Is the Macbook Air 13" overpriced?

[ghileman]

ultrabooks

this Toshiba Z830 is getting closer to the Air:

http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...shiba+Z830+Ultrabook+Hands+On+Preview+IDF2011

If something like this can come in for around $900 or less then that should be pretty competitive with the Air.

 

[iRabbit]

• So, are PC laptops better value? Yes

I really disagree with this statement. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find lots of 3 or 4+ year old PC laptops still being used regularly. Go to your local Apple store and watch the Genius Bar for a while... you'll be amazed at how many 4+ year old laptops come in... and those are only the ones with problems (mostly battery issues). I was there yesterday and even watched a PowerBook come in.

Ultimately, I think you NEED to replace your Mac (desktop or laptop) less than half as often. When I was running PC regularly, I was replacing them every 2-3 years. That is not at ALL the case with my Macs. My big MacPro is about 3 years old and I just doubled the ram and will be good to go for likely another 3 years. My husband has two G5s over 5 years old running in his recording studio, and running very well. We have a family-shared white 2005 MacBook that is still going strong... it needed a new hard drive about a year ago and my Apple Store replaced it for me for free. We JUST replaced my daughter's 4 year-old Mac Mini with an iMac, and not because she needed it, just wanted it for her 18th birthday... we're going to hook her old mini up to a TV in our playroom and keep using it, I'm sure, for a few years. And don't even get me started on the amazing service I got from the store yesterday when I had an original 2008, 3 1/2 year old MacBook Air go south. Let's just say I left with a top-of-the-line new MacBook Air with very little pain to my pocket. That amazing service is worth something as well.

Now, I know some of us hardcore Mac fans LIKE to get the newest models when we can, but we don't NEED to... and that's the point. Unless you're a heavy gamer, you likely won't NEED to replace your laptop for 3, 4, or 5 years. My 2005 white MacBook still runs excellent for internet browsing, email, word processing and the occasional photo edit. My husband even reviews video footage on it through iMovie sometimes.

Plus, look at the resale values on Macs... even older ones. If you sell your older one used, you'll get a lot more than you would for a comparable used PC.

I definitely think you not only get a better experience with a Mac, but much more value for the money via good service and longevity.

 

[Young Spade]

I definitely think you not only get a better experience with a Mac, but much more value for the money via good service and longevity.

Just wanting to make sure you know that value is completely subjective. And that you should openly state that this is how YOU feel, not this is how you expect everybody else to.

Just saying; if you don't think that already


In response to OP

Overpriced meaning you'd have to directly compare it to something else or another group.

Personally, for what it gives ME, I think it is. You're paying MORE for something with lower specs. When you could easily spend only 100 bucks more and get a MBP with higher clock speeds, put in your own SSD, and still have a CD drive along with a better screen.

Plus the ability to replace that CD drive with another HD for more storage AND add more RAM.

Or you could throw all of that out for a lower quality screen with higher resolution and lighten your pack by ~2.5 pounds. Which is virtually nothing.

All my opinion of course.

 

[fizzwinkus]

this Toshiba Z830 is getting closer to the Air:

http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...shiba+Z830+Ultrabook+Hands+On+Preview+IDF2011

If something like this can come in for around $900 or less then that should be pretty competitive with the Air.

"There is a substantial amount of frame flex in the screen, so that when you open the notebook up by one edge, you'll be able to see the panel twist a bit as you open it up."

That certainly sounds like a MacBook air competitor - and it's 999, not sub 900

 

[jvmxtra]

It is. But I still so so so want it.. Does it matter?

 

[mountains]

this Toshiba Z830 is getting closer to the Air:

http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...shiba+Z830+Ultrabook+Hands+On+Preview+IDF2011

If something like this can come in for around $900 or less then that should be pretty competitive with the Air.

There was a piece in Ars recently that concluded there wasn't a single viable Windows ultrabook right now that could compete with an Air. Most Windows manufacturers are set to release new notebooks in the next six months, of course, but several of them (Asus, IIRC) said that they can't compete directly with Apple on price.

I don't know what the pricing on your Toshiba is, but I doubt it's $999 for Macbook Air-like specs.

 

[Young Spade]

"There is a substantial amount of frame flex in the screen, so that when you open the notebook up by one edge, you'll be able to see the panel twist a bit as you open it up."

That certainly sounds like a MacBook air competitor.

Toughness vs strength.

You want a good mix of both.

Glass is strong, but not tough. That's why everybody breaks iphones when they drop them.

