktop are going to cost way more than an iPad. An iPad is smaller, uses less electricity, doesn't need a separate keyboard or desk. Can be used anywhere, doesn't take a long time to start up. I think the advantages and even the value are quite clear for home use.

That is your particular criteria for value which isn't necessarily the same as everyone else's, you must recognise that.

However, I can now speak more authoritatively about the iPad. My daughter has been working in Germany for the last week or so and given she has a works provided iPad lent me her own iPad to "play around with" whilst she is away. She has in fact said that she may let me have it permanently given she has her works one now.

I have to say that my first impressions about it being to small, (for me that is) hasn't changed. Example, using this forum, although I can read the posts in standard iPad size I find the text too small and I quickly end up with headache. I also struggle with doing searches or selecting news items etc. i.e. simply hitting the right area of the screen, my fingers are just to large for accuracy. I end up having to zoom in for almost everything. Using Safari in landscape I enlarge the forum replies so that a five or six line post fills most of the screen, so that is one post at a time. Now some may find that excessive but for me it is the most comfortable reading size without inducing a banging headache. I am used to FF set at 120% on a 21.5" screen. Yes I do wear spectacles but only a light prescription so no sarcastic replies about the opticians please.

For me the iPad's best function is Airplay or AirVideo for sending material from my iMac to ATV2 converting flash etc. on the fly.

I find little comfort in squinting and hunching myself over such a small screen whilst sitting on the sofa, far better to sit in my comfortable leather office chair relaxed in front of my iMac in our purpose built home/office. Why would I want to read and answer emails in my own home on an iPad when I could do so on my iMac?

I used the iPad quite a bit for the first few days but the novelty quickly wore off and I've hardly touched it since. The wife was even less enthusiastic, she tried it for around an hour said she didn't know what all the fuss was about and hasn't touched it since.

I can well see that the iPad has a place, especially for business but as a replacement for my iMac or even a Laptop - never.

No doubt a lot of users will disagree but hey I can only go off my own experiences and I have tried to be as objective as possible - for my situation.

 

[Night Spring]

I have to say that my first impressions about it being to small, (for me that is) hasn't changed. Example, using this forum, although I can read the posts in standard iPad size I find the text too small and I quickly end up with headache. I also struggle with doing searches or selecting news items etc. i.e. simply hitting the right area of the screen, my fingers are just to large for accuracy. I end up having to zoom in for almost everything. Using Safari in landscape I enlarge the forum replies so that a five or six line post fills most of the screen, so that is one post at a time. Now some may find that excessive but for me it is the most comfortable reading size without inducing a banging headache. I am used to FF set at 120% on a 21.5" screen. Yes I do wear spectacles but only a light prescription so no sarcastic replies about the opticians please.

>snip<

I find little comfort in squinting and hunching myself over such a small screen whilst sitting on the sofa, far better to sit in my comfortable leather office chair relaxed in front of my iMac in our purpose built home/office. Why would I want to read and answer emails in my own home on an iPad when I could do so on my iMac?

I totally agree about the small font in Safari. Wish Apple would implement an option to resize and reflow the font like in Android.

But as for your office chair being more comfortable than your sofa, well, for most people that's not the case -- my office chair, for instance, is nowhere near as comfortable as my sofa!

But again, I do agree that sometimes, it's easier to use the Mac than the iPad. For instance, I'm typing this post now on my iMac, because typing a post this long is easier on a regular keyboard.

I do agree the iPad isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with people who don't "get" it. I have a friend with two children, but only the son likes the iPad -- mom and daughter think it's nice, but they don't really use it. The son, however, was ectastic when we gifted him with a used iPad 1, and reportedly hasn't put it down since. So it's something that just "clicks" with some people, while others are just puzzled by it, and some might see uses for it, but it isn't for them personaly.

Me, I use the iPad mostly to read -- I don't think I'll ever read a printed book again if I can find a ebooks version, all ebooks apps on the iPad allow font resizing, so I don't ever have to squint again. I also send most web articles to Instapaper -- again, font resizing, as well as no ads! The only thing I haven't found a good solution for is forum reading -- I've tried some forum apps, but found them confusing and hard to navigate. So for now, I just zoom in when I need to, and anyway, MacRumors is the only forum I visit regularly nowadays.

I also take the iPad with me wherever I go. I find that I can get a little work done on it while on the bus or subway, or I can read MacRumors while sitting at a coffee shop (I have the 3G iPad). Above are all examples where taking out a laptop, even the smallest MacBook Air, would be a big fuss, but the iPad can be snapped out and I can be reading or tapping away before I even think about it. I've read a lot of statistics saying iPads are mostly used at home, but to me the value of the iPad is being able to take it out, and it's so thin and light that most times, it's a no-brainer to take it with me, while with a leptop, I wouldn't take it unless I was sure I'd need it.

