is the mac pro still the fastest mac?

[Graphis]

No, the retail version of Tiger is PPC only, so you won't be able to install it on a mac pro. Also, all models that are updated after a new OS release are incapable of running previous versions of the OS(which causes endless consternation for corporate users, but....) so if you wait till the model refresh, you won't be able to install Tiger on that machine officially.

Theoretically there could be some hacks to do so, but they would be unsupported, lacking drivers for whatever new hardware is in there, and probably not worth while.

This is slightly worrying news to me: I want to buy an 8-core Mac Pro, but like practically everybody else here, i'd rather wait until the upgrade that MIGHT appear in January before I buy. However, it's vital for my work that all my apps continue to function as normal, and the transition from my old G4 to my new Mac Pro is as smooth and trouble-free as possible. For this reason, I'd prefer to wait for Leopard to be more stable before I install it.
But, if I wait for the MP upgrade, it will most likely have Leopard pre-installed, which might cause me problems. What would be you folks' advice? Buy a current 8-core now (at a bargain price) because it comes with Tiger? Or still wait for the upgrade (that might have more bang for my buck, but could end up being a waste if some apps don't work properly in Leopard)?

Apps vital to my work are Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, QuarkXpress, Poser, Bryce, Painter, Acrobat, DreamWeaver, DataRescue, Word for Mac, and Toast.

 

[TripleCore]

I choose to wait. You know, when I get new systems, I keep the old one around for a couple weeks as a backup. If there are any dealbreakers (i.e working apps I must have to run my business, and don't run on a new machine), then hang on to your system until you get an important application update.

I would check on those apps individually through their respective companies, but I understand Adobe will be updating Acrobat Pro in January to deal with Leopard incompatibilities. Not a deal breaker in my book.

 

[G4DP]

I will say this, I don't care if you love your Mac Pro. I don't care if it can play Crysis. I don't care if you does everything you need it do. I don't care if you think it is plenty fast for anyone. I don't care to hear one word about your opinion on the current Mac Pro. It is irrelevant. It is outdated and I am not going to buy it. So please, give it a rest.

Here Here!

 

[drachenfells]

looks like i have to buy the current mac pro, because my software is not running on leopard... (it will, but this takes too much time).
what do you think, will the current mac pro modell ship with 10.4 installed in january? (after the announcement of the new mac pro when its really outdated..)
or will they be pre installed with 10.5, not able to downgrade? (i don´t mean the next generation of mac pros! i mean the current modell.)

maybe i will wait untill macworld, in the hope that the old mac pros will get much cheaper. anyone may have a guess how much cheaper they will get then?
maybe anyone is remembering what the G5 costed after the mac pro came out?

 

[colinet]

I got my Mac Pro about 10 days before 10.5 came out so it had 10.4 installed. I then got the 10.5 disc for around $10. A friend got a MacBook Pro last week and it also came with 10.4 installed, but the 10.5 'upgrade' was included (you have to have 10.4 installed for it to work even if you are doing a fresh install)

Why not ring Apple and ask them? They are pretty helpful and should be able to tell what which OS is installed. I would guess that after new year 10.5 would be the installed standard (Speaking for and from Australia) though I've no evidence to support that.

I don't understand the post that said once you've installed 10.5 you can't go back and re-install 10.4 - surely if you are doing a clean install you could?

Also, remember that the MacPro has 4 drive bays so I wonder what the possibility of having one drive with 10.5 and one with 10.4 and simply choose your startup disc. Any reason why that wouldn't work?

I've got a spare drive bay (have a Raptor drive for a scratch and current work disc and also an 'image library' drive) so maybe I'll dig out a spare drive and try it, though I dare not yet until I've finished the work I'm currently doing, just in case!! I've got the original 10.4 restore that came with my MacPro.

I've kept my Dual G5, added it to my network and use it for things like scanning while I'm working on my MacPro. No point in trying to sell an old Mac and it's good to know I've got an emergency machine in case of breakdowns or other disasters. Installed latest Epson (4990 - excellent scanner) scanning software alongside 10.5 - works fine.

 

[SkyBell]

I don't see what there is to get or why you feel you and this guy are the only ones that "get it." Yes, they aren't available in quantity... Do you want a cookie for pointing out the obvious?