Plastic is trough, but slightly strong. That is why you can throw a plastic phone (Galaxy S for example) across the room, drop it multiple times, and still have a phone that only has scuffs and not cracks.


But when compared to aluminum, which is strong but also tough, it's a hard sell.

That's why the Thinkpads are made out of that plastic; if you drop it, it will flex and absorb a lot of force, allowing the internals to take less of the hit.

The engineers who design these laptops aren't stupid; they know what they're doing. If you have a MBP (i can't say about the MBA) or an iPad, you'll notice the strip of rubber between the edge of the glass and the aluminum: that's to absorb the shock if you hit the laptop on something, so the glass won't break.

I dropped an iPad from 4 feet onto its corner on concrete. Only a small dent in the aluminum and the rubber was a little deformed. These people know what they are doing.

 

[baaadboy]

Toughness vs strength.

You want a good mix of both.

Glass is strong, but not tough. That's why everybody breaks iphones when they drop them.

Plastic is trough, but slightly strong. That is why you can throw a plastic phone (Galaxy S for example) across the room, drop it multiple times, and still have a phone that only has scuffs and not cracks.


But when compared to aluminum, which is strong but also tough, it's a hard sell.

That's why the Thinkpads are made out of that plastic; if you drop it, it will flex and absorb a lot of force, allowing the internals to take less of the hit.

The engineers who design these laptops aren't stupid; they know what they're doing. If you have a MBP (i can't say about the MBA) or an iPad, you'll notice the strip of rubber between the edge of the glass and the aluminum: that's to absorb the shock if you hit the laptop on something, so the glass won't break.

I dropped an iPad from 4 feet onto its corner on concrete. Only a small dent in the aluminum and the rubber was a little deformed. These people know what they are doing.

While I agree that Macs are overall better machines and offer better overall experience, I frankly don't believe that MBPs are more durable than plastic laptops, mainly thinkpads. My 2010 MBP, developed scuffs and scratches in a couple of months, while my old thinkpad still has no scratches. Yes thinkpad flexes and yes it is ugly, but aluminum!=more durability. Plastic flexes and absorbs a lot of force when dropped and won't bend like MBPs.

 

[mountains]

Aluminum dents, whereas I've seen a Lenovo run over by a car (don't ask) and still function properly. I like aluminum as much as the next guy, but don't pretend that durability is the selling point.

 

[baaadboy]

Aluminum dents, whereas I've seen a Lenovo run over by a car (don't ask) and still function properly. I like aluminum as much as the next guy, but don't pretend that durability is the selling point.

That's exactly what I was trying to say

 

[pgiguere1]

Dude, specs-wise there are DOZENS of PC 13" laptops that deliver more muscle than the 13" MBA at lower price.

Sure, they ain't that pretty. Sure, they ain't that thin or light. And sure, they ain't got OSX (the deal-breaker for me). But specs wise, a PC laptop will always beat a Mac laptop on the same price range.

Not true.

You are comparing two different categories of computers here: Notebooks and Ultrabooks.

It's not just a design thing. They use different processors. That would be like comparing a laptop from brand X and a desktop from brand Y, both at the same price, and assuming brand Y offers more "muscle for the price".

Efficient processors cost more to make. It's not just a matter of how powerful processor is, it's how much power you can deliver with said wattage. Other than the regular desktop processors, you will see the term LV (low voltage) and ULV (ultra low voltage) to define processors. It's unfair to compare processors of different categories. An ultrabook like the MBA needs to use ULV processors to produce less heat and use less battery than your average laptop. It's so thin that there's less airflow and a physically (though not proportionally) smaller battery inside.

Read my other post up there. Windows ultrabooks (aka the thin ones with a ULV processor) are more expensive for less. Try to find ones with better value than the MBA.

 

[Young Spade]

While I agree that Macs are overall better machines and offer better overall experience, I frankly don't believe that MBPs are more durable than plastic laptops, mainly thinkpads. My 2010 MBP, developed scuffs and scratches in a couple of months, while my old thinkpad still has no scratches. Yes thinkpad flexes and yes it is ugly, but aluminum!=more durability. Plastic flexes and absorbs a lot of force when dropped and won't bend like MBPs.

? Are you saying this as a point against my post? Or just as a stand-alone point?

----------

Read my other post up there. Windows ultrabooks (aka the thin ones with a ULV processor) are more expensive for less. Try to find ones with better value than the MBA.

Seeing as value is completely subjective. I could easily say ALL of them.

You have to look at the OS itself as well, not just the hardware. IIRC, some of the Ultrabooks have ram that goes up to 6gbs instead of the 4 cap that the MBA has; that cap was THE reason why I didn't get it.