So if you ask me if things are easier to do on the iPad than an iMac or a laptop, I have to say no. The only thing I find better on the iPad is reading a novel. And if my office chair were more comfortable than my sofa, then who knows, maybe even reading a novel would be better on the iMac! But being able to read things while on the go, and even type out a draft of my work papers from time to time, is why I have the iPad. And also reading on my sofa, since the iPad is cheaper than a super-comfortable office chair would cost me.

 

[Lankyman]

I totally agree about the small font in Safari. Wish Apple would implement an option to resize and reflow the font like in Android.

But as for your office chair being more comfortable than your sofa, well, for most people that's not the case -- my office chair, for instance, is nowhere near as comfortable as my sofa!

But again, I do agree that sometimes, it's easier to use the Mac than the iPad. For instance, I'm typing this post now on my iMac, because typing a post this long is easier on a regular keyboard.

I do agree the iPad isn't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with people who don't "get" it. I have a friend with two children, but only the son likes the iPad -- mom and daughter think it's nice, but they don't really use it. The son, however, was ectastic when we gifted him with a used iPad 1, and reportedly hasn't put it down since. So it's something that just "clicks" with some people, while others are just puzzled by it, and some might see uses for it, but it isn't for them personaly.

Me, I use the iPad mostly to read -- I don't think I'll ever read a printed book again if I can find a ebooks version, all ebooks apps on the iPad allow font resizing, so I don't ever have to squint again. I also send most web articles to Instapaper -- again, font resizing, as well as no ads! The only thing I haven't found a good solution for is forum reading -- I've tried some forum apps, but found them confusing and hard to navigate. So for now, I just zoom in when I need to, and anyway, MacRumors is the only forum I visit regularly nowadays.

I also take the iPad with me wherever I go. I find that I can get a little work done on it while on the bus or subway, or I can read MacRumors while sitting at a coffee shop (I have the 3G iPad). Above are all examples where taking out a laptop, even the smallest MacBook Air, would be a big fuss, but the iPad can be snapped out and I can be reading or tapping away before I even think about it. I've read a lot of statistics saying iPads are mostly used at home, but to me the value of the iPad is being able to take it out, and it's so thin and light that most times, it's a no-brainer to take it with me, while with a leptop, I wouldn't take it unless I was sure I'd need it.

So if you ask me if things are easier to do on the iPad than an iMac or a laptop, I have to say no. The only thing I find better on the iPad is reading a novel. And if my office chair were more comfortable than my sofa, then who knows, maybe even reading a novel would be better on the iMac! But being able to read things while on the go, and even type out a draft of my work papers from time to time, is why I have the iPad. And also reading on my sofa, since the iPad is cheaper than a super-comfortable office chair would cost me.

That's a very fair response for which I thank you, not the usual cry of "burn the heretic" from the evangelists.

Just a few points in response - when our kids flew the nest and we had our spare room made into an office I had two things on my wish list 1. I had always wanted a nice large desk and 2. an executive leather chair, I now have both and yes the chair is really comfortable.

I usually drive to work and we are not allowed to take our own computers into the office or even allowed to have personal phones switched on so that rules out taking an iPad to work. Other than that there is no other situation where I would use a computer outside of my home.

I appreciate you like to use your iPad as an eReader. As much as I love tech I am one of the old school when it comes to books. I love the smell and feel of a book, it's just one of those things, probably an age thing really. However, if I was going to use tech to read books then for me it would have to be the Kindle as I much prefer eInk with no backlit screen.

I think it has to be about your personal needs and circumstances, but as you can see, for my needs an iPad or any tablet hasn't got much appeal. Most of my needs can be met by my iMac and met in a far more comfortable environment than a tablet can provide.

Now if my daughter wants to unload this iPad onto me then I won't say no, but at the same time I doubt it will get a great deal of use.

 

[takeshi74]

Is the iPad or Tablets in general good value?

Depends on who you ask. Like any of the following words and phrases (and this is not an exhaustive list by any means) value is highly subjective:

• Worth
• Best/better
• Worst/worse
• Expensive
• Inexpensive
• Useful
• Useless
• Too big
• Too small

Rather than wonder if something is "in general good value" you need to look at your own needs/wants. Next time, include that information in your OP so the people responding to you have the information that they need to properly respond to you. It seems extremely common for people to phrase subjective questions like this: "Should I buy...?". That question alone does not give enough information. "Should I buy...? I need X, Y and Z. I don't care about A, B and C. I have a budget of $$$." gives people a better idea of your situation. We're not psychic. We only know what you share with us.