Yes we know Apple can't release what isn't available. It does not follow however that the Mac Pro isn't outdated, because it is indeed. Regardless of availability (although newegg has them: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=harpertown&x=0&y=0), the existence of something that is indeed better and when we know they are out there (not vaporware), it follows for one to say that the old kit is indeed outdated based on the existence of that technology and its "official-ness."

If it makes you feel better at night to think that it isn't outdated, suit yourself.

I personally don't care if the X1900 can run Crysis. It is outdated, end of story. There exists something that can run it better. Is it supposed to be some sort of comfort or nudge for action? Some people want value for their money and they choose not to be an absolute idiot with their money, which buying a Mac Pro at the moment would be just that, being an idiot.

And again, I don't understand why you and clearly others feel the need to defend the current Pro. It has seen 16+ months without a single revision while the rest of the Apple has seen multiple revisions within that same time frame. Even the Mac Mini.

The only someone(s) who don't seem to get it are you and those others who feel the need to stroke Apple and defend them in their lack of attention to the Pro line in what is clearly and attempt to defend your purchase. I will say this, I don't care if you love your Mac Pro. I don't care if it can play Crysis. I don't care if you does everything you need it do. I don't care if you think it is plenty fast for anyone. I don't care to hear one word about your opinion on the current Mac Pro. It is irrelevant. It is outdated and I am not going to buy it. So please, give it a rest. You can see your way out of these threads as they clearly do not pertain to you. You are welcome to start the "I love my outdated Mac Pro/Blind Apple Fan Boy" club. You will get a few members I am sure.

I beg to differ. The x1900xt was EOL'd by ATI OVER a year ago. The x1900xt is THREE YEARS OLD. The 7300gt is TWO years old. I don't know how old the quadro card is but I know it has been obsolete for QUITE some time. ALL of those video cards are at least two generations behind.

If you insist on defending an outdated (and highly neglected by Apple) product, get your facts straight first.

I don't care how "capable" these OLD, OUTDATED, OBSOLETE cards are of playing "every game out there except Crysis". They have NO place in a machine at this price point.
And defending them is beyond absurd.



Give it a rest. Both these statements are completely FALSE. Processors and video cards ARE available. Get off your high horse.

Holy crap people, why do you care so much about getting "the best"?

Everyone knows no matter how good a computer is, there is always something better out. That's just common knowledge.

I don't know much about video cards, but at some point, you're gonna have to choose to buy the MP or not, with or without an updated video card.

I don't care how "capable" these OLD, OUTDATED, OBSOLETE cards are of playing "every game out there except Crysis".

Why? If it does everything you need, why do you need more? There's no point in complaining about slightly outdated graphics if it fits your needs.

I personally don't care if the X1900 can run Crysis. It is outdated, end of story. There exists something that can run it better.

Indeed there is. But like I said above, if it does what you need, Who cares if it's outdated?

If you're really that anal about it, go buy a PC and shut up.

 

[Roy]

....

Also, remember that the MacPro has 4 drive bays so I wonder what the possibility of having one drive with 10.5 and one with 10.4 and simply choose your startup disc. Any reason why that wouldn't work?

I.......

That should work. I keep an external backup drive hooked to my G4. I can start up from the internal drive or the external one (firewire). When there is a new system update from Apple, then I start up from my external drive, download and update, and then I run the external drive for a few days and try out all my programs and etc. to make sure they work fine with the new update. If the update is fine with my programs, then I startup from the internal drive and download and update the internal drive.

I don't know about whether you can install 10.4 on a machine that shipped with 10.5 installed. Some people have been pretty adamant that you can't and have given some reasons that may be true, but I can't verify that it will or won't.

 

[Wild-Bill]

I don't know much about video cards, but at some point, you're gonna have to choose to buy the MP or not, with or without an updated video card.

Well then you shouldn't be making comments in this thread then, should you?

There's no point in complaining about slightly outdated graphics if it fits your needs

Tell me how a THREE YEAR OLD video card is slightly outdated.

If you're really that anal about it, go buy a PC and shut up.

Again, another useless comment. You (admittedly) know nothing about video cards, so keep your flaming comments to yourself and stay out of threads that don't concern you.

 

[colinet]

There are some smug little nerdy **** geeks on this forum aren't there. I'm sure Apple are hanging on their every word to decide on the specs of new machines.

I thought Mac users were the good guys.

I suppose we could all take Wild Bill's (that name says a lot) advice and NEVER buy ANYTHING because it will be out of date tomorrow.

OR we could just buy the best that is available at the time and get on with our work that is made all that much easier knowing we have the best computers and OS we can get.

 

[dukebound85]

ok heres how i see it

the mp is OUTDATED

to continue selling it at the same price is crazy.

i dont think people would mind if the mp was cheaper due to outdated components

if i pay top dollar, i want the best of the best and this does not mean 3 YEAR OLD cards

 

[colinet]

Sorry, don't agree. I am doing high end massive Photoshop files. My Dual 8 core MacPro with 13 gig ram and an xP1900 card would not be any faster if it had a 'new' graphics card. It's running a 23" Cinema display and a Wacom Cintiq 21" and it flies. Adobe are the holdback with their ridiculous memory limitations. I bought the fastest, best machine available. I could afford to throw the graphics card away and buy the 'state of the art' card, but I'd probably need lab equipment to measure any increase in performance.

You don't buy a MacPro to play games so 'frame rates' is irrelevant. For that you buy a PS3 which is ten times better.

Yeah got one of them too and a PS2 and a PSP and a PS3Eye and a Canon D5 and a Sony HDR-CX7. If I ever get all my work done I'l have some time to play with them all!

The MacPro's price is not an issue. It's called Mac PRO because it's aimed at PROFESSIONALS and therefore it's all tax-deductable - like all my other toys including the brilliant Lego Mindstorms NXT

 

[dukebound85]

Sorry, don't agree. I am doing high end massive Photoshop files. My Dual 8 core MacPro with 13 gig ram and an xP1900 card would not be any faster if it had a 'new' graphics card. It's running a 23" Cinema display and a Wacom Cintiq 21" and it flies. Adobe are the holdback with their ridiculous memory limitations. I bought the fastest, best machine available. I could afford to throw the graphics card away and buy the 'state of the art' card, but I'd probably need lab equipment to measure any increase in performance.

You don't buy a MacPro to play games so 'frame rates' is irrelevant. For that you buy a PS3 which is ten times better.

Yeah got one of them too and a PS2 and a PSP and a PS3Eye and a Canon D5 and a Sony HDR-CX7. If I ever get all my work done I'l have some time to play with them all!

The MacPro's price is not an issue. It's called Mac PRO because it's aimed at PROFESSIONALS and therefore it's all tax-deductable - like all my other toys including the brilliant Lego Mindstorms NXT

i know but the point is you are paying a premium for old components that COULD be updated.

heck the current mp would be WAY overkill for me but thats not the point im trying to make. Im sure SOME people would use/need the better graphics cards

 

[colinet]

i know but the point is you are paying a premium for old components that COULD be updated.

heck the current mp would be WAY overkill for me but thats not the point im trying to make. Im sure SOME people would use/need the better graphics cards

Fair enough, but the pitfall with that is that you end up getting nothing because there's always a rumour that something ten times better will be released next week.

Of course I would like it to have 32 96core processors and I'd like Photoshop to be abler to use as much ram as you made available not a pathetic 3.5gig, but right now I own the best computer in the world.

Hell, I had a BBC model B with 8K of ram and 8 colours and a 100k 5 1/4"floppy drive (actually it was cassettes before that) and it was state of the art as was my $1000 9 pin Taxan printer.

 

[Genghis Khan]

Settle Down!!!

It seems there are two kinds of people in this thread

1) Those who have a Mac Pro/PowerMac

2) Those who haven't and never will

of course there are exceptions, but the first group say that the Mac Pro is fine the way it is, and there isn't anything that makes the hardware work

and the second group say that the Mac Pro hasn't got the best out there and therefore is needs an update

IMHO the second group are fanboys who should stick to saving up enough money for an intel mac

 

[technocoy]

I'll tell you one thing...

I agree whole heartedly that it is absolutely ridiculous that we dont have more access to newer graphics cards.

BUT

That is about the only thing on the MacPro that I would consider outdated.

This machine is the ONLY Mac I have EVER bought that just seems to never run out of horsepower for me. Load that sucker with RAM and some fast drives and it is an amazing thing. My 2.66 with 8gigs is amazing and it's nearly 2 years old!!! I truly can't imagine that there is anything much that "smokes" these machine except in theoretic tests and simulations that 98% of people never do, and those that do wire the suckers up into clusters anyway.

I can't imagine that anyone with an octo-core MacPro has any complaints except for the lame ass overheating x1900.

If you need a MacPro and have the money, there is no reason not to get one. If you have the time to wait, there may very well be a new one released in January, but you MAY be waiting until spring...

 

[Wild-Bill]

There are some smug little nerdy **** geeks on this forum aren't there. I'm sure Apple are hanging on their every word to decide on the specs of new machines.

I thought Mac users were the good guys.

I suppose we could all take Wild Bill's (that name says a lot) advice and NEVER buy ANYTHING because it will be out of date tomorrow.

OR we could just buy the best that is available at the time and get on with our work that is made all that much easier knowing we have the best computers and OS we can get.

Great, another Apple apologist to add to the flock of sheep. I'm glad you find my MR name amusing & are able to make a broad generalization from it.

People like you just don't get it. Why do you come in here and try to sway people who are on the fence to buy a machine that is seventeen months old, hasn't been updated, and comes configured with three-year-old video cards???? Let's not forget the prices are the same as they were when it was introduced........seventeen months ago. You are doing those fence sitters a disservice by blindly defending and recommending a product that has been completely neglected by Apple. And to add insult to injury, you support that course of action with MacWorld about a month away.

And isn't it convenient that most of the smoke throwers that come in threads like this already have a Mac Pro, have had one for some time, and are just trying to make themselves feel better by justifying their purchases.

 

[drachenfells]

ing Apple and ask them? They are pretty helpful and should be able to tell what which OS is installed. I would guess that after new year 10.5 would be the installed standard (Speaking for and from Australia) though I've no evidence to support that.

yeah, that might be a good idea. in germany i recognise that they are not so educated, but i will give it a try.

 

[drachenfells]

here is one question i would love to have your opinion for!:

anyone may have a guess how much cheaper the current macpros will get when the new come out?
maybe a hint is how much in the past old machines differed in price..
maybe anyone is remembering what the G5 costed after the mac pro came out?

 

[colinet]

Great, another Apple apologist to add to the flock of sheep. I'm glad you find my MR name amusing & are able to make a broad generalization from it.

People like you just don't get it. Why do you come in here and try to sway people who are on the fence to buy a machine that is seventeen months old, hasn't been updated, and comes configured with three-year-old video cards???? Let's not forget the prices are the same as they were when it was introduced........seventeen months ago. You are doing those fence sitters a disservice by blindly defending and recommending a product that has been completely neglected by Apple. And to add insult to injury, you support that course of action with MacWorld about a month away.

And isn't it convenient that most of the smoke throwers that come in threads like this already have a Mac Pro, have had one for some time, and are just trying to make themselves feel better by justifying their purchases.

Back on planet Earth. I've had a Mac Pro for about 6 weeks. I bought it because it was the ONLY Mac powerful enough for the work I've just contracted to do. And yes, it is making me feel really good because this terribly old-fashioned out of date antique will earn me more in 10 weeks than most people make in a year.

I don't need to apologise for Apple. They make the best computers and the one I bought is the current top of the range and I couldn't care less what anyone else buys. Nor do I care if Macworld sees an amazing brilliant new machine that you can start slagging off as out of date 8 weeks later.

My MacPro does exactly what I bought it for and it's earning me LOTS of money.

I thought the sheep bought Microsoft stuff.

 

[liquid stereo]

I'm waiting... for better mobos

Though I've not used a MacPro, I'm a fan of the PowerMacs. I have a 2x2G5 with 6GB and 2TB of disk space and aside from the noise, its pretty fast.

I do a lot of simulations and am waiting for the next MacPro release. I want CPUs with as much L2 cache as possible as it greatly improves the performance of my hand-written MPI codes.

While there are many here that wish for better memory cards, I'm hoping Apple will someday start to motherboards with better memory throughput (bandwidth) in mind. The current layout, including the memory controller, is inadequate.

Sean

I agree whole heartedly that it is absolutely ridiculous that we dont have more access to newer graphics cards.

BUT

That is about the only thing on the MacPro that I would consider outdated.

This machine is the ONLY Mac I have EVER bought that just seems to never run out of horsepower for me. Load that sucker with RAM and some fast drives and it is an amazing thing. My 2.66 with 8gigs is amazing and it's nearly 2 years old!!! I truly can't imagine that there is anything much that "smokes" these machine except in theoretic tests and simulations that 98% of people never do, and those that do wire the suckers up into clusters anyway.

I can't imagine that anyone with an octo-core MacPro has any complaints except for the lame ass overheating x1900.

If you need a MacPro and have the money, there is no reason not to get one. If you have the time to wait, there may very well be a new one released in January, but you MAY be waiting until spring...

 

[JeffDM]

I don't need to apologise for Apple.

It sounds like you don't know what "apologist" means. And yes, you are one.

They make the best computers and the one I bought is the current top of the range and I couldn't care less what anyone else buys. Nor do I care if Macworld sees an amazing brilliant new machine that you can start slagging off as out of date 8 weeks later.

My MacPro does exactly what I bought it for and it's earning me LOTS of money.

That's fine, but your previous posts suggest that we shouldn't want something better, that we're being wholly unrealistic or something like that.

I thought the sheep bought Microsoft stuff.

No. Herd mentality is basically everywhere. It's not a "those people" syndrome. It's an "us" problem too.

 

[heatmiser]

No. Herd mentality is everywhere. It's not a "those people" syndrome. It's an "us" problem too.

Thank you. I'm tired or reading this "us" v. "them" nonsense on these boards. One would think a bunch of teenagers made up the majority of the MF community to read these arguments. Making blanket statements like "all Windows sucks" or "Apple is the best" is just unnecessary, not to mention inaccurate. It's a bloody operating system. It shouldn't define you as a human being.

 

[colinet]

Thank you. I'm tired or reading this "us" v. "them" nonsense on these boards. One would think a bunch of teenagers made up the majority of the MF community to read these arguments. Making blanket statements like "all Windows sucks" or "Apple is the best" is just unnecessary, not to mention inaccurate. It's a bloody operating system. It shouldn't define you as a human being.

You're quite right, this is all seriously boring. And yes it is just an operating system in the same way a Lada is just a car. The only difference is that you have to prefix 'just' for Windows and Lada with 'only'

Bored now - back to making money . . .

65 year old who does believe 'Windows' sucks even though I have never owned it - went from Acorn to Mac

 

[psingh01]

Sorry, don't agree. I am doing high end massive Photoshop files. My Dual 8 core MacPro with 13 gig ram and an xP1900 card would not be any faster if it had a 'new' graphics card. It's running a 23" Cinema display and a Wacom Cintiq 21" and it flies. Adobe are the holdback with their ridiculous memory limitations. I bought the fastest, best machine available. I could afford to throw the graphics card away and buy the 'state of the art' card, but I'd probably need lab equipment to measure any increase in performance.

You don't buy a MacPro to play games so 'frame rates' is irrelevant. For that you buy a PS3 which is ten times better.

Yeah got one of them too and a PS2 and a PSP and a PS3Eye and a Canon D5 and a Sony HDR-CX7. If I ever get all my work done I'l have some time to play with them all!

The MacPro's price is not an issue. It's called Mac PRO because it's aimed at PROFESSIONALS and therefore it's all tax-deductable - like all my other toys including the brilliant Lego Mindstorms NXT

Don't tell that to Apple! Guess what they consider the "Ultimate Game" machine? The Mac Pro!

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/

 

[colinet]

Don't tell that to Apple! Guess what they consider the "Ultimate Game" machine? The Mac Pro!

http://www.apple.com/games/hardware/

All that means is that some of the people on this thread must work for Apple! They are speaking a similar load of bollocks!!

Apple could learn a lot of useful stuff to do for the Apple TV from studying the PS3