Judging by RAM alone, one can say the value of ANY ultrabook, regardless of other specs, is higher than that than the MBA if he needs more than 4 gigs of RAM.

 

[Goratrix]

Ultimately, I think you NEED to replace your Mac (desktop or laptop) less than half as often. When I was running PC regularly, I was replacing them every 2-3 years. That is not at ALL the case with my Macs.

If you would be running a PC now, it would be the same. It's not a PC vs. Mac issue, but a general issue, processors and graphics and memory have all gotten to a point where no upgrading is necessary for normal use anymore. The overall landscape has changed. No one (except gamers) needs to replace a PC every 2-3 years now.

 

[Young Spade]

If you would be running a PC now, it would be the same. It's not a PC vs. Mac issue, but a general issue, processors and graphics and memory have all gotten to a point where no upgrading is necessary for normal use anymore. The overall landscape has changed. No one (except gamers) needs to replace a PC every 2-3 years now.

I'd need to replace it if I bought the MBA right now with 2-4 gigs of RAM within 2-3 years.

Sweeping generalizations are not good to make.

I agree with your overall point though.

 

[KPOM]

this Toshiba Z830 is getting closer to the Air:

http://www.notebookreview.com/defau...shiba+Z830+Ultrabook+Hands+On+Preview+IDF2011

If something like this can come in for around $900 or less then that should be pretty competitive with the Air.

The spill-resistant keyboard is a nice feature. I also see it has a built-in ethernet port, though the overall design is a bit thicker since it doesn't taper. It's lighter than the 13" Air, however.

The thing to remember with all of these Ultrabooks is that they are likely to come in a lot more diverse configurations than the MacBook Air. There are 9 configurations of the Air, but all have Core i5 or i7 processors, and all but 1 has 4GB of RAM. We might see designs under $1000, but how many of them will have Core i3s (or slower i5s/i7s), or even use HDDs to achieve that?

 

[Goratrix]

I'd need to replace it if I bought the MBA right now with 2-4 gigs of RAM within 2-3 years.

Yes, and that precise reason makes the MBA useless for a lot of people, including myself My statement still stands, as even $300 notebooks are sold with 4 GB RAM today (and often with another free slot), which will be enough for a very long time. The MBA is an unfortunate exception.

----------

Windows ultrabooks (aka the thin ones with a ULV processor) are more expensive for less. Try to find ones with better value than the MBA.

You are wrong, a ULV does not need to be a ultrabook. There are "normal" windows notebooks available with ULV processors. The "ultrabook" name is only about design.

 

[KnightWRX]

Dude, specs-wise there are DOZENS of PC 13" laptops that deliver more muscle than the 13" MBA at lower price.

Weight and Size are both specifications. Very important ones in the case of the MBA.

Can you please post an example of this 13" laptop that delivers more muscle "spec-wise" than the MBA, including Weight and Size ?

Of course you can't. There aren't dozens. There's barely a few. And let me tell you, they are priced the same as a MBA.

The "ultrabook" name is only about design.

Weight. And. Size.

Both are specs. Both are important. If you don't feel they are, you are not the crowd the MBA is aimed at.

 

[trims]

Just check out Amazon prices for 13 inch laptops packing a Core i5 processor, 4 GB RAM, and 128GB SSD.

For once the Mac turns out to be amongst the cheapest of the bunch!!

 

[minnus]

Weight and Size are both specifications. Very important ones in the case of the MBA.

Can you please post an example of this 13" laptop that delivers more muscle "spec-wise" than the MBA, including Weight and Size ?

Of course you can't. There aren't dozens. There's barely a few. And let me tell you, they are priced the same as a MBA.



Weight. And. Size.

Both are specs. Both are important. If you don't feel they are, you are not the crowd the MBA is aimed at.

Yep, that doesn't disqualify it from being overpriced. If we assign weight and size a value, there are Ultraportables that are faster than the MBA with a .5LB to 2LB difference. The prices of those range from a difference of up to $800 compared to the MBA. Is .5LB - 2LB heavier worth potentially $800?

You can decide whether or not something is overpriced with those factors in mind. Sure, the MBA isn't overpriced compared to itself or machines with near identical specs - but it is overpriced when you consider how much it is you're paying to shave off .5LB.

 

[winston1236]

I think Mac is overpriced, my roommate bought a Leveno for $600+ shipped. 500GB, Intel i7, definitely top of the line. You can't do that with Mac. Windows is money for the bang.

except your roommate doesn't have OSX

 

[deeddawg]

You can decide whether or not something is overpriced [...] but it is overpriced when you consider how much it is you're paying to shave off .5LB.

You were doing well at first... but this last part seems to be a general statement, which in terms of value assessment is rather presumptuous.

We may as well be discussing whether Ben & Jerry's ice cream is worth the cost vs. store-brand ice cream.

In other words: it really doesn't matter. Buy what meets your criteria and if you really need self-justification, look at the market and whether sufficient quantities sell to justify the manufacturer retaining/expanding the product line.

 

[MacinDoc]

Yep, that doesn't disqualify it from being overpriced. If we assign weight and size a value, there are Ultraportables that are faster than the MBA with a .5LB to 2LB difference. The prices of those range from a difference of up to $800 compared to the MBA. Is .5LB - 2LB heavier worth potentially $800?

You can decide whether or not something is overpriced with those factors in mind. Sure, the MBA isn't overpriced compared to itself or machines with near identical specs - but it is overpriced when you consider how much it is you're paying to shave off .5LB.

Sorry, but a 2 lb. weight difference would put a laptop in a totally different class from the Air. It would be like comparing an iPod to an iPad. In the Air, like every single ultraportable on the market, you're paying extra for compact size and minimal weight. Nobody is denying this. You simply can't compare it with a traditional laptop. And other companies have admitted that they can't make a product similar to the Air for a competitive price at this time.

So, if size and weight matter to the OP, then the Air is not overpriced (there really is nothing on the market with better specs in this size/weight category at this price). If only tech specs matter, then a MBP or a Windows notebook would be a better choice.

 

[Young Spade]

except your roommate doesn't have OSX

Which is still up in the air depending on who you talk to. I love it as much as the next guy but moving files and folders around sucks. Especially when you need to look at them and then move them into an appropriate folder.

Each has their pros and cons.

Unless you were joking; in which I would completely agree.

 

[Gregintosh]

Perfect Example of Why MacBook Air is NOT overpriced:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666350153

Look at the specs. 128GB SSD, 4GB RAM, Intel 3000 Graphics, Core i5, 2.5 lbs, Really Thin, etc.

You would think with the "Apple Tax" arguments, this machine would be a few hundred bucks less than a MacBook Air and have better specs, or at least be priced the same, but nope. It's $1,999!

Its the closest thing Sony has to a Macbook Air, yet its $1,999 STARTING price.

Sure, it comes with a dock, and a few extras. Those could be worth something. But otherwise, you could get the exact same specs (other than the processor) on the $1,299 MacBook Air.. and save $700 in the process.

So there's pros and cons, and this machine outclasses the Macbook Air in a couple of categories (mainly due to the included dock) but its PRICED VERY HIGH.

The media docks are around $325-$350 according to a few google searches, which means you are paying ~$1,649 or so for a laptop that has only a somewhat faster processor than an MBA but otherwise does not best the MBA in any other category (same RAM, screen size, close enough resolution, same video card, etc.)

If you compare this to the $1,299 entry level MacBook Air, you are getting the much better value out of the MBA than you are on this Sony machine, to the tune of $350 saved on the same specs (other than the processor, which one might argue is not necessarily a big deal for users who intend to just surf, type documents, etc. and the MBA's processor is certainly no turtle anyway).

And I would still argue the MBA looks better. I have seen this Sony machine in person at a store and it did not look or feel like a premium laptop.

So as you can see by this example, Apple makes competitively priced products and are an excellent value for what you get.

 

[urkel]

I really disagree with this statement. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find lots of 3 or 4+ year old PC laptops still being used regularly.

Huh?!? 3 or 4 years ago is only 2008-09 and there are many many MANY working PCs out there. And also, that "era" of computers were the Core2Duo chips that we've STILL seen in Macs until very recently. And that's because Apple plays leapfrog all the time by releasing something good then sitting back and waiting while the industry catches up and then finally releasing something good again.So if we're going to realistically discuss "value" then it relies heavily on what part of the cycle Apple is in. Right now the SB chips machines are a good value but for that's only because the last two generations were so far behind.

Also, as far as "cheap PC" discussions go, we can't forget that these are priced to be disposable. $300 can get you a well stocked windows notebook with 4GB/500GB and a mediocre processor.But if you plan on upgrading every 18mo then in a 4th period you're up to date and only spending $900-1200 while the Mac equivalent is spending $1200 up front.

I'm not slamming Apple. There is a greater value to Apple products IF you can appreciate the differences. But in reality then those differences are inconsequential to most consumers.