I think it has to be about your personal needs and circumstances

Of course. That has always been the case. I really don't understand why so few forum users seem to grasp the concept. Any given person's needs/wants are not universal. It's not the items that are good or bad. It is a matter of finding the best fitting solution for the person. Every option has pros and cons and each person needs to find a solution that strikes a suitable balance for that person. This really applies to anything out there. These should be basic shopping skills that everyone has. The only difference here is that you're looking at tech with more comparison points than other, simpler products that you purchase on a daily basis. If that seems overwhelming then break it down into smaller tasks. Draft up a list of pros and cons for how they pertain to you. Prioritize your lists. Which list items are more important? Which are less important?

 

[Lankyman]

takeshi74 wrote ....... Rather than wonder if something is "in general good value" you need to look at your own needs/wants. Next time, include that information in your OP so the people responding to you have the information that they need to properly respond to you. It seems extremely common for people to phrase subjective questions like this: "Should I buy...?". That question alone does not give enough information. "Should I buy...? I need X, Y and Z. I don't care about A, B and C. I have a budget of $$$." gives people a better idea of your situation. We're not psychic. We only know what you share with us.

and ....... I really don't understand why so few forum users seem to grasp the concept

The original question was posed as a general question on value for money not whether it was value for money for me. Therefore I'm with you on the second of your quotes all the way.

It may have expanded into something slightly different as the thread evolved but that is how threads go. I never ask questions like should I buy, as I'm intelligent enough and old enough to make such decisions for myself.

 

[palpatine]

I know this may prove controversial and I know people will say I'm comparing Apples (no pun intended) with Pears. However, when I look at the price of Tablets in general so not specifically the iPad do those who own them and those who don't consider them to be good value for money? I was browsing the web today, wasting time really, when I just happened to notice the price of the 32gig wi-fi only version here in the UK - £479. This got me doing a bit of mental arithmetic and I started to add on a couple of standard items that I thought you might also need as basics.

To the basic price I added the iPad2 cover i.e. the grey plastic one price £35. I then decided it also needed rear protection so another £20 for the Hypershield (which looks a very good product). Then there's Applecare another £69 so a grand total then of £603. That's almost the price of my Mac Mini and only £396 less than my iMac which is a world removed from an iPad. I haven't even added in the cost of ATV2 if I want to stream wirelessly from the iPad to my flat panel TV.

When I look at what I could get for that money (or have done if I include my mini) then I just think phew! where do they get the prices from.

the relationship between value and price appears to be an extremely complex one that scholars have been debating for a long while now.

part of the problem with your initial question is that you seem to assume that there will be some kind of calculation that will show that ipads are "overpriced," and you even suggest one way of arriving at that conclusion by showing what you get with your mac mini.

some of the responses in this thread have tried to get you to recognize that value is going to be subjective, and it ultimately depends on you.

anyhow, if you define value by the amount of processing power, memory, etc. that you get out of a gadget purchase, then you really ought to be either building tower computers yourself, or purchasing any number of extremely reasonably-priced towers.

there is a reason, though, that many of us prefer to carry around an ipad in our backpack instead of a tower computer (and probably a reason why you chose the mini over a tower), and i don't think the reasons we consider it to be a great value will make much sense to you until you actually give it a try

 

[kage207]

Best and cheapest solution for WHAT? If you want to read in bed, then I think tablets are the bast solution, though perhaps not the cheapest. If you need to type your PhD thesis, then tablets are probably the worst solution, though they could be useful in taking notes at the library. An architect needing to run CAD programs couldn't do it on an iPad, but if he needed to take a bunch of blueprints out to a construction site, putting them on an iPad would be lighter than printing them out or bringing his laptop.

Probably tablets aren't the cheapest solution to anything, but frequently they are the best for some tasks. I think the people who buy tablets today are just willing to pay a premium for convenience.

AutoCAD is on the iPad. It does pair with the program on Mac/PC. Other than that I don't know too much about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agBCYBw6lnQ Check that out. It looks cool. Might be helpful for engineers but I'm CS and don't use that program.

Secondly, iPad is a media product for great reading for websites to wonderful apps to make you laugh, cry and smile. There is more than that of course. I actually use mine for school work and programming. I use NoteShelf for note taking and iAnnotate for reading PDFs. Why not read PDFs in iBooks? Well I did but it sucked. I can take notes, highlight and more in iAnnotate. Basically it's almost a computer but not powerful. The apps optimize that experience you are looking for. If it isn't, then make that app yourself, programming is fun and makes it so when you face a problem on the computer, you can make a solution yourself

EDIT: Also those who complain about text size, use the reader function~ otherwise zoom